21 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Instead of tying ghost heat to loadout, tie it instead to alpha damage output.

As an example, lets use the AC20, the hardest hitting weapon in the game. Anything that does more than 20 points of damage in a single salvo would be subjective to increasing amounts of ghost heat in relation to how high above 20 points of damage the salvo goes.

I'm not a math wiz so I do not know how this formula would look, but I know its possible and food for thought.

As an alternative to the current.

Edited by Egomane, 23 April 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[CheeseThief]

My Atlas has an Alpha strike of 72 damage.

Therefore your alternative is infinity worse that what we've got.

[CDLord HHGD]

CheeseThief, on 23 April 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

My Atlas has an Alpha strike of 72 damage.

Therefore your alternative is infinity worse that what we've got.

Do you fire with all weapons at once? If you constantly fire with all weapons for a full 72 point alpha, then this idea is specifically meant to counter you and your game breaking meta.

[OneEyed Jack]

First time I've ever heard of a brawler Atlas referred to as "game breaking meta." (Taking a wild stab that said Atlas has an AC20, SRMs and some Lasers)

[Joseph Mallan]

cdlord, on 23 April 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Do you fire with all weapons at once? If you constantly fire with all weapons for a full 72 point alpha, then this idea is specifically meant to counter you and your game breaking meta.

Game breaking? Isn't the game about killing the opposing Toons? His 72 damage Alpha sounds as if it is exactly what the game is all about.

[Mechteric]

Directly tying just to Alpha damage seems a bit arbitrary, not to mention not entirely in universe. This actually gave me an idea to introduce something based on energy capacity of the fusion engine, and if you go over that capacity is where you get a linear % of extra heat to compensate. I'll be starting a new thread for it though since is going to be a large write up and different from the OP proposal.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 23 April 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost heat has nothing tying it to the Universe as well Capper.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Ghost heat has nothing tying it to the Universe as well Capper.

Yep, hence I prefer power limitation solution, since it ties more with the Universe.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 23 April 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Yep, hence I prefer power limitation solution, since it ties more with the Universe.

I don't remember ever reading that the fusion reactor had problems powering weapons anywhere?

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

I don't remember ever reading that the fusion reactor had problems powering weapons anywhere?

I read it in one of the old novels, Blood Legacy. Where Vlad and Phelan fought in a Trial of Position. Vlad couldn't use the Executioner's full alpha with dual Gauss+LLasers due to power limitation and the mech chain fired the Gauss.

Granted, it was mostly due to Gauss requiring a lot of power, but PGi can implement such mechanic to other weapon systems. Makes more sense than Ghost Heat, anyway.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 April 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[FlipOver]

Ghost heat shouldn't even exist.

And AC20 is a bad example if you consider ammo per ton, the weapons weight and slots used + range and damage after 350m. No need to add more heat penalties to it imo.

BTW, a salvo of less than 20 can be a crusher if you pair AC2's and (U)AC5's. And by that, you are effectively requesting to remove the ghost heat for a dakka build.

Other than this, your post is just fine i guess.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 23 April 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

I read it in one of the old novels, Blood Legacy. Where Vlad and Phelan fought in a Trial of Position. Vlad couldn't use the Executioner's full alpha with dual Gauss+LLasers due to power limitation and the mech chain fired the Gauss.

Granted, it was mostly due to Gauss requiring a lot of power, but PGi can implement such mechanic to other weapon systems. Makes more sense than Ghost Heat, anyway.

You memory must be better than mine...

[Mechteric]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Ghost heat has nothing tying it to the Universe as well Capper.

I know, thats why my proposal at least has some roots in the universe

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

You memory must be better than mine...

I reread the old novels a lot. Can't swallow the Dark Age crap. They should ret-con the timeline from 3067 onwards. Especially the Jihad.

CapperDeluxe, on 23 April 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

I know, thats why my proposal at least has some roots in the universe

Yeah, that's very similar to the power limitation idea with engine size flavor. Still better than GH.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 April 2014 - 06:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

General consensus of TT players everywhere El!

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

Game breaking? Isn't the game about killing the opposing Toons? His 72 damage Alpha sounds as if it is exactly what the game is all about.

If you are defending the use of Alpha Strikes as the primary mode of attack, then yes it is meta and game and (I'll add) lore breaking.

I had the same thought for power requirement restriction for Gauss Rifles as the heat they generate is negligible. Missiles are not affected by this as they are not a direct fire weapon.

I still think this would nerf the bad dakka builds because it'll penalize multiple high caliber ACs from firing at the same time. I have no problem with the constant stream of incoming small caliber shells (Blackjack and Jagermech), the issue I am addressing is the high alpha pinpoint one-shot destroy builds (dual AC/20, quad AC/5 UAC5, Dual Gauss, PPC+AC5 combos). When chain fired, even these builds are within spec and this allowed. But you alpha strike and you gotta be careful and only use as a last ditch hail Mary.

Edited by cdlord, 23 April 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

cdlord, on 23 April 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Do you fire with all weapons at once? If you constantly fire with all weapons for a full 72 point alpha, then this idea is specifically meant to counter you and your game breaking meta.

It's funny, because the 72 is likely a result of missiles...and a 30-pt pinpoint meta of PPCs and AC's in more "game-breaking meta" then his 72 pt alpha.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 23 April 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have no problem facing or using the AC20 builds, but have no interest in using or nerfing the AC5 builds. I am here to kill your toons so I can have fun. I do not judge my fun on if you are having fun. Die and quit whining!

[CDLord HHGD]

Ghost Badger, on 23 April 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

It's funny, because the 72 is likely a result of missiles...and a 30-pt pinpoint meta of PPCs and AC's in more "game-breaking meta" then his 72 pt alpha.

You are correct and I did comment above that missiles were not subject to this since they are spread and not direct fire (SRMs kind of are, but are also a spread damage missile so still omitted).

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

I have no problem facing or using the AC20 builds, but have no interest in using or nerfing the AC5 builds. I am here to kill your toons so I can have fun. I do not judge my fun on if you are having fun. Die and quit whining!

See you on the battlefield!

[AlmightyAeng]

cdlord, on 23 April 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

You are correct and I did comment above that missiles were not subject to this since they are spread and not direct fire (SRMs kind of are, but are also a spread damage missile so still omitted).


See you on the battlefield!

It sounds like your goal here is to get people chain-firing more often, and/or in smaller groups, with a full 'alpha' being a conscious roll of the dice where you know a shutdown is very likely to occur.

Honestly, I think a higher rate of dissipation and a much smaller heat-cap would achieve this easier. In both solutions, though, you'll have people 'game' the system by firing the meta in two strokes instead of one...or by a sudden resurgence of the use of more gauss.

Still, I wish PGI would look at it.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 23 April 2014 - 07:25 AM.