48 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

Most, if not all, of us have been there. The scoreboard reads 0-8 or worse, and you've been cored and disarmed. There is no hope of winning and the other side is yowling on chat for you to stick your head into the noose and you just don't want to. On conquest or skirmish, the solution is simple. You hide and shut down after trying and failing to make a dent in the enemy. They cap out and win. But what of Skirmish?

There have been dozens of threads about how all hiders should be banned regardless of reason or cause. I've seen those who hide and ambush become the victim of team treason because some punk won't wait for the person to play his game. Bad play and team play abound and demands from bad players to make good ones die are just as plentiful. So why not fix the problem? /TL:DR

I propose, at least on Skirmish, a Surrender/Retreat option. Your team's been humiliated, and you don't feel like being the next notch in some brat's gun belt. Your options are to run out of bounds or suicide, or hide and deal with all the problems we know so well. Therefore let's install an option that the losing few members would be able to either A) surrender or retreat from the field.

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Here's how Surrender/Retreat would work.

If the teams are mismatched by less than 8 mechs by kill or disconnection, a pilot may opt for Surrender only after they shut down their mech. If this option is selected, their mech is then locked down for 30 minutes. They maintain all their XP from the match but zero C-Bills as if they are captured by the enemy. This will prevent farming by surrendering early in the game to try and farm. Your XP will be the same as the losing XP you would have received, not the winning XP. If your team wins without your help, you still get no CBills and the losing XP.

If the mismatch between teams is 8 or greater, the Retreat option becomes available and the remaining 4 mechs may cede the field to an obvious victor. In doing this, they gain only the losing Cbills, but zero XP. Essentially, you sacrifice the experience, but you keep the money for what you earned IF you had lost as a penalty. Your mech would NOT be locked down because you left the field ceding it to the enemy. Of course, if somehow your team wins inspite of your retreat, you still only get losing CBills and zero XP. Them's the risks you take.

Both options would not be available for the first 2 minutes of the game.

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When Repair and Rearm return with Community Warfare, these two options would have more and more value to them. If you surrender, you still have to refit/rearm and cannot access your mech for 30 minutes after. If you retreat, you still get only losing Cbills which makes your profit much lower, if it even covers expenses.

This could be used for all game formats, but right now Skirmish is the one that is all or nothing with no secondary victory conditions, making it ideal to test this theory out. It will increase churn in players getting back into game by preventing 24 mechs from being locked up in a match that ended in 5 minutes and the last smart pilot refusing to give in easily.

There is a minor penalty for opting out early because you believe the game is lost, but if you leave too early, you are penalized the greater by having your mech locked out for twice as long.

The idea could use some tweaking, but I think it would be an honorable (well in as much as this is just a game) way to satisfy many but for the most bloodthirsty.

[Koniving]

Glad I'm not the only one foreseeing a return of repair and rearm.

I do know I miss when surrendering was actually a thing (and even a ploy occasionally where a player would 'surrender' only to surprise attack them).

With the game as it is I'm not sure if I'd like it. But with repair and rearm it sounds considerably more appealing then.

I know one thing is for sure. Assault better pay a lot more for taking the base. It's a lot of work, takes forever, and doesn't pay anything at all.

[nimdabew]

Yes please. I wanted to surrender. They didn't accept my surrender.

[Kjudoon]

IIRC, at least in the lore, surrendering and retreating was a big deal because Mechs were so darn expensive and hard to field. Very much like the Napoleonic wars where surrenders of honor were allowed, and the losing side was able to march off the field, with or without their equipment / colors / weapons... et cetera.

It produces a better.... 'quality' of combat I think. Something almost utterly lacking in today's age though the game books seem to hint at it. I don't know about the novels. I don't read em.


After seeing Nimdabew's picture the last mech standing can avoid the surrendering time penalty if they're disarmed.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 April 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Koniving]

This'll probably get moved to Feature Suggestions, just calling it now. *Eyes a MiSs.*

[Kjudoon]

Cool. I hadn't the sleightest idea where it should go... so here I am.

I hope it catches the dev's eyes to stop the QQ over Skirmishiding too. With this option, I might even willingly play that mode instead of only ending up there accidentally or because someone forgot to take it off "Any" or was messing with me in my lance. The brutes.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 April 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[GreyGriffin]

I suggested this in the days of yore and got a pretty vitriolic response, maybe now it'll get a better reception now that the game has, uhm, settled in.

but yes, I think a fallback or retreat phase could add an interesting element to gameplay, and surrender options would be appropriate in-universe.

[Spawnsalot]

If this were to be implemented, what would be recorded on your stats page? Would you still count it as a loss? Or a death?

[OneEyed Jack]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

IIRC, at least in the lore, surrendering and retreating was a big deal because Mechs were so darn expensive and hard to field. Very much like the Napoleonic wars where surrenders of honor were allowed, and the losing side was able to march off the field, with or without their equipment / colors / weapons... et cetera.

It produces a better.... 'quality' of combat I think. Something almost utterly lacking in today's age though the game books seem to hint at it. I don't know about the novels. I don't read em.


After seeing Nimdabew's picture the last mech standing can avoid the surrendering time penalty if they're disarmed.

BattleTech lore doesn't have the "honorable retreat" with safe conduct as a standard practice, except in the case of the Clans when Hegira has been invoked, though there are individual cases outside that. On the other hand, the victors often will let the retreating force withdraw simply to avoid further combat loss in a battle already won. Surrender and ejection are both very common to avoid death or complete destruction of a mech. Popping hatches or hard shut-downs in the face of the enemy are universally accepted forms of surrender that are generally honored by any enemy not bent on ruthless destruction. Few people would wantonly blow up a mech to which they were just handed the title.

[zztophat]

I think surrendering shouldn't be an option... kicking should!

GIVE US MELEE PGI!

[Eddrick]

I see no reason, not to allow Retreat/Surrender. It would have real value with Rearm and Repair in. Just have to discorage cowards and people using it to quit early for farming reasons.

[CyclonerM]

I would totally approve surrender/retreat options.. In the Succession Wars era 'Mechs are indeed expense and hard to replace. In case of 11-0 etc. i always suggest surrendering to the last enemy standing, but for some reason they never accept, even when i offer them a "chance" to become a bondsman of Clan Wolf..

With R&R it would make a sense since instead of dying without a reason you would bring back home your 'Mech and pay less for repairs..

[Koniving]

zztophat, on 20 April 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

I think surrendering shouldn't be an option... kicking should!
GIVE US MELEE PGI!

>.>

[Bobzilla]

It should have a requirement of no weapons or being the last along with the only stats recorded for that match a death.

[Spawnsalot]

Well, a death and a loss.

[Gyrok]

I was going to say, outside of trothkin granting hegira, I recall seldom instances of this...the Inner Sphere surats were less prone to recognizing the value of undestroyed mechs and honor was foreign concept to many.

[Davers]

Every time R&R is brought up people wanting to be able to surrender and abandon their teammates comes up...and this is why R&R was removed. It encouraged the worst behaviors like disconnecting and hiding. Bad enough that we have players so concerned with their stats they do these kinds of things.

[Kjudoon]

Spawnsalot, on 20 April 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

If this were to be implemented, what would be recorded on your stats page? Would you still count it as a loss? Or a death?

You could track it as an individual stat and/or a loss. Would serve as a good metric against those who abuse it.

[Kjudoon]

zztophat, on 20 April 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

I think surrendering shouldn't be an option... kicking should!

GIVE US MELEE PGI!

Melee would stop leg humping lights, that's for sure. Surrender is always an option. That is why I basically set up the proposal to prevent farming and abuse of non-play.

I'd also like to see reinforcements (NOT respawn) put in game but I think that'd fry the program as is. Gimme CW first before that happens pleases.

Gyrok, on 20 April 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

I was going to say, outside of trothkin granting hegira, I recall seldom instances of this...the Inner Sphere surats were less prone to recognizing the value of undestroyed mechs and honor was foreign concept to many.

Something else to recall, Lore is selectively ignored here... MWO is not strictly lore based and therefore, this option could... and should be introduced.

[Davers]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

You could track it as an individual stat and/or a loss. Would serve as a good metric against those who abuse it.

If you need to track it because it could be abused, then it is not a good mechanic.