229 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 April 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

but tell me true, how would you feel about it being removed entirely? We argue on a lot of things, but you have been here a long time yourself, so you have perspective. We have a game, where the community and the company agree, mechs die too fast. Yet when have a mechanic in the game that not only promotes high pinpoint alpha but is buried to be a death trap for new players. Would the game not truly be better off without it?

I mean, I wouldn't be butthurt about it. I use it because I can, not because I need it.

Though to me it just nerfs mechs with lower arm actuators. The norm for CTFs is approaching all torso mounted weapons, and then you have mechs like the 733C which even though the ballistic is in the arm, it lacks the lower arm actuator.

I think you will find much of the same situation when the clans come, as many of their mechs also do not have the lower arm, and will operate very similar to arm lock all of the time. Which now they have the advantage in crits, would further increase their advantage by having a pseudo arm lock.

Edited by 3rdworld, 22 April 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 22 April 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Never had problems not hitting an assault in the arms.

that's probably because all your opponents are running with arm lock one. Believe it or not, a good brawler, can "twist" his arms too, and (well, more like dance with em) and absorb some incoming fire.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Yeah and I'm just fietsy today taking on the regular goons by going against the grain so props to you for admitting you're combative. I've spent since 2012 piloting mostly mediums and lights so all fo this is just vomit to me. Reguiitaged sigusting vomit we hve to sift through because PGI can't code out of a damned paper bag.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 22 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

It is certainly not an accident that the toggle has a key mapping. Players who have found comfortable use in the Arm Lock in tactical situations are free and welcome to continue doing so. Our goal is to offer a wide range of ways to pilot a Mech with no one particular way right or wrong (Except a few rounds I played the other night last night...Mistakes were made.)

Yeah, but then again you guys also gave us Ghost Heat as a cure all, and still refuse to acknowledge that by not sizing hardpoints, you set the game up for perma imbalance bro, ya know? Just saying! (still love ya man, but PGI's track record of admitting bad design decisions is not exactly PGI's cardinal attribute. And I know as an employee, you gotta toe the line no matter your personal opinion.)

[CeeKay Boques]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 22 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

It is certainly not an accident that the toggle has a key mapping. Players who have found comfortable use in the Arm Lock in tactical situations are free and welcome to continue doing so. Our goal is to offer a wide range of ways to pilot a Mech with no one particular way right or wrong (Except a few rounds I played the other night last night...Mistakes were made.)

Do they show you what it is and how to turn it off in the tutorial? I think we rely on this guy:



to yell at them in game and hope they learn from peers.

[WarHippy]

Roland, on 22 April 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

For some reason, the BoardsHead attracts bad pilots like flies to honey. I'm not sure exactly why, but when I see a boars head, the odds are generally going to be that its piloted by someone who is extremely bad at this game.
(queue enraged boars head pilots)

You want to fight? I think you want to fight...

[Duke Hector]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

Rant thread!

What The heck is up with the arms lock? I get n00bs and scrubs using it, but seriously, why else would you use it? Can't hold your arm and torsos together?

Just had an AWESOME match on Tourmaline. We were down a LOT. I manage to get 5 kills on my ct cored Orion, and trash their last match, a ShadowHawk before going down.

Our last mech? A BoarsHead with no armor breaches. Our guy retreats to the turrets, in full zoom the whole time, and the trashed Shad hunts him down. Our team is thinking...cool. we got this, hard fought win.

Except our Boars Head had his lasers in arms lock. Could barely track the other mech. And after an excruciating 2 minutes of fat guy circling the fox, dies, costing us the game. GG JoolNoret, you fought well, our fatty should have won, but your skill was better than his. (And hey you killed me too, though I was trashed by the time we met. Still well done, sir!)

Moral of the story.. Arms Lock is for bads, and if you use it you should feel bad. Against mobile opponents, you will lose, almost every time.

Rant over.

thing is bishop, i think alot of the people jump in, dump money on big mechs thinking we'll win with a big mech, don't even look at the key binds, and don't know how to shut that stuff off.

i myself has noticed alot of it with zoom, arms lock. and 3rd person

its SOOO painful to watch.....

Edited by Dan the Ice Man, 22 April 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dan the Ice Man, on 22 April 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

thing is bishop, i think alot of the people jump in, dump money on big mechs thinking we'll win with a big mech, don't even look at the key binds, and don't know how to shut that stuff off.

i myself has noticed alot of it with zoom, arms lock. and 3rd person

its SOOO painful to watch.....

On the other hand, it least we now have some dialogue going. who knows, maybe it will cause some common sense to sink in on some of the PTBs. Not gonna hold my breath for it, but ya know, I'm such an optimist!

[Appogee]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 April 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

all of it, I couldn't toggle armlock fast enough to track it.......

L2Toggle ...?

[Curccu]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 April 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

c'mon man, don't get prickly, lol! It's MY rant, remember!?!?!?

But yeah, it is a crutch. Be honest about that. It was designed to ease immersion for new players, and was discovered as a fast track easy switch to lock arms back to improve pinpoint damage. In a game where the Devs (and mos tof the community) are constantly stating we die too fast, and they want to increase the average TtK, It accomplishes the exact opposite man. It is a poorly thought out option form PGI (are we shocked?) that someone discovered could make their FLD Meta even more efficient. And so, the Comp Crowd, of which you guys are the pinnacle, adopted it. That doesn't change the reality of what it is, or that it has little or no place in the game.

So I apologize for baiting you in a condescending manner, because I know you are a heck of a pilot, with or without it, but I ain't retracting the general statement about armlock being a crutch.

Yes it is bad design (makes pinpoint alphas too easy and fast to aim without need to converge crosshairs) but knowing PGI it's here to stay...

[Duke Hector]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 April 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

On the other hand, it least we now have some dialogue going. who knows, maybe it will cause some common sense to sink in on some of the PTBs. Not gonna hold my breath for it, but ya know, I'm such an optimist!

i very much doubt it as well.

All the bad players have what i call the "Cancer of Duty Deathmatch Thought Process" they are incapable of thinking tactically to make decisions on their own to advance the objective (such as in conquest) and they just want to run around and kill stuff...

as far as i am concerned if you want to play a deathmatch game, there are some called Unreal Tournament (all versions), Quake, Team Fortress 2, Space Marine, Rune Classic, and of course Cancer of Duty.....

if thats all you want to do, i STRONGLY SUGGEST that people go and track down and play those games instead

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Technoviking, on 22 April 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Do they show you what it is and how to turn it off in the tutorial?

I actually launched the tutorial before my first reply in this thread, just to confirm. It crashed a little ways in, but not before it did indeed mention arm lock, with a short explanation of what it is and statement that it is "on" for the duration of the tutorial. I didn't get far enough in to confirm whether or not there's a section where they turn it off briefly to show what it's like not to use it.

I have to imagine that when a second, advanced tutorial goes live (a combat tutorial, perhaps) it'll include things like arm lock, heat management, target information (another thing I rarely see people use), etc.

[Bishop Steiner]

Curccu, on 22 April 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Yes it is bad design (makes pinpoint alphas too easy and fast to aim without need to converge crosshairs) but knowing PGI it's here to stay...

sadly true. So they need to make it more transparent to the new players it's crippling. Like I said, specifically feature it in the tutorial. Don't allow people to opt out of the tutorial. And better yet, as I said, have a point in the tutorial/cadet matches where it is visibly removed, so people can learn to play without it, and then, if needed use the toggle to snap it back in line.

But as usual, instead we get a mechanic they know is broke, refuse to acknowledge that, and make it a detriment to new players in the process. To butcher a line from Khan Ignotus..... GG, PGI, close!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 April 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[FireSlade]

Roland, on 22 April 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

For some reason, the BoardsHead attracts bad pilots like flies to honey. I'm not sure exactly why, but when I see a boars head, the odds are generally going to be that its piloted by someone who is extremely bad at this game.
(queue enraged boars head pilots)

You would think that it would attract smart pilots more with the 15 damage per arm only costing 3 tons and 3 slots
I am not big on the Atlas but I will admit that my Boar's Head is fun to use.

lockwoodx, on 22 April 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

This thread exists because 90% of the people left on this pile use assaults.

I cannot really speak for others but I primarily use heavies since I like speed+firepower+armor and anytime that I am in an Assault it feels like I am swimming in Molasses (especially the Victor). I do agree with you that the majority love their assaults and Spiders and rarely see anything in between.

[CeeKay Boques]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 22 April 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

I actually launched the tutorial before my first reply in this thread, just to confirm.

Sweet thanks, I'm at work! Well that's positive!

[Bishop Steiner]

FireSlade, on 22 April 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

You would think that it would attract smart pilots more with the 15 damage per arm only costing 3 tons and 3 slots
I am not big on the Atlas but I will admit that my Boar's Head is fun to use.


I cannot really speak for others but I primarily use heavies since I like speed+firepower+armor and anytime that I am in an Assault it feels like I am swimming in Molasses (especially the Victor). I do agree with you that the majority love their assaults and Spiders and rarely see anything in between.

I'm rather partial to Mediums myself, and in your face knife fighting. Possibly why I hold such disdain for arm lock. Why limit my ability to shoot mechs I'm NOT facing, and expose my core to enemy fire? Makes sense on a poptart (even if it's one more reason to dislike the meta), but none at all, IMO for CQB jocks, and especially ones in faster machines.

egads, could you imagine trying to run a YLW with arm lock on?

[Harathan]

Just playing devils advocate here, because some people are taking infuriatingly arrogant postions:

Yes, it is a crutch. But maybe some people need crutches. Maybe some people enjoy the game but will just never be good enough to play it without that crutch and PGI found the best middle ground they could by making it a toggle.

Those of us who wish to turn it off can do so. Those of us who wish to toggle it can do so. It *is* mentioned in the tutorial, albeit briefly.

Apart from a need to improve the tutorial and an argument that it potential impedes improvement, I'm not seeing the problem here.

EDIT - Just for info, I generally try to run with it off.

Edited by Harathan, 22 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

To be honest, I may be new but I dont need it unless im in a circumstance where an enemy mech is at an extreme angle of attack, IE jumps on a building right in front of me. I've been using my Shadowhawk 2K almost exclusively lately (just mastered and its so godly) so I dont have a use for it seeing as how my weapon batteries are in my torsos. But when I use my Orion or something similar I actively use it as I need too.

The thing about it that frustrates me is I see a lot of people trying to snapshot ppcs and ac20s with it and missing horribly. Aiming and leading those weapons isnt hard, and there isnt a viable excuse to not just patiently aim when at long range.

[BourbonFaucet]

Armlock is definitely a crutch. I have a lot of respect for ya, Bishop.

However, I am getting a bit tired of the idea being "maximize your skill" in every single game I sign up for. I'm also tired of being called "scrub" or whatever if I'm not making maxing my skill level my main goal in a game. If I wanted to do something where maximizing skill is the main goal, I'd go play tennis.

I played MW2, all three in the trilogy, and MW4 and loved those games, so I'm not new to Mechwarrior.

Typically what I'll do is unlock the arms to help me aim, and keep it locked when I don't need to fire outside the torso arc. I also use it while strafing, and to make certain trick shots.

What I'm saying is, calling armlock a crutch is fair, but hating or looking down on players for using it is not. Unless of course you are playing in a tournament or league. Then you should really try to max your skill

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 22 April 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

To be honest, I may be new but I dont need it unless im in a circumstance where an enemy mech is at an extreme angle of attack, IE jumps on a building right in front of me. I've been using my Shadowhawk 2K almost exclusively lately (just mastered and its so godly) so I dont have a use for it seeing as how my weapon batteries are in my torsos. But when I use my Orion or something similar I actively use it as I need too.

The thing about it that frustrates me is I see a lot of people trying to snapshot ppcs and ac20s with it and missing horribly. Aiming and leading those weapons isnt hard, and there isnt a viable excuse to not just patiently aim when at long range.

If you run SSRMs or LRMs on your Shawk then arm lock cripples you even if they're torso-mounted, since it makes it significantly harder to get and retain locks with your missiles. The worst is when someone has big energy guns on the arms and a lot of SSRMs on the torso and has arm lock always on, because they not only can't they hit with their lasers or whathaveyou, but they can't get a lock with their missiles.

A lot of people don't realize that locks are based on the arm reticule, not the torso crosshair.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 22 April 2014 - 10:54 AM.