243 replies to this topic

[Dr HaxZaw]

Lrms still need a nerf or ams needs a serious buff

Would be nice is the large laser was actually useful

PGI still have no idea

the last is the only thing that never changes

[Wolfways]

Dr HaxZaw, on 15 April 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

Lrms still need a nerf or ams needs a serious buff

Would be nice is the large laser was actually useful

lol Proof that we are definitely not all playing the same game.

[Vox Scorpus]

I don't understand the people posting that AC2's are useless. I've run several builds with 2, 3, or 4 of them and did quite well. My current favorite is (was) 2- AC2 1- AC5 2- Med lasers. Routinely get over 650 damage and 909 was the best (I track damage, match scores, etc. in spreadsheet). What's wrong with that? And no it's not the AC5 doing all the damage - I only have 2 tons of ammo for it.

The AC2 is supposed to be a long range, low damage, fast rate of fire weapon. Combined with the advanced zoom it makes a good long range weapon. It also works well for enemy suppression.

Please stop nerfing all the weapons!

If this keeps up, we'll be throwing rocks or crashing into each other cause it'll be more damage and no ghost heat!!!

Once again - people complain about a weapon that killed them or they don't like it / don't use it, etc and it has to get nerfed. I thought the Gauss Rifle was bad enough but now they're going overboard. What's next? Machine guns with a 10 meter range? Give us a break please.

[ShinVector]

Kmieciu, on 15 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hey Paul, I'm not even mad about the AC2 change. They were useless since the introduction of ghost heat. Now they serve as a great noob indicator.

You see an enemy armed with AC2 = easy kill.
You see a teammate using AC2s = leave him alone, he'll probably get swarmed and die anyway.

Honestly when it comes to the practical usage of the AC2.. The nerf does not sound too bad.
It still doesn't answer the question why the range nerf since the AC2s were already kinda weak in the first place...
I guess low latency people see it differently.

[BigBANGtheory]

nerfing weapons is ok but you got the wrong focus with AC/2 etc....

All this achieves is strengthening LRM boating and further encouraging the meta combinations.

What you need to do is give the Victors and Cataphract 3Ds the same jump/fire penalties as the Highlander... or is that coming after the next Dragon Slayer sell?

Either way thanks for doing this patch before the Illya sell later this week, you just save me some MC ;-)

[WhineyThePoo]

Well I got nothin against the DPS nerf, but the range? what the hell! If I remember correctly from the Tabletop game the AC2 should have lowest damage in the AC family (now it has) but the longest range (now it dont have that)

[Abivard]

gavilatius, on 15 April 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

and that's what I did, I ducked down, spammed dakka at LRM boats as they shuffled along at 1300m and then watched as they stood there lobbing missiles past-max.

it was grand to also skirt around and shake up heavier builds and watch AC20s and PPCs sail by me as their chassis' shook around like a ragdoll

Sounds like you played in the underhive. Not meant as an insult, but as an observation, I believe you are mid Elo and getting dragged down into the underhive often.

No good player launches LRM's at ranges past 800m, before the speed patch that range was 600M or less.
I have some small difficulty hitting extremely fast mechs like spiders with my ac20 and ppc shots, so sometimes I need to shoot 2 or even 3 times to leg or core you. And I think I am around the upper-middle Elo bracket.

The weapons need to balance about where we sit, not the underhive and not the Meta-macro-Comp crowd.

Ballistics are at a 3X range. Energy are at 2X and LRM's are actually at 1.6X if I recall correctly.

[evilC]

This AC2 patch is bogus.

What is the point of this weapon now? The AC5 has an almost identical DPS, but 40% of the HPS and 86% of the range.
The AC2 is now 99% of the HPS of the AC20, with 60% of the DPS.

For these changes to make sense, the heat of the AC2 must also change.

From a competitive standpoint, probably the opposite was required. I thought we were trying to discourage instant point damage weapons in favor of spreading the damage out over time? Was that not the point of Ghost Heat?

[evilC]

WhineyThePoo, on 16 April 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Well I got nothin against the DPS nerf, but the range? what the hell! If I remember correctly from the Tabletop game the AC2 should have lowest damage in the AC family (now it has) but the longest range (now it dont have that)

Not really.
All ammo-using weapons should not be rated purely on Dmg Per Turn.
In TT, the AC2 gives you a capability for 90 dmg for 7 tons and 1 crit (For 1 ton of ammo), but over 10 turns.
The AC20 gives you a capability of 100 dmg for 15 tons and 10 crits, over 5 turns.

This is roughly in line with how MWO used to be.
"Paying" (With weight and crit slots) for higher rating ACs only got you the ability to concentrate that dmg in a shorter amount of time.

Now these changes make sense in some ways, but the new heat values of the AC2 make no sense whatsoever. Consider this table:

Heat to deliver 20 dmg:

AC2: 10
AC5: 4
AC10: 6
AC20: 4

[Disclaimer: I am not a TT player]

Edited by evilC, 16 April 2014 - 03:29 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Onlystolen, on 15 April 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Ac/2 range nerf, has effectively killed the ac/2

Why does AC need 3x range, while energy based weapons only have 2x? Does anyone complains about killing lasers?
Basically all AC need their range reduced to 2x to match other weapon systems. I find no reason why it was increased in the first place.

[Helsbane]

PGI - 'Balancing' until all weapons suck equally.

The changes to the AC2 went overboard. Range or RoF, pick one, but to do both effectively neuters this weapon system.

[Mr Blonde]

The problem with the AC/2 was never the range. It's supposed to be the longest ranged weapon. The problem was the ridiculous ROF, which makes it just murderous. If that's not been corrected, then it doesn't matter if they cut the range in half, it' still going to be way OP. Also the AC/2, AC/5, and UAC/5 are supposed to have minimum ranges so they aren't so OP (Gauss also is supposed to BTW). The ROF's on AC's are what needed to be adjusted badly, not the range.

[o0Marduk0o]

WhineyThePoo, on 16 April 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Well I got nothin against the DPS nerf, but the range? what the hell! If I remember correctly from the Tabletop game the AC2 should have lowest damage in the AC family (now it has) but the longest range (now it dont have that)

Other AC should be adjusted as well.

[Expired]

So many people are whining about the Range-Nerf - but why?
You guys are talking like you've been used to shoot on 1440+ Range? Seems like delivering 1 Dmg over high range was so much important to you
What the hell....

[Blue Drache]

Expired, on 16 April 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

So many people are whining about the Range-Nerf - but why?
You guys are talking like you've been used to shoot on 1440+ Range? Seems like delivering 1 Dmg over high range was so much important to you
What the hell....

It wasn't about the damage, it was making the sniper or the LRM boat stick his head down. It was all about providing cover fire for your lance/company's movements. It was getting the sniper's/LRM boat's attention. It was about being a distraction.

Learn to strategy.

Edited by Blue Drache, 16 April 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[Masterrix]

I hate these guys, really

over-nerfing, over-buffing, delaying everything

I played so many games and I never ever have seen such a bunch of low talented noobvelopers, only good in flooding the game with chassis and variants

[Expired]

Blue Drache, on 16 April 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

It wasn't about the damage, it was making the sniper or the LRM boat stick his head down. It was all about providing cover fire for your lance/company's movements. It was getting the sniper's/LRM boat's attention. It was about being a distraction.

Learn to strategy.

Protip, since you dont care about the Damage:
Impacting bullets will still cause Screenshake to you enemies whether you do Damage or not - enough to get theire attention, no?

Plus:
A good LRM-Carrier (usually Assault-Mech) will hardly care about a AC2-User whos >1440m away.
A good Sniper will be happy so see an AC2-User taunting him.

Edited by Expired, 16 April 2014 - 04:20 AM.

[Keren]

With the AC/2 being the lightest AC Weapon I can agree to bring the DPS a little bit into line. Lowering the rate of fire also reduces heat a little, so I could live with this part of the change (maybe up it a little to 3.33 DPS or get rid of the ghost heat).
But why the range nerf??? Just why ??? It was THE weapon to chase LRM Boats and Gauss Snipers back into cover, it was part of its role MWO.
I didn't find the AC/5 to unbalanced , for me the AC/10 was just to underpowered for it's heavy weight.

Edited by Keren, 16 April 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Padde]

Cattra Kell, on 15 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

They are still 2 tons lighter, travel 2x faster, fire 2.7x the rate of the AC5 and only take up 1 slot compared to 4.
Most people who run AC2's run over 3 of them - if you are running under that you are not in an optimal build - compared to the AC5 which only ran 2 on most variants (exception being the Banshee) - as such the optimal AC2 builds are still fine

+1

What they really should have done is nerf the AC2 down to 2 / 2.5 DPS AND stick with the long range. That way you still have a long range weapon to suppress the enemy but it's more in line with all the other ACs.

Now I really wonder why I should use an AC2 instead of an AC5. I liked to play the AC2/AC5 Jager, because of the long range option of the AC2 (despite the heat-problems), but now i will be better of with a 3(U)A5-Jager.

Edited by Padde, 16 April 2014 - 04:24 AM.

[Blue Drache]

Expired, on 16 April 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Impacting bullets will still cause Screenshake to you enemies whether you do Damage or not - enough to get theire attention, no?

Reread what I wrote ... "It was about being a distraction"

Expired, on 16 April 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

A good LRM-Carrier (usually Assault-Mech) will hardly care about a AC2-User whos >1440m away.
A good Sniper will be happy so see an AC2-User taunting him.

In my experience, LRM boats will see the red lamp damage indicator and move to hide. That puts their heads down. It distracts them. It silences their guns. That means less incoming damage. If the sniper looks at me, GREAT! I welcome it! I'm good at hiding and shooting between his laser bursts. Meanwhile, I've called out his position and the rest of my lance is flanking while I keep his attention.