79 replies to this topic

[Impyrium]

Righto; please don't hate me for making another thread based on the Timber Wolf, I know it got discussed to death beforehand and I'm pretty sure everyone's come to terms with it. I'm personally rather neutral on it, though frankly I would have preferred a rounder design.

But I noticed this, which I didn't see before and I don't think has been posted elsewhere:



So that fancy promotional art for the Timber Wolf is rather different to the concept art. The most obvious difference is the legs; the concept art has that pod-like lower legs, with a round styling. I like that Timber Wolf a lot more. Yet what they seem to have used as a reference for their modeller is the promotional piece, which uses squarer, somewhat awkward shaping.

Now... I'm a little worried. I like the orange concept art on the Clan page, and the rounded style suits the Clans. It's refreshing. I understand no model is ever going to be the same as its concept... but... the other orange concepts are rounded, and look great. Are they going to do the same to the other Clan 'Mechs?

Just curious to people's thoughts on the use of the promotional piece rather than the concept art, especially since we're buying the Clan 'Mechs based on the concept art...

EDIT: Unless... they starting modelling before the promotional piece was done, and the modeller may have decided to go with a square design for whatever reason. Then they may have redone the concept art to use square legs afterwards...

[Unusual Suspect]

That would be the special geography of the clan package piece.

There's another concept art where the legs are pretty much exactly the same.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Noticed that and share your wondering.

The rounded shapes were interesting from a lore perspective. The idea of an offshoot culture and offshoot technologies resulting in a different style. That's a cool flavor.

[OznerpaG]

the obvious difference to me is there's no extension of the lower leg behind the knee - that was what made the legs look so cool







walking animation:
http://walter-nest.d...rwolf-114718718

Edited by JagdFlanker, 20 April 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I agree. I'd like the legs/shins to be rounded...... I was really hoping for Clans to bring a complete new style/flavour to the mech's designs... but we're back to ol' blocky....

One plus though is that they scrapped the luggage carriers on the side of the upper arm/shoulder. Thank goodness.

JagdFlanker, on 20 April 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

the obvious difference to me is there's no extension of the lower leg behind the knee - that was what made the legs look so cool

walking animation:
http://walter-nest.d...rwolf-114718718

And yes. That iconic bit is gone / very reduced in the new design. You can see a little bit on the left leg, but it's so small you can't even see it coming from the right leg..


I wish they didn't make the femur swoop so much in the front from the hip joint, though.. It's pretty... Swoopy. Makes the legs look tall, less angular out the back. And I really hope it doesn't trot around like the stalker.

If it's one walking animation that I cannot stand, it's the Stalker's.

One of those things I loved about the Timberwolf was that seemingly long stride that kind of looks like it was always in pursuit of it's prey...

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 20 April 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Impyrium]

That's a good point, I didn't notice that one. Now I think of it that certainly gave the Timber Wolf its characteristic bird leg style. IMO the model's legs are too... balanced. The upper leg is supposed to be thinner, while the bulk is centred on the lower-lower leg as it spreads out into the talons. That works as a design because it flows, and creates a pleasing order of mass.

I respect PGI's modeller's attempts, but they don't seem to understand a lot of design principles. The legs are too linear, without detail points. But anyway, I don't want to rant about it too much, I had that chance a while back.

[Jin Ma]

MoonUnitBeta, on 20 April 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

I agree. I'd like the legs/shins to be rounded...... I was really hoping for Clans to bring a complete new style/flavour to the mech's designs... but we're back to ol' blocky....

One plus though is that they scrapped the luggage carriers on the side of the upper arm/shoulder. Thank goodness.





And yes. That iconic bit is gone / very reduced in the new design. You can see a little bit on the left leg, but it's so small you can't even see it coming from the right leg..


I wish they didn't make the femur swoop so much in the front from the hip joint, though.. It's pretty... Swoopy. Makes the legs look tall, less angular out the back. And I really hope it doesn't trot around like the stalker.

If it's one walking animation that I cannot stand, it's the Stalker's.

to be fair the clans got more rounded cockpits than the IS ever got

IS has what, the founder's jenner and griffin

[MoonUnitBeta]

Jin Ma, on 20 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

to be fair the clans got more rounded cockpits than the IS ever got

IS has what, the founder's jenner and griffin

This is true. wish it wasn't limited to just cockpits though . Really was hoping for a real different stylization. So that when you see a clan mech you go "yea, clan mech." even though you aren't familiar with the silhouette, you can still recognize it as a clan. But oh well. that's just me.

[Impyrium]

MoonUnitBeta, on 20 April 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

This is true. wish it wasn't limited to just cockpits though . Really was hoping for a real different stylization. So that when you see a clan mech you go "yea, clan mech." even though you aren't familiar with the silhouette, you can still recognize it as a clan. But oh well. that's just me.

I would think a lot of people think the same as you. I just hope PGI does as well.

[Dracol]

Concept artists never have to worry about polygon count. Modelers do how ever. It would not surprise me if the rounded legs on a Timber Wolf were inefficient polygon wise. A reduction in leg smoothness would allow more detail in the upper areas which are the most seen part of the mech.

It sucks, but its a decision all modelers have to make.... were should the most polygons go?

[Captain Stiffy]

[Impyrium]

Dracol, on 20 April 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Concept artists never have to worry about polygon count. Modelers do how ever. It would not surprise me if the rounded legs on a Timber Wolf were inefficient polygon wise. A reduction in leg smoothness would allow more detail in the upper areas which are the most seen part of the mech.

It sucks, but its a decision all modelers have to make.... were should the most polygons go?

I'm aware of that, but as someone who's at least done a little bit of modelling before, I can't accept that's a worthwhile excuse. If it truly got to the point where they didn't have enough polygons to spend on the legs, then they haven't balanced it very well. They haven't exactly been conservative on the current legs, despite the fact it's square.

I dunno. Maybe that's the case, maybe not.

And Stiffy, I don't get your joke, though I figured that was a GIF better used on CA's Rome II siege DLC...

[Captain Stiffy]

AUSwarrior24, on 20 April 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

I'm aware of that, but as someone who's at least done a little bit of modelling before, I can't accept that's a worthwhile excuse. If it truly got to the point where they didn't have enough polygons to spend on the legs, then they haven't balanced it very well. They haven't exactly been conservative on the current legs, despite the fact it's square.

I dunno. Maybe that's the case, maybe not.

And Stiffy, I don't get your joke, though I figured that was a GIF better used on CA's Rome II siege DLC...

[CtrlAltWheee]

Adding to what a post above mentioned, the clan faq confirms some model difference between the preorder mechs and the c-bill mechs. Doesn't specify if that's the rounded quality on the legs.

[Felbombling]

If you want your head to really explode, generate a side by side comparison shot of the concept artwork and the new in-game shots of the actual MadCat model. The legs turned out quite different and beefy compared to the concept art. I, for one, was disappointed.

[OznerpaG]

the more i think about it the new legs just don't cut it - the original legs had the skinny agile and mean-looking Tyrannosaurus/Raptor leg look

[GreyGriffin]

I haven't done an art analysis since the Kit Fox, but if you look at the green Timberwolf, you'll notice it's much boxier, which I presume represents the C-Bill version.

My particular bugaboo is the Playskool cockpit.

Edited by GreyGriffin, 21 April 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

you ever consider comparing the actual concept art?


Instead of the limited special edition one? Ever notice the paint job is quite different, too?

from the fullsize template

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 April 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Osric Lancaster]

^ ^ ^ (vs) v v v


http://mwomercs.com/...-shots-revealed

So yeah, more to the point; the modelers really screwed up on the legs in the screened models. They're not even using a simpler geometry, they've just sprouted tumorous growths above the calf and the legs have swollen to consume the joints instead of flowing between them. The 'Mech in the concept art looks better, even if it's not my ideal.

(Really though, why take away the smooth arms and off-set knee joint? It doesn't look better, just more dumpy and less iconic. I understand why the arms are less spaghetti-noodle thin, but you can make something look rounded and armored at the same time. It's actually really dumb to have lots of flat vertical surfaces on an armored vehicle. )

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 21 April 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[SmokinDave73]

I just wish PGI would stop making mechs like lego blocks and actually introduce some actual curves and smooth edges to mechs to bring out some characteristic differences.

PGI please bring some justice to the concept art and work on the in game model a lot more before its final release, so many of my clan/merc mates are refunding there clan packages because of the terrible looking in game Timberwolf you have shown us to advertise the package. I mean those legs are just wrong....