68 replies to this topic

[Redshift2k5]

Helpful if you, for example, have bought a starter pack, Hero mech, or even something like a Project Pheonix pack... and you can't upgrade any of your mechs until you earn a few more million C-bills.

Not everyone has time to grind, if you want to avoid buying CB for cash then simply don't buy it, it's optional.

[Ironwithin]

Halcyon201, on 15 April 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

You could always buy mechs with MC and sell for C-bills before, but this just straight up transitions the game into total pay to win.
Whatever.
You still can't buy GXP or specific mech XP so I'm fine with it.

That's complete BS, you simply get in-game currency faster than having to grind for it. You pay for your time basically.
Pay to win = paying to have an actual in-game advantage over people who play for free without them ever being able to level the playing field..
You can't buy anything that f2p-players can't get too with time and effort (called grinding).

[Grendel408]

Waurgrim, on 15 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I'm not even sure what to think of this. I get the need to create an influx of cash, but the money vs time conversion rate is all over hell's half acre.

Can't you spend about 4,195 MC on a AS7-D-DC (10,486,012 c-bills)? If 4000 MC gets you around 10 million C-Bills worth of Mech shouldn't it get you around 10 million C-bills worth of other stuff as well?

If equipment is so much more valuable than the mechs then up the price of the equipment so we can establish a money vs time conversion rate that allows us to make informed decisions. I get the more money than time aspect, hell, I fall into the category (barely).

This doesn't encourage me to spend more money.

I remember the Devs mentioned something along the lines of if they have to adjust the economics of the game (item prices, etc), they'd have to refund C-bills to the players pool affected by the change. Asking them to do something they stated they clearly wanted to avoid would be a disaster lol cause <insert preferred deity> only knows that would cause some serious issues and the forums would be flooded with complaints regarding that. I know other F2P games have this "real cash for in-game cash" option available... and even then I don't agree with it as it's another reason to show the Free Players that it's better to put real cash into the game to have some (non-game breaking) perks.

[-Halcyon-]

Ironwithin, on 15 April 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

That's complete BS, you simply get in-game currency faster than having to grind for it. You pay for your time basically.
Pay to win = paying to have an actual in-game advantage over people who play for free without them ever being able to level the playing field..
You can't buy anything that f2p-players can't get too with time and effort (called grinding).

Well we have different definitions of pay to win.
I relate it to time vs effort.

[Leguvan]

process, on 15 April 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

This isn't money grabbing. No one if forcing you to pay for any of this. This is a natural extension of the free-to-play model.

Paying for in-game content is supposed to be a convenience for players who have the funds to pay and don't have the time to grind. Not everyone can afford to play for hours just to get one XL350 engine or DDC. Selling expensive equipment isn't much of an efficient strategy in the long-term either.

This move gives you a choice. That is all.

POWR, on 15 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Oh yes, the moneygrabbing of running a business. CURSE THE FOODVENDORS AND THEIR MONEYGRABBING! I NEED FOOD TO LIVE DAMNIT!

This coming from people that have already spent hundreds of dollars on a $40 incomplete game. MWO will end just like Tribes Ascend, one day they will say we're done extorting money from our playerbase, here's the package we should have offered years ago, $60, everything included.

[Ovion]

Onlystolen, on 15 April 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

WOW really? This is the stupidest thing ever, WHY THE HELL would anyone buy into that Crap

Large C-Bills Bundle: 6,500,000 C-Bills for 4000 MC = 1625 cbills per MC

Atlas DDC 10,486,012 C-Bills for 4,195 MC = 2499.65 cbills per MC

lmfao.. wow PGI GG

So you buy the Atlas for MC.
Then for those people that don't want to grind and are happy to throw money at it rather than play to earn, they can purchase C-Bills to get that 1.5mil DHS upgrade, that 100k Endosteel upgrade (if you need it for whatever), ECM if you need it (though selling the Command Console usually sorts that), and whatever guns you want (if you don't care for stock).

It does however, sort of go against the 'no pay to win' thing, as you can now buy everything apart from Mech XP.

[Harathan]

Harathan, on 09 April 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

You know they're just going to allow people to buy C-Bills with MC anyway right?

I called it.

[RayBotiiC]

Grendel408, on 15 April 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I remember the Devs mentioned something along the lines of if they have to adjust the economics of the game (item prices, etc), they'd have to refund C-bills to the players pool affected by the change. Asking them to do something they stated they clearly wanted to avoid would be a disaster lol cause <insert preferred deity> only knows that would cause some serious issues and the forums would be flooded with complaints regarding that. I know other F2P games have this "real cash for in-game cash" option available... and even then I don't agree with it as it's another reason to show the Free Players that it's better to put real cash into the game to have some (non-game breaking) perks.

While I get the point and I do remember the Devs explaining what you've outlined it doesn't change the fact for me that they are adjusting the economy of the game from my perspective.

Up until now I've been comfortable with the concept that the economy is based on time. Time was represented in one of two ways MC or C-Bills. Up until now it seemed that there was a somewhat understandable time to C-Bill conversion rate, but perhaps I'm wrong. Now with these particular MC options for straight C-Bills, at least to me this time to C-Bill conversion rate is all over the place. I get and support time = money, I've literally bought into it.

I just don't want a multitude of conversion rates that don't seem to make much sense. Is the basis of this economy time, or not? It's not EVE... it's not a supply and demand scenario here. They can certainly define it any way they like, but from my perspective if I don't get or I begin to question the logic of their decision based on a the value proposition, then my wallet closes. I've been an active supporter from a monetary stand point.

I'm not everyone and I'm not encouraging anyone to spend or not, I'm just saying that from the perspective of at least one "paying customer" this smells funny and will discourage me from spending further money. The value proposition doesn't work for me here. I'm 100% certain it will work for others so in the grand scheme of thing my opinion is just that, one bloke's opinion.

[Mykaelous Wolf]

They probably spent 200 engineering hours getting this to work.

[POWR]

Leguvan, on 15 April 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

This coming from people that have already spent hundreds of dollars on a $40 incomplete game. MWO will end just like Tribes Ascend, one day they will say we're done extorting money from our playerbase, here's the package we should have offered years ago, $60, everything included.

Meh spare change. Who cares. The money was spent on a dream. A partially realised dream. I have had loads of fun, and it's not the most I've spent on shorter bouts of fun. I can also get more fun in the future from this purchase. Or I could have spent nothing and had my fun. Whichever you choose, it's up to you. And hey, the choice is yours, as it is free. That there is apparently no economy in making a game like this without taking money for it instantly and constantly I would say speaks more of the Mechwarrior franchise than anything else. Too complex for modern gamers, and too complex to properly realise in an online scenario where all your'e going to get is 50 people whining on a forum and 800000 people playing it and having fun.

Your point is moot.

[Selbatrim]

You could let players buy anything available including gxp and it would not be pay to win per se. It would give that player a boost in relation to their elo most likely which would level out after a few rounds.

However, one of the only things MWO has going for it (apart from good stompin fun) is the grind. Some players like grind, some don't. This might make more players stay (and pay).

I've advocated this change myself. Let people buy an engine with MC, but I think I'd rather have an MC store vs Cbill store than buy packages of cbills. Then you could more closely follow the cbill to mc value that sort of exists when you buy mechs.

[Ashrok]

Just... wow... increase the grind over time, then add a direct MC-CBill conversion.

As the chat wheel in Dota 2 goes..

> Well played!

[Ashrok]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Hi all!

I can appreciate some of the concerns brought up by the appearance of these new MC purchase items. First and foremost, this certainly isn't a purchase for everyone. These kinds of exchanges are pretty common in F2P games, and while not every item for purchase is made for every player: our goal is to offer different ways for players to spend their MC the way they see fit.

While I imagine some new players joining their elite friends might wish to speed up the pace of their acquisition of good equipment, I know that I too have been caught in situations where I was just a few CBills short of the upgrade or engine which I wanted right away. While most will be willing to just earn these CBills over time, some, such as myself, only have time for a few rounds a night and want to make the most of the experience. These are just some example ways that this item seems relevant to me.

With that in mind, we ask players to refrain from non-constructive interjections like "money-grab" or "P2W"; as CBills can still be readily acquired for free through a few extra matches. We do appreciate that there are other concerns regarding these items though, so please do let us know what those concerns are in a detailed and civil manner.

What concerns me is that this was never mentioned previously, that this can be taken against the original stance of PGI on how monetization would work, that the CBill economy has been changed multiple times only to be derailed by a direct transaction option. It certainly isn't the ONLY option for CBills, but the fact that its there sends a mixed message. I for one am not fond of this change.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

I work 50 hours a week so I only have the time for like 4 rounds a night. Honestly this seems whatever to me. If you dont like it, dont buy them. Vote with your wallet.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Honestly you would have made more money making the base package 1,500,000 Cbills. Then you would have had the cash crowd going ahead and plopping down on that just to get double heat sinks out of the way.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 15 April 2014 - 02:55 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

Big Daddy Alpha, on 15 April 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

You only sell the atlas for half that so its actuall 1250cbills per mc.

Cheers,
BDA

This, gentlemen, is why PGI needs to consult an economist, if not outright hire one like Valve does.

What's the whole point of having CBills? To buy mechs. Equipment and upgrades, yes, but they are cheap and fairly easy to grind compared to mechs. Mechs are where players need tons of CBills. So why would I buy CBills with MC when I can outright buy the mech with MC?

I'm not criticising the fact you can buy CBills, but that your model is WRONG. You need to give a more CBills per MC compared to mech MC costs.

[Raggedyman]

As long as XP isn't made directly buyably (I know Premium Time boosts the rate you make it but you still have to make it yourself) I have no worries about cbills being available for MC. I doubt I'll buy it personally so I thank those who do for subserdising my gaming.

[Onlystolen]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Hi all!

I can appreciate some of the concerns brought up by the appearance of these new MC purchase items. First and foremost, this certainly isn't a purchase for everyone. These kinds of exchanges are pretty common in F2P games, and while not every item for purchase is made for every player: our goal is to offer different ways for players to spend their MC the way they see fit.

While I imagine some new players joining their elite friends might wish to speed up the pace of their acquisition of good equipment, I know that I too have been caught in situations where I was just a few CBills short of the upgrade or engine which I wanted right away. While most will be willing to just earn these CBills over time, some, such as myself, only have time for a few rounds a night and want to make the most of the experience. These are just some example ways that this item seems relevant to me.

With that in mind, we ask players to refrain from non-constructive interjections like "money-grab" or "P2W"; as CBills can still be readily acquired for free through a few extra matches. We do appreciate that there are other concerns regarding these items though, so please do let us know what those concerns are in a detailed and civil manner.

Usually with these purchases, they are equal in value to something else that you can purchase in game. I started this tread to try and show that the purchase is a value ripoff.

[Roper Band]

Onlystolen, on 15 April 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

LOL the worth of the atlas is MORE plus you are BUYING the atlas not buying it to sell it.

If you sell ANYTHING in this game you lose a lot of money so there is no point to selling anything.

way to make yourself look like you're not that bright there BDA

"cheers"

-only

There are some brutally obnoxious posters on the MWO forums. The whole draw of this deal is that you don't have to "grind" to get weapons and upgrades for your custom mechs. When I first started I purchased a mech with MC and sold it to get more CB's...this actually does work out better. Would I do it again in hindsight? No...but this model does make sense.

[ShadowDarter]

This feels like the first step of a very slippery slope towards pay to win, this is one change that i will honestly call detestable.