42 replies to this topic

[Flaming oblivion]

I noticed someone else posting in another thread regarding armour now to me it seems pretty weak its one of the last things I think about when building a mech.

Now don't get me wrong I ain't about to enter a match with no armour I just feel its not a priority and stacking armour usually seems to hurt you more then it helps you, its usually more beneficial to save the tonnes for something else, If you looked at a orion for example you'd think fully armoured it could really take some hits. You'd be wrong.

I think it should be buffed I mean most games have your categories

*Tank/meat shield
*support/healer
*glass cannon/ damage dealer
*and usually a scrapper type cross between a tank and glass cannon

MWO seems to be lacking on this front . With nothing being what I'd call a stand out tank or really anything that fits any of the slots on that list. I feel it would be a good way to go as if you have your specialist mechs it emphasises teamwork.

[Shatterpoint]

Not likely to change, grab the mech with the biggest carry capacity for your weapon of choice and play it like a light..save yourself some heartbreak.

[Durant Carlyle]

This isn't any other game. No 'Mechs fit in any category. All 'Mechs of the same tonnage can have the same amount of armor.

I don't know about anyone else, but my first step when researching new 'Mechs and builds in Smurfy is to click Max Armor. Then comes the weapons/ammo/equipment, and finally I see what kind of engine I can shoehorn in. If that speed isn't fast enough, then the weapons/ammo/equipment gets reduced. The armor stays at or very near max.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm not at max armour to accommodate my load out . but I only lowered it in places I can afford to lose and sure if you wanna shoot there. Be my guest you'll die first though. I still think armour is to weak and could use some adjustment.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 20 April 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Khobai, on 20 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

speed is way better than armor in mwo. thats a problem IMO.

It's only a problem if you cannot hit a high-speed target.

My opponents seem to be able to hit my 152 KPH Jenner just fine, which is why I carry near-max armor.

[Lynx7725]

Flaming oblivion, on 20 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Now don't get me wrong I ain't about to enter a match with no armour I just feel its not a priority and stacking armour usually seems to hurt you more then it helps you, its usually more beneficial to save the tonnes for something else, If you looked at a orion for example you'd think fully armoured it could really take some hits. You'd be wrong.

I think it should be buffed I mean most games have your categories

*Tank/meat shield
*support/healer
*glass cannon/ damage dealer
*and usually a scrapper type cross between a tank and glass cannon

MWO seems to be lacking on this front . With nothing being what I'd call a stand out tank or really anything that fits any of the slots on that list. I feel it would be a good way to go as if you have your specialist mechs it emphasises teamwork.

Eh why do we need to wait for PGI to define a role for us to build our mechs to? Just think and apply to your build; it's a thinking man's shooter anyway.

Assaults by default has the highest armour. If you want a tank, bring an Atlas with STD engine and max frontal armour, even under focus fire it takes forever to kill one.

Gauss Jagers hurt like heck from range but is so fragile it dies to a side torso destruction (or so slow that it's not really.. great.) Since they are so fragile anyway, some people tone armour down to carry more stuff. Like ammo.

LRM boats are your bog-standard artillery support classes.

Lights are your typical harassers/ scouts.

Nothing's going to survive a 4 or 6 mech focus fire for very long, but there's plenty of nuances between different builds. And the different builds can play different roles as the builder defines it -- MWO leaves it up to us to define our battlefield roles.

[Khobai]

Quote

It's only a problem if you cannot hit a high-speed target.

My opponents seem to be able to hit my 152 KPH Jenner just fine, which is why I carry near-max armor.

but the fact remains its harder to kill a spider than it is to kill an atlas. that is wrong for obvious reasons.

[El Bandito]

Any LRM boat sporting max armor is doing it wrong. I usually have only 2/3 armor.

[Asmudius Heng]

The problem with all mechwarrior games is that the freedom in the mechlab does not match the lore. Stock was stock because customisation was extremely difficult.

Now i agree that mechwarrior should have lots of customisation but PGI sadly only implmented hardpoints as the only build restriction that pays any attention to the stock version - but then nothing else which means that original intended role becomes obsolete. Engine restrictions made it a little more interesting, then you have where the weapons are on a mech and its agility etc but these are all so small as to not really define a role ... JJ, ECM, Engine size and your weapon loadout are all that makes a role right now and most mechs can morph into any role.

Armour is the most dissapointing thing. Armour is nearly always maxed out with a bit stripped here and there depending on the hitboxes. In the Battletech universe that much armour was armoured like god for the weight of the mech because of random hit locations .... because we have a skill based system though the armour compared to how damage is done is vastly different.

You CAN still tank in a mech ... you need a standard engine and you need the hit boxes to be good and you need to be spinning your torso and changing direction a lot to do it ... but purely having massive armour ability to soak cannot exist.

What a better solution would have been is to give each mech/varient a different level of armour per location based on the original max amount for its weight then adjust up and down depending on the intended role, or to balance the mechs.

So for example:

Hunchback would have the ability to add extra armour to its hunch .... this would not be free you need to find weight for it but it would allow that section become beefier.

The Jager might have ALL locations lower than standard being the glass cannon it was originally.

The Atlas might be able to increase armour all over beyond the usual amount (again not free you need to find the tonnage)

Some mechs will gravitate to tanking, or to being more weapons hungry since you cannot spend that weight on armour, some mechs with poor hit boxes might have locational increases etc.

Anyway - that and hardpoint sizes would make me feel like mechs have some role differentiation .... and a module reboot ...

[OneEyed Jack]

El Bandito, on 20 April 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Any LRM boat sporting max armor is doing it wrong. I usually have only 2/3 armor.

You only think they're doing it wrong because you're doing LRM boat wrong and don't know any better. Just sayin'.

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 20 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

I noticed someone else posting in another thread regarding armour now to me it seems pretty weak its one of the last things I think about when building a mech.

Now don't get me wrong I ain't about to enter a match with no armour I just feel its not a priority and stacking armour usually seems to hurt you more then it helps you, its usually more beneficial to save the tonnes for something else, If you looked at a orion for example you'd think fully armoured it could really take some hits. You'd be wrong.

I think it should be buffed I mean most games have your categories

*Tank/meat shield
*support/healer
*glass cannon/ damage dealer
*and usually a scrapper type cross between a tank and glass cannon

MWO seems to be lacking on this front . With nothing being what I'd call a stand out tank or really anything that fits any of the slots on that list. I feel it would be a good way to go as if you have your specialist mechs it emphasises teamwork.

You know I complain to the heavens about this about most games. Maybe it's my decades of gaming, but the finite rolls you describe are way to restrictive to a vet like me.

[Asmudius Heng]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

You know I complain to the heavens about this about most games. Maybe it's my decades of gaming, but the finite rolls you describe are way to restrictive to a vet like me.

I also agree with this, but some of these basic archtypes are not really easy to even represent in MWO because of the way the systems work.

In general those roles are extreme ends of a risk/reward profile. However lowering your armour is not worth it ever for increased firepower basically for instance, and tanking can be done but no one mech feels like it does it better than others with a few exceptions (Centurion, Atlas to a degree)

There is no great role for support either ... scouting has a role but only if you are on Teamspeak really and the sensor system is a mess imo

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Your weak armour felling is a symptom. Pinpoiting is a reason.
And yeah, hard point sizes is a way to give this game and so much adorable famouse mechs some flavor, In current state, all mechs you know are reconized only by name and skin. Nothing more.
Hardpoint system is so plain dumb and flat that i can not imagine worst.

Give me some a reason to bay more mechbays, as I dont see any now. As any mech can transform to any given role. Treb is better huch then huch, kintaro is better 2x15 lrm support then treb. Whare is a place for panthera or hollander or even urby. Roles are mixed in the worst possible way.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 21 April 2014 - 04:21 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 20 April 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Any LRM boat sporting max armor is doing it wrong. I usually have only 2/3 armor.

That is called a fair trade off in my dictionary. I may not agree with the concept for myself, but I do agree that it can work.

[El Bandito]

OneEyed Jack, on 21 April 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

You only think they're doing it wrong because you're doing LRM boat wrong and don't know any better. Just sayin'.

This is the first time someone told me that I am doing LRM boating wrong. How do you do LRM boating then?

So far the KDR in my favorite LRM boats (2D2, A1, 733) have been overwhelmingly good, but I'll take any advice to become better. After all, there are more than one way to use LRMs.

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

That is called a fair trade off in my dictionary. I may not agree with the concept for myself, but I do agree that it can work.

Months of evading ECM mechs pre-BAP buff with my Streak Cat taught me a thing or two about how to stay safe. Therefore I prefer more ammo or speed, over armor

Edited by El Bandito, 21 April 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

OneEyed Jack, on 21 April 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

You only think they're doing it wrong because you're doing LRM boat wrong and don't know any better. Just sayin'.

Do regale us with your extensive knowledge of LRM boating. Could you show us your stats too?

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 21 April 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Months of evading ECM mechs pre-BAP buff with my Streak Cat taught me a thing or two about how to stay safe. Therefore I prefer more ammo and speed, over armor

Thinking man in a shooter.
You have weighed
You have measuers
And you have found you need more ammo than Armor in certain situations!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 April 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[Ultimax]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

You know I complain to the heavens about this about most games. Maybe it's my decades of gaming, but the finite rolls you describe are way to restrictive to a vet like me.

I agree.

I've played too many MMOs at this point, and usually these "roles" are just hamfisted into the game to give players a clear idea of what they should be doing and to force reasons to team up.


This game doesn't need that, and that doesn't mean "role warfare" is a bad idea (it isn't) - it means selecting the Atlas line and saying "These are tanks, they will have tank mechanics" is a bad idea.

[3rdworld]

Modular armor. If we have FF there is absolutely no way they wouldn't have Modular armor by now. (I know they don't have it yet in lore, but the fact that we can mount FF armor in the internal space, but not regular armor is a major breakdown in plausibility).

It would also give mechs the ability to fit multiple roles instead of pigeonholing certain mechs. And then there would be a trade off between additional armor vs more equipment.

[OneEyed Jack]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 April 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Do regale us with your extensive knowledge of LRM boating. Could you show us your stats too?