64 replies to this topic

[JonahGrimm]

I cannot stress Konniving's post enough.

Look - MWO as a pickup game is pretty predictable - and that's not a bad thing That lets you develop tactics.

The first phase is finding the enemy. The side that finds an enemy lance first has a tremendous advantage - PUGs will gravitate toward red triangles. If your scouts find something substantial to shoot at before the enemy, then your team will start to pull together to isolate and kill it.

Next? Long range engagement. The two mech lines jockey for positon, trying to snipe unreturned damage an soften the enemy lances up before combat really happens. During this time, shorter range mechs test the opposite line, looking for holes to exploit, isolated mechs they can burn down, or lonely LRM mechs standing on an unguarded vector.

Third is the flank. This can happen in lots of ways - a light goes off to play squirrel, and the enemy line turns to chase. Maybe a brawler or two finds that hole in the lines and exploits it. Perhaps it's a simple overextension, where some too-happy mech gets cut off out in the open and burned down, creating a local advantage. Regardless, if you're being flanked, your line will divide its fire and focus in the wrong direction.

(Not that there's a right direction, really. If my Jenner or Spider gets behind you, and you don't deal with me? I'll have a 600dmg game with 10 assists and multiple kills - lights are not exactly toothless. Heck -I isolated a stalker and shadowhawk yesterday in my Oxide, and pulled 800 damage, with both of them down and an atlas to boot! Ignore any mech at your peril.)


Anyway - I hope this gives you some ideas of ways you can contribute to the fight. Think it through - which role are you? What's the best way you can make a difference?

[Not A Real RAbbi]

OP: If you can score 4 kills with a trial mech, you're doing something right.

[Tesunie]

grimunk, on 17 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

I won game #33. I barely survived it, 1 kill, 8 assists, 400 or so damage. In most of my games, it seems that once close range combat starts, my team meets the enemy team, and my teammates just start falling. If I'm not one of the first, I quickly find I'm alone and surrounded. Almost all the enemy mechs are in good shape too. It's not just a loss, it's a stomp. So sry for those I get teamed with: I'm your ultra bad luck charm.

Maybe post up your mech stats (from your forum profile)? It sounds like this is nothing you are doing. I've had many a match where I was top damage dealer for my team, with around 600 damage, but when everyone else is under 100-200 damage themselves, my personal performance isn't going to bring a win. Even if you are losing matches, take comfort that you seem to be scoring so well on your teams scoreboard.

Also, if you wish to friend me in game, I'll be more than happy to group up with you. I care not if I win or lose, so even if you are 'bad luck', I'll stay with it. (And no, I'm not going to say I'm a great MW, but I think I do well enough.) I'll be trying to get on later tonight, if I can. If not, I'll probably be trying to get on Sunday night. (Offer is always open!)

[Hawks]

The simple fact of the matter is that, when playing this game as a PUG, whether you win or lose any given match is about 10% down to your own skill (if that) and at least 90% down to sheer blind luck. So don't get too disheartened.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

^^^^

What he said.

If the rest of your team gets steamrolled, 11-0, then it leaves you alone against 12 enemy mechs. You'll get focused-down in seconds, no matter how awesome you and your mech are. If they do the steamrolling, then you may be awful at the game but still get the win.

If you can pull 4 kills in a trial (as above), then you're doing more than your part, even if it's late-game. It's better, especially in heavies and assaults, to get your damage done earlier with those heavy weapon systems, so even if you get killed you at least left the enemy weakened enough to be finished by your lighter teammates.

BUT ANYHOW, yeah. If there was a one-on-one arena system in game, I'm sure you'd have a much better W/L.

[Onyxian]

I know EXACTLY how the OP feels. How can it be just bad luck that the red team ALWAYS seems better coordinated and skilled than my team? I assume they have new players on their team too, but the red team is ALWAYS outflanking my team, or luring us into a kill box, or, well, I could whine for another dozen paragraphs about the different ways MY team always seems to suck. It can't just be because of me..

Edited by Onyxian, 24 August 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Koniving]

Seems Grimunk is doing better. Was coming in to check and get some feedback on that.

Thank you Jonah. I like the way you broke down what is literally every match that I play when I'm not in a whimsical mood.
Thankfully it turns out very differently when I'm feeling whimsical.
Flamer Awesomes! Back when flamers were even more useless than now! Because yay!


In two player split screen vision! O_O!

[grimunk]

Yeah. Last several matches seems to be coming up more 50/50, which is what I would expect in a pug. Still not sure what was up with the massive losing streak - just too mathematically unlikely. It really is a crapshoot - either you get a team that acts like a team and can hit targets, or you don't.

[Osric Lancaster]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 April 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

ADD ME AS FRIEND. I will make you good.

ADD ME AS FRIEND. I will make you look good in comparison.

But yeah. Having a solid team, or failing that picking a random friendly PUG assault and supporting it are your best bets. The game is worlds less difficult when you have a chassis or two mastered as well. (Look for a guide on mastering 'Mechs, there are many.)

You sound like you play well, but keep in mind that many times you're stuck with team mates that don't know their 'Mech from a hole in the ground. Don't go rabbiting off into a wall of enemies because your friendly does, but don't cower behind a rock for the duration of the match. The trick is finding the proper balance between those two.

Be flexible, be where you're needed, but don't overextend or over-cover. The loss of that guy who ran out front hurts your team, but not as badly as losing both you and him hurts your team. Also spread damage across your 'Mech by torso twisting etc, etc. There's a lot of nuance that we can't really cover here, but fortunately there's a tome of info in this forum to help you. The learning curve. . . it be steep, Mon.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 20 April 2014 - 07:33 PM.

[Aegic]

IE works ok for me and is also very underrated. With its newest reiteration it is actually faster than the competition.

http://windows.micro...plorer/ie-proof

[grimunk]

It seems to me that mechs with too many different weapons aren't as effective as mechs with a mix of at most 3 different weapons. Is this what everyone else is finding?

[Lyoto Machida]

Shar Wolf, on 17 April 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

Some never did and maintained that it was a waste of tonnage.

I still don't pack AMS (except on the Jester I just picked up this week).

[RiotHero]

I've had 6 kills and lost, I've had 1.2+k dmg with multiple kills and lost.

Unless you can kill every single person on the other team there is no guarantee you will win. Wins are as random as MM in this game. Some of my best games ever I had 9 people on my team with double or single digit dmg. There really is nothing you can do in a pug. Pug is a free for all where people just try and get kills and don't care much about winning(if they do they don't play like it). They stay back and don't engage until they absolutely have to. At that point they spam "R" until they see a weak mech they can take with them as an easy kill.

With the current complete lack of tactics, role warfare, or team work, I haven't found a way to win.



Be lucky I guess. You could also just not play like you said, or take it in stride and not care like most of us.

Edited by RiotHero, 21 April 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[John80sk]

As many people have said, I've had plenty of games where I put up high numbers and still lost. In 12v12 it's very difficult to carry a team entirely by yourself. Even in wins where it seems like one guy carries, he still needed those other guys to stay alive long enough to act as meatshields. Losing that many matches in a row is an anomoly, but not surprising given the way matchmaker works as I understand it if you're in a trial mech.

As far as advice goes, join a unit. Individually you seem like a good player. One guy can only carry so far, but four can carry much further.
http://mwomercs.com/...ons-merc-corps/

Also, feel free to add me as a friend ingame. I'm part of a fairly casual unit, so I'm usually playing with a few friends.

Oh, and I'd recommend getting your own mech as soon as possible, trial mechs are screwy ELO wise and that could be a good chunk of the problem. I'd recommend a shadowhawk for a starter mech, reasonably cheap so you can get it elited quick and able to fill just about any role.

[CCC Dober]

Mate, if you want to change things immediately, go to a teamspeak server of your choice or try the new mwolobby.com (no teamspeak required). Just partner up with some guys/gals that know their way around and you are halfway there.

With teamplay comes overwhelming firepower. You can figure out the rest, heh

[Marmon Rzohr]

grimunk, on 20 April 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yeah. Last several matches seems to be coming up more 50/50, which is what I would expect in a pug. Still not sure what was up with the massive losing streak - just too mathematically unlikely. It really is a crapshoot - either you get a team that acts like a team and can hit targets, or you don't.

While the number is nasty and improbable, it does happen. Even with the best will and mech and skill in the world you will encounter losing streaks when playing solo. Although some good advice has been dealt in this thread that should help in minimizing the chances of that happening again.

grimunk, on 20 April 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

It seems to me that mechs with too many different weapons aren't as effective as mechs with a mix of at most 3 different weapons. Is this what everyone else is finding?

That is very true and a good observation. Mechs with a lot of weapon systems have the "jack of all trades, master of none" problem. When you carry long, short and mid range weapons you find yourself lacking firepower at all ranges. That's why it usually best to build a mech with 2 (in some cases 3 - some Atlas builds for instance) weapon systems that work really well together.

Like medium lasers and an AC20. Or a pair of Gauss rifles etc.

If you post which mechs you run (or intend to run) we can suggest the good tired and tested builds you can use with them.
A good mech build helps a lot in your ability to influence a match.

I suggest reading this:
http://mwomercs.com/...dvanced-topics/
This is a really good guide, not just for new players. If you haven't I suggest reading it asap.

Another very important aspect of winning is tactics. Every map in MWO has good positions and death traps. Knowing which positions to use depending on where the enemy is going can allow you to dominate games. Do you find yourself winning some maps and losing others often ?

This thread has a good breakdown of MWO's maps, it's a must to read:
http://mwomercs.com/...-tactical-view/

Also, feel free to ask here

On a final note I'd like to address modules:

Spoiler

Most of them are useful but some stand out as very good. I'd suggest that the first module you unlock be either Improved Arty Strike or Advanced Sensor Range, possibly Advanced Seismic Sensor.

Arty strike (along with Air strike) is a potent tool for dishing out damage, digging out camping enemy mechs and stopping enemy advances. A well placed strike is devestating. It does however cost 40 000 C-Bills per use and so I wouldn't recommend using it while you are farming the money for new mechs/engines/weapons as it will use up to 50% of your profits from a match (this is less of a concern if you are on Premium time/ using a Hero mech).

Adv. Sensor range and Adv. Seismic both give you the same thing: detecting enemy mechs you'd usually be unable to see, but in different ways:
Adv. Sensor range allows you to spot far away mechs with greater ease and either collect spotting assists or snipe them yourself. It also has the added benefit of marking out targets that would be really difficult to see due to poor visibility (in River City Night for instance).

Seismic gives you the ability to detect enemy mechs close to you regardless of terrain. It's a good tool to prevent yourself getting flanked unexpectedly. However it works only when the mech is stationary, so it's best used with mechs that use Jump Jets to snipe ("poptarts") - as the time your mech spends in the air is counted as time it spent stationary, you get a reading when your mech hits the ground.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 21 April 2014 - 01:03 AM.

[Ghostchips Condensate I and II]

grimunk, on 17 April 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

It would appear that I'm cursed. Any team I'm on loses now. It shouldn't be possible to get 26 losses in a row, but here I am.

That happens to me, you will find a way to overcome it. i try different role and often that breaks the losing streak.

[Tesunie]

grimunk, on 20 April 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

It seems to me that mechs with too many different weapons aren't as effective as mechs with a mix of at most 3 different weapons. Is this what everyone else is finding?

This depends upon the weapon systems being used. One using LLs, TAG, AC5 and LRMs together (4 weapon systems) would probably find it working well, as three of your weapons blend well. If you are using a Sm laser, a pair of med lasers, an AC2, a LL and an ERPPC, you will find you have too much of a broad band of ranges, with weapons that don't exactly work well together.

Someone else already mentioned this in this thread (above me), so I wont go into too much depth. Lets just say, there is a power to boating, but also a weakness to it (using just one weapon system). However, there is also a power to a balanced design, as well as a weakness (using different weapons, having sets for different ranges). I go far more into depth on this subject in my Guide on Balanced mech construction, if you wish to read my take on the subject more.

[grimunk]

Guys, I have to say, I'm impressed with the community here. Almost every other game-centric communities (save for the homeworld guys, back in the day) are often at least half toxic. The overwhelming majority of you guys have been helpful.

Thanks a bunch

[dr lao]

friend me my brother il point you to danger