Strum Wealh, on 01 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:
By contrast, each of TRO 2750, CBTMR, and
TechManual explicitly says it does exactly that.
- "The Guardian ECM Suite is a broad-spectrum jamming and electronic countermeasure device, designed to reduce the efficiency of enemy long-range scanning and surveillance equipment. The Guardian interferes with sensor readings, preventing identification at ranges of more than 180 meters. Closer than that, 'Mech pilots usually rely on their own vision in case their sensors cannot override the Guardian's jamming." - Technical Readout: 2750, pg.10
- "The Guardian emits a broad-band signal that interferes with all sonar, radar, UV, IR, and magscan sensors. This signal projects a "cloak" to a radius of 180 meters, protecting all units within the circle. Enemy long-range sensors can find vehicles and 'Mechs within the curtain, but the Guardian obscures the reading, preventing identification. By the time the enemy gets within visual range, sensors can sometimes override the jamming, but most pilots rely on their own eyes." - Technical Readout: 2750, pg. 92
- "The Guardian ECM suite is a broad-spectrum jamming and electronic countermeasure device designed to reduce the effectiveness of enemy long-range scanning and surveillance equipment. The Clans also use an ECM suite with the same capabilities in a lighter and smaller package." - Classic BattleTech Master Rules (Revised), pg. 136
- "Around the end of the Reunification War, Johnston Industries (a Terran Hegemony company, working in partnership with Yelm Weapons of Fletcher) debuted the Guardian ECM suite on the newly deployed Nightshade VTOL. This broad-spectrum jamming and electronic countermeasure system revolutionized electronic warfare (EW). In a day when most communications and targeting systems had grown accustomed to a battlefield flooded by conventional electronic noise and counter-noise, the Guardian was powerful and smart enough to scramble all hostile electronics within a spherical 'bubble' roughly 180 meters across. The Guardian could even adapt to and scatter contemporary EW packages like the Beagle Active Probe, Narc Missile Beacon and Artemis IV - all while simultaneously keeping friendly channels and targeting enhancers clear." - TechManual, pg. 213
By definition (per TRO 2750), Guardian's "broad spectrum" interference includes "sonar, radar, UV, IR, and magscan".
The reference to the ALQ-144 and its ilk demonstrates how such a system would work from an in-universe perspective, and how such a system would be capable of deceiving a computer-controlled detection system (the BattleMech's own sensor-processing system, or the seekers in IR-guided missiles) while being unable to deceive a human operator (the 'MechWarrior looking at a thermographic image on a screen, and being able - or unable - to determine what is shown in said image).
Moreover, the gameplay rules for IR Sensor Spotting are such that, if implemented directly into MWO, Guardian almost wouldn't be needed to deceive them.
- "For example, a player is using a 'Mech IR sensor and rolls a 5, resulting in detection of any unit in that sensor's medium range bracket (hexes 11-20). However, a 'Mech with 15 points of heat (inflicting a -3 MP modifier) is at hex range 8, three hexes away from the medium range bracket. The infrared sensor spots the 'hot' unit. If the 'Mech only had 14 points of heat, or if it was at hex range 7 (four hexes away from the medium range bracket), it would have remained undetected." - TacOps, pg. 223
- "Units that are not 'hot' cannot be detected by an IR sensor scan." - TacOps, pg. 223
In MWO terms, the target 'Mech that was at 50.00% on its heat scale & at a range of 210 meters (or at 46.67% on its heat scale & at a range of 240 meters) would have gone
completely undetected by the IR sensors of the scanning 'Mech in the scenario outlined - because it either wasn't hot enough (by 3.33%) or because it was
too close to the IR sensor.
Transcribed verbatim:
TRO 2750:
"The Guardian ECM suite is a broad-spectrum jamming and electronic countermeasure device, designed to reduce the efficiency of of enemy long-range scanning and surveillance equipment. The Guardian interferes with sensor readings, preventing identification at ranges of more than 180 meters. Closer than that, 'Mech pilots on their own vision in case their sensors cannot override the Guardian's jamming."
The Battletech Compendium:
The Guardian ECM suite is broad-spectrum jamming and election countermeasure device designed to reduce the effectiveness of enemy long-range scanning and surveillance equipment.
A Guardian system nullifies the effects of any enemy Beagle active probe (though it would notice that it is being jammed), Artemis fire-control system, Narc missile beacon, or C3 computer, when that system is within 6 hexes of a Guardian equipped unit. Friendly systems of these sort are not affected.
A Guardian nullifies these systems even when they are not directed at the Guardian-equipped unit. It also works when the path of the enemy system passes within 6 hexes of the Guardian. For example, if the LOS to a Narc or the LOS between two C3 linked units passes within 6 hexes of an enemy Guardian, the line of communication is broken until the Guardian no longer interferes.
Total Warfare:
An ECM suite has an eff ect radius of six hexes that creates a “bubble” around the carrying unit. The ECM’s disruptive abilities affect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight traced through the bubble. It has no eff ect on units friendly to the unit carrying the ECM.
In the ECM diagram, the ’Mech in Hex A on the Open Terrain #1 map is equipped with an ECM suite, which has an effect radius of six hexes (shown as the shaded area). The suite affects any enemy unit in this area or any enemy LOS traced through it. The ’Mech in Hex B is affected because it falls inside the eff ect radius. A shot from Hex C to Hex D would also be affected because LOS passes through the radius. A shot from Hex C to Hex E would not be affected because LOS does not pass through the radius.
Within its eff ect radius, an ECM suite has the following effects on the following systems. The ECM suite does not aff ect other scanning and targeting devices, such as TAG and targeting computers.
Active Probe: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area of effect. The probing unit would notice that it is being jammed, however.
Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus.
Narc Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on an attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that system if the pods themselves lie within an ECM “bubble.” The Narc launcher itself (standard and iNarc) is not aff ected by ECM.
C3 and C3i Computer: ECM has the eff ect of “cutting off ” any C3-equipped unit from its network. If a C3 master unit is isolated from the network because it ventures inside the ECM radius, the entire portion of the network below it is eff ectively shut off (all units subordinate to it on the diagram on p. 132). Only those C3 units able to draw an LOS to the master unit that does not pass through the ECM radius can access the network. If the master unit that connects the lances of a company lies inside the ECM eff ect radius, the link between the lances is lost, though each lance’s network functions normally (unless the ECM also interferes with them individually).
Tactical Operations:
Just as special sensors can make spotting enemy units easier, special ECM and stealth systems can make units harder to detect.
As a general rule, ECM/stealth systems mask a unit’s nature and precise location from enemy sensors, but the systems’ powerful jamming devices make it clear to the enemy that something is out there.
In the double-blind game, all ECM and stealth systems modify the die roll results of spotting units attempting to detect an enemy unit equipped with such an ECM system. Because different ECM/stealth systems have different effects
against different probes and sensors, the modifiers vary depending on the spotting unit’s probe/sensor and the enemy unit’s ECM system. These modifiers appear in the ECM/Stealth Modifier Table. Once the sensor detection dice roll has been made (including adding any bonus modifiers from the controlling player’s side), the player consults the ECM/Stealth Modifier Table and adds the applicable modifier to the roll result.
To be affected, the spotting unit must be in the normal operating radius of the ECM/stealth system (note that stealth systems only affect the target unit and do not have a radius of effect, and so are only taken into consideration for the unit mounting that equipment). LOS does not affect this radius. If a spotting unit is within the range of multiple ECM systems, combine the effects of all the ECM systems.
Though ECM systems can prevent a sensor probe from identifying a unit, they also produce powerful, distinctive electromagnetic signatures. If a spotting unit is in range of an active ECM device and fails to detect the ECM-equipped unit, inform the player that his unit has been jammed by an ECM suite. Stealth systems do not have such a signature and so the player is not informed if a stealth-equipped unit manages to remain hidden from a probe; if the unit mounts equipment with “ECM” in its title (even if the ECM only aff ects the target unit’s hex), or if the equipment must have an active ECM to operate (such as Stealth Armor or a Void-Signature System), then the player is informed that jamming has occurred.
ECCM: If using the ECCM rules (see p. 100), players can use ECCM to cancel out ECM, thus making it harder or easier to detect various units.
Tactical Operations Table- ECM Modifiers:
Standard Clan, Watchdog, Guardian ECM:--------MOD
Beagle------------------------------------------------------+4
Bloodhound------------------------------------------------+2
Clan Active-------------------------------------------------+4
Light Active------------------------------------------------+5
Watchdog--------------------------------------------------+4
EW System------------------------------------------------+4
Mech Sensor----------------------------------------------+5
Vehicle Sensor/Improved Sensor----------------------+6
Communications Equipment/Command Console---+6
Seismic/IR/Magscan--------------------------------------NA
==================================================================================
Now, with all of that said/transcribed.
1: Broad Spectrum does
not mean "All encompassing," it just means more than 1. (Broad spectrum antibiotics doesn't mean "every possible infection.")
2: None of them say "Blocks targeting" (Only "Prevents Identification" -
not the same thing as targeting.)
3: None of them say it effects IR detection. (IR, Magscan, and siesmic only detect, they don't identify, anyways.)
4: Total Warfare says explicitly: "Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus." (
That means that missiles fire normally, but Artemis is cancelled out.)
5: The Table in the Tac Ops (which is where you say PGI got the rules) specifically states that IR detection is not modified by Guardian. ("
NA")
6: Mech IR's long range is up to 30 Hexes (Tac Ops- P.222) 900 meters. (Roughly MWO's unmodified detection range..)
7: IR detection in MWO would also explain why shut-down mechs are not detected without Beagle: No significant heat.
8: TRO 2750 P. 92 is inconsistent with the other information on it, specifically Total Warfare and Tactical Operations.
Strum Wealh, on 01 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:
The missiles can be made significantly faster, which can then be offset by
- increasing AMS damage output,
- decreasing missile tracking strength,
- decreasing missile turning speed, and/or
- increasing missile turning radius.
They would work that way too, but I don't see it as a necessary change. (Given they would function just fine now if ECM functioned as it should.)
Strum Wealh, on 01 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:
The Long Tom Cannon - just the weapon, by itself & sans ammunition - requires 15 critical spaces; it cannot fit within a single torso section (only 12 criticals available) or a single arm (only 10 criticals available).
As suc, it cannot be mounted on a 'Mech unless the ability to split some large weapons (specifically: the artillery cannons, the Arrow IV launcher, the various class-20 autocannons, and the Heavy Gauss Rifle) is implemented.
For examples of LTC-equipped 'Mechs, see the
Loki Mk.II B, the
VTR-9K2 "St. James", and the
PLG-4X "Anvil".
That is what I'm saying.. that ability should be implemented. (Call it an "upgrade" if you really want and charge Cbills for modification.)
There is precedent.
[EDIT: For some reason my pretty-ing up the transfer from PDF didn't stick in first iteration..so I had to use full editor- hopefully it worked this time.]
[EDIT 2: TRO 2750 Page 92]
Edited by Livewyr, 01 May 2014 - 10:02 AM.
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