68 replies to this topic

[Roper Band]

ShadowDarter, on 15 April 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

This feels like the first step of a very slippery slope towards pay to win, this is one change that i will honestly call detestable.

But there's nothing you can't get from earning CB's? That argument doesn't really make sense. Other games allow you to pay instead of earning content, what makes that an advantage?

[Kesslan]

knightsljx, on 15 April 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

I'm not criticising the fact you can buy CBills, but that your model is WRONG. You need to give a more CBills per MC compared to mech MC costs.

Actucally if anything the ratio should be ideally 1:1 for buying a mech with MC or C-Bills with MC. As it stands right now, from what I understand it's still cheaper to buy and sell certain mechs with equipment for C-Bills than it is to buy any of the C-Bill packages. Ideally they should have just matched it or at least much more closely.

I also agree they should have considered doing a 1.5M package or the like cause some people like me who have spare cash don't want to always grind out 1.5m C-bills for every mech's heat sinks when I already own over 100 mechs. I've ground out plenty of that cash sure, but now and then when I have a few spare $$ I have bought mechs with MC only to sell them so i can quickly upgrade a few mechs to dual heat sinks etc.

[Blue Drache]

Randomm, on 15 April 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I hope there are lots of people out there that do this and help fund this great game.

I'm sorry ... where's this "great game" you speak of?

[xZaOx]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Hi all!

I can appreciate some of the concerns brought up by the appearance of these new MC purchase items. First and foremost, this certainly isn't a purchase for everyone. These kinds of exchanges are pretty common in F2P games, and while not every item for purchase is made for every player: our goal is to offer different ways for players to spend their MC the way they see fit.

While I imagine some new players joining their elite friends might wish to speed up the pace of their acquisition of good equipment, I know that I too have been caught in situations where I was just a few CBills short of the upgrade or engine which I wanted right away. While most will be willing to just earn these CBills over time, some, such as myself, only have time for a few rounds a night and want to make the most of the experience. These are just some example ways that this item seems relevant to me.

With that in mind, we ask players to refrain from non-constructive interjections like "money-grab" or "P2W"; as CBills can still be readily acquired for free through a few extra matches. We do appreciate that there are other concerns regarding these items though, so please do let us know what those concerns are in a detailed and civil manner.

Is gold ammo next? Because some other F2P games have that as well. In the past PGI stated they would never do this as it was P2W.

[Maple Nachiman]

I have no problem with people paying MC for anything I can buy with regular c-bills. If they want to take the easy route, more power to them. Maybe PGI will hire some coders and get some real content added....

[Xoxim SC]

I have actually been hoping for this day to come. As someone who plays VERY casually, it's hard to accumulate the c-bills required to upgrade a lot of the mechs, especially with essentials such as Double Heat Sinks costing so much. My only complaint is the low amount of c-bills per MC/$. They need to hike that number up some so I can purchase some c-bills to customize my Clan mechs >_<

[Roper Band]

Maple Nachiman, on 15 April 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

I have no problem with people paying MC for anything I can buy with regular c-bills. If they want to take the easy route, more power to them. Maybe PGI will hire some coders and get some real content added....

Yeah, I really don't see why people are complaining.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Roper Band, on 15 April 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Yeah, I really don't see why people are complaining.

Because human being will find anything to complain about if it does not conform to their ideals of a traditional game model?

[Kaeb Odellas]

xZaOx, on 15 April 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Is gold ammo next? Because some other F2P games have that as well. In the past PGI stated they would never do this as it was P2W.

What exactly is so P2W about purchasing C-Bills for cash? This is basically "Pay 2 Not Grind", which would certainly be an attractive deal for those with limited time to play. While viable builds can get quite expensive, there's a limit to how powerful you can make a mech just by spending more C-bills on it. Some cash-strapped fool with more money than sense is not going to suddenly dominate every round by buying a billion C-Bills and spending them on upgrading mechs. The only difference between a free player and a whale is the size of their hangar.



Besides, you can already basically do this by purchasing mechs for MC and selling them for C-bills, which I did a lot of back in closed beta when they reset everything every couple of weeks. This just makes the process more convenient.

[RayBotiiC]

Todd Lightbringer, on 15 April 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

I have actually been hoping for this day to come. As someone who plays VERY casually, it's hard to accumulate the c-bills required to upgrade a lot of the mechs, especially with essentials such as Double Heat Sinks costing so much. My only complaint is the low amount of c-bills per MC/$. They need to hike that number up some so I can purchase some c-bills to customize my Clan mechs >_<

Based on the conversion rates of all the packages this day isn't really the one you've been waiting for unless you are simply taking the MC for C-Bills purchase as a sign of better purchasing options to come somewhere down the road. You still get better MC to C-Bill return from buying the JR7-F(C) for MC and selling it for C-Bills. From my perspective I'd never purchase one of these packages as a better value exists. With that being the case why even have them at all?

JR7-F(C): 3,067,911 C-Bills for 1450 MC which gets you 2115 C-Bills per MC
Small C-Bill Bundle: 1,100,000 C-Bills for 800 MC which gets you 1375 C-Bills per MC
Medium C-Bills Bundle: 2,400,000 C-Bills for 1600 MC which gets you 1500 C-Bills per MC
Large C-Bills Bundle: 6,500,000 C-Bills for 4000 MC which gets you 1625 C-Bills per MC

I'm not against the idea of MC for C-Bill packages at all. I actually like the idea, but they have not introduced any options that are better than what we already have available to us. I do frown upon that and I see it as my duty as a member of this community to inform folks of the less than good deal being offered to them. I find attempts to cash in on the new and or uninformed fairly distasteful personally and I hope these packages are not indicative of that. In the end it's IGP/PGI's game, I just play here.

Roper Band, on 15 April 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Yeah, I really don't see why people are complaining.

I'm not against the idea of MC for C-Bill packages at all. I actually like the idea, but they have not introduced any options that are better than the existing MC to C-Bill conversions via the JR7-F(C) which we already have available to us. Granted this isn't the issue everyone is talking about.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 15 April 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

Because human being will find anything to complain about if it does not conform to their ideals of a traditional game model?

Some of the complaints aren't about a traditional game model at all and contribute much more significantly to the discussion and community as a whole than gross generalizations. I'd encourage you read more of the thread and discussion before blindly dismissing feedback.

Edited by Waurgrim, 15 April 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[Javenri]

My initial reaction to this was negative, but after a deeper thinking I recanted. Buying C-bills with MC is not really a problem. Some people will grind* for C-bills and others will pay for them. It will help some players to build up a mech faster; not really a game breaker. Also, it will allow PGI to have some extra funds which is good.
For those who complain about a Pay to WIn game, they probably have never played such a game. I have quit 2 games for being P2W and I can assure you this is not one. The reason is simple: there are only 2 ingame items that someone can buy with MC that can't buy with C-bills (practically the definition of P2W concept) and they are not game breaking. Unless someone thinks that Priority air/artiliery strike are overwhelmingly better compared to normal ones. The equivelant to other P2W games I have played would be to have for example a PPC you buy with normal C-bills and one you buy with MC that has 20% less heat generation or 20% more effective range. Then we could be having the P2W discussion.


* The "grind" of this game is the smallest I have seen for an MMO game. Hardly deserving the name "grind" compared to other games.

[ShinVector]

Anyone got $2,461 to spare ? Instant Cbillionare !

[PhoenixFire55]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 15 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

With that in mind, we ask players to refrain from non-constructive interjections like "money-grab" or "P2W"; as CBills can still be readily acquired for free through a few extra matches.

Yeah, sure. Please do tell me more how just a 'few extra matches' with random horriplayers your matchmaker assigns to my team will earn me any c-bills. Because waiting 10 mins to find each match, that then ends 0-12 to 3-12 at best, and doing it a dozen times in a row will totally make me rich with c-bills.

You wanted constructive feedback? Well, here it is ...
Money-grab. Pay-to-win.

[Dark Aura]

I'll be quite happy to pay a couple of hundred dollars a month in pay to win fees if CW turns out to be decent.

[BigBANGtheory]

I can't seem to buy 4000 MC for 6.5M Cbills, sum ting wong

[Modo44]

This was always possible by purchasing mechs for MC and selling them off. Now the mechanism is simplified and out in the open, so win-win. PGI appears more honest about their business, and people who have more money than sense can spend it easier.

And no, it is not pay to win, only another way to reduce the grind. More immediate, so obviously more costly.

Edited by Modo44, 16 April 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[Lupin]

I see no problem with it if someone wants to fast track getting CBills.

But also seem to remember this was requested/suggested by MWO forum sometime ago.

Well done you got what you asked for, complain about else there's lots to choose from

[Demos]

I don't really see the purpose of the packages at the current level.

Why do you need CBills? Mostly for new mechs, expensive equipment (e.g. XL) and modules.

Interested in a new mech? Buy the respective model for MC --> better Value (2,500CB per MC)
Interested in a XL engine? Buy a mech which carries the required engine for MC (and sell the surplus equipment for CB) --> better value
Interested in a module --> Buy a cheap Champion and sell it (or spend MC for mechs and XL as described above and save the in-game CBs for the modules)

But, but, ... I want a 265XL and no mech have it currently? A: Buy a mech with a 260XL for MC, loss in performance is negligible and you save a lot of money compared to the package "deals".

For the record: definitely no P2W IMHO.

[Ngamok]

Onlystolen, on 15 April 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Usually with these purchases, they are equal in value to something else that you can purchase in game. I started this tread to try and show that the purchase is a value ripoff.

So any smart person would see it as a value ripoff and not purchase. I don't see the big deal here. But hey, there are women out there that buy designer handbags for crazy amounts of money or skin care stuff that does nothing. Or Monster Cable HDMI cables that work no better than off brand stuff. Or expensive cooking oil because LOL that.

xZaOx, on 15 April 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Is gold ammo next? Because some other F2P games have that as well. In the past PGI stated they would never do this as it was P2W.

Gold ammo that does X more damage will kill this game completely.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Waurgrim, on 15 April 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Some of the complaints aren't about a traditional game model at all and contribute much more significantly to the discussion and community as a whole than gross generalizations. I'd encourage you read more of the thread and discussion before blindly dismissing feedback.

I've actually been following since the beginning. That was more or less directed at the people complaining that this is a pay-to-win scenario when it obviously isnt. Buying c-bills isn't going to kill the game. This isn't going to give anyone an obvious advantage in combat, so those complaints seem moot.

The conversion rates are ****** compared to just buying certain mechs with mc and selling them yes, thats important and should be scrutinized, hell maybe thats legit money grabbing, or maybe someone in the studio doesn't understand basic economics. If you're concerned about the impact this will have on the community you could always vote with your wallet. A friend of mine I play with every other night has never used MC for anything other than mech bays and can he can still enjoy the game.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 16 April 2014 - 06:53 AM.