401 replies to this topic

[Eglar]

With the "SRM"-Fix at the end of this month, LRMs will also be granted a much better hit detection. We'll see how this goes.

[Kjudoon]

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Look, I will agree with you on buffing AMS ammo by 50% (to 1500 rounds) because why not, it can't hurt. But from all your previous posts in your old thread you started :

Errrmmmm... that's 1500 missiles shot down per ton. No. absolutely not.

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You clearly have an agenda to nerf LRMs. You don't want people to be able to take more than 2 launchers because you yourself said you did over 1000 damage with an ALRM20 in a banshee and take your Stalker out and make 280k C-Bills a match. BUT, here in your own post, you trash on people who take them:

All that damage has been made by a single LRM20? Horsecrap. With hit ratios of less than 40% (more towards 30%) that means he would have had to fire about 3500 missiles from the worst spread launcher in the game. Heck, with my LRM20+artemis on my shadowhawk, I average only 200-400dmg. The only reason I got a 1200dmg game was because it was 40 tubes and 1980 missiles, and I still did almost 100dmg with my single ML. that's still an unbelievable hit ratio of over 50% for LRMs. That's extremely good.

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We also gave you so many tips in the your old thread that you haven't even tried to follow. So keep on your agenda to get LRMs nerfed but stop wasting space here and instead talk about your points you made before:

The agenda is to remove indirect fire and guidance from the game. Make no illusions about it. Everything else is just babysteps to that goal.

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More AMS ammo
Let MGs and Lasers shoot down LRMs
Get more ECM capable mechs into the game.

No. Fix AMS to not target missiles not fired at the mech with that AMS system and have scenery block it (as well as know that it can't fire through scenery and I might reconsider my stance.

LOL... sure... do that. I'll be happy to let you stand and get hit while trying to shoot one or two missiles out of the air.

NO! ECM is massively OP. Fix ECM back to more realistic levels where it does not provide a sphere of influence to non-ECM mech, fix TAG so it actually WORKS on ECM mechs and BAP starts countering it again... then yes... more ECM mechs.

Eglar, on 24 April 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

With the "SRM"-Fix at the end of this month, LRMs will also be granted a much better hit detection. We'll see how this goes.

So that's why my damage and efficiency is going up... Derp. I didn't consider that. Maybe I won't need missiles going 200m/s. Then I keep my relock guidance too. Hmmmmmmmmmm...

[Appogee]

Jonathan Paine, on 24 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

However, here is an alternate explanation:
- People who hang back and stay away from the fight can more easily pick off damaged mechs, and are less likely to get killed.
- People with long range weapons are at less risk than people with brawler builds.

I completely agree. In fact, exactly the same logic applies to Boating 3 Gausses.

All I have shared in this thread is that a mini LRM boat using remote locks achieved a high k/d and respectable damage without a whole lot of trouble. (In fact, I'd say, a whole lot less effort than trying to achieve similar scores using dual PPCs or Twin Gausses.)

So if people think that's ok, then I guess it's ok. Personally, I bought a Golden Boy last week during the sale and I'm putting LRM5s on it too, to farm CBills in Armchair Mode. May as well keep lurming it up til something more interesting to do comes along.

Joseph Mallan, on 24 April 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

6 LRM5s have a faster Cyclic rate than 2 LRM 15 so 6 will throw more ordinance faster that the 2. There is a volume bonus to the damage being thrown.

Third time's a charm. Maybe Kilo 40 will get it if enough people tell him.

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Appogee]

Barantor, on 24 April 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

You aren't winning with just LRMs though, you are adding to your teams success with fire support which is the purpose of LRM mechs anyway.

But I AM winning with LRMs. The team is winning through its combined efforts, as is always the case.

Barantor, on 24 April 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

If you don't like the way they work, fine then don't use them, but they are hardly OP in their current configuration.

Who said they were OP? Not me. I said they are OP when boated. When I can score 3 k/d and an average of 400 damage with just 5LRM5s, I can only imagine how well the guys who are boating LRM80 must be doing. (Maybe next I'll go full Leeroy Lurmer in an Awesome or Stalker and see how that goes.)

Again, it all comes down to what kind of game experience you want MechWarrior to be, I suppose. People are entitled to want the game to be one of raining - and being rained on - by remote locked missiles from afar, if that's the game they want to play.

As I have done for the past few weeks, with many extra millions of CBills in the bank, thanks very much, kerching.

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Third time's a charm. Maybe Kilo 40 will get it if enough people tell him.

LOL... I gave credit to being ninjaed at least!

As for LRMs... I guess it depends on the player/groups motivation. I'm here to kill you all, without breaking the Ares Convention. So if I can help kill you all from 500+ Meters back over the hill and through the woods, while my brawler buddies are up close sticking it in and twisting. Everyone on my side is having fun. Dying, even in a game, ain't supposed to be fun. I can't make everyone happy so Me and Mine first. Natural order and all that.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 April 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[Appogee]

Eglar, on 24 April 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

With the "SRM"-Fix at the end of this month, LRMs will also be granted a much better hit detection. We'll see how this goes.

Great, I'll be able to afford a private dropship at this rate.

[Kjudoon]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

I completely agree. In fact, exactly the same logic applies to Boating 3 Gausses.

All I have shared in this thread is that a mini LRM boat using remote locks achieved a high k/d and respectable damage without a whole lot of trouble. (In fact, I'd say, less effort than using dual PPCs or Twin Gausses.

So if people think that's ok, then I guess it's ok. Personally, I bought a Golden Boy last week during the sale and I'm putting LRM5s on it too, to farm CBills in Armchair Mode. May as well lurm it up while the sun shines.

Third time's a charm. Maybe Kilo 40 will get it if enough people tell him.

Let's look at the key word there: boating.

Boating any weapon limits the mech's functionality by specialization. This is a fact of reality. When you specialize in something, you increase effectivness with that specialty but decrease ability outside of it. Generalist mechs do nothing particularly well but they are prepared for all eventualities.

In a game where specialization is possible, as with real life, you are going to have and want units like this. The LRMboat. No duh, it's going to be in a lot of trouble when facing off against brawlers. The AC boat has problems with anything it cannot see, aka the LRM boats. Brawlers need to get close, so both LRMs and ACs are deadly to them unless they can close range.

We have LRM boats, SRM boats, Streakboats, PPCboats, MLboats, ERLLboats, ACboats... boat = specialization. Specialization = need for teamplay. The LRM boat that brawls, dies or is not an effective LRMboat. The SRMboat must brawl or it cannot be functional. The ACboat must have range and line of sight or it is not in its element. You can see the pattern here.

There is no getting rid of this the same way there is no way to getting rid of the specialization advantage in real life. Accept it, know your chosen role and prosper.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 April 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Appogee]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 April 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

LOL... I gave credit to being ninjaed at least!

Sorry, wasn't meaning to seem critical. I am honestly hoping that, if enough people tell him the same thing, Kilo 40 will realise he's wrong and maybe even open his mind to other realities.

[Appogee]

Kjudoon, on 24 April 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

There is no getting rid of this the same way there is no way to getting rid of the specialization advantage in real life. Accept it, know your chosen role and prosper.

And yet, PGI went to great lengths to stop boating of PPCs, and lasers, and AC2s, introducing a whole new archaic Ghost Heat mechanic to stop them. (While Ghost Heat applies to LRMs, not once did it ever stop me boating LRMs in my Easy Chair Kintaro.)

And before anyone suggests it: I did NOT boat PPCs, nor do I want a return to boating of PPCs, or any weapon. I think the game is best when people have diverse loadouts, including LRMs.

Kjudoon, on 24 April 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Accept it, know your chosen role and prosper.

Hell no!

Up until recently, my chosen role was a brawler, trying to land ACs despite the lag incurred by a perpetual 230 ping. I was doing pretty well at that, but boy it took a lot of thinking and aiming and maneuvering work.

Now, some days, I'm sitting in an armchair with a Mint Julep in one hand, spamming missiles that find their way to targets I can't even see - sweet!

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Kjudoon]

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Hell no! Up until recently, my chosen role was a brawler, trying to land ACs despite the lag incurred by a perpetual 230 ping.

Now I'm sitting in an armchair with a Mint Julep in one hand, spamming missiles that find their way to targets I can't even see.

Sweet.

Wait... is that a complaint? It looks like it's a complaint. It smells like a complaint... But it's a good thing...

I r teh confuzzed.

Goes to prove that those with high pings and low FPS can play the game if they choose the right weapon.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 April 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Appogee]

Kjudoon, on 24 April 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

I r teh confuzzed.

My work here is done Time for me to earn another million CBills in my Golden FarmBoy Lurmtaro.

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

My work here is done

You work for the government, don't you. I was confused before you came here. I'm confused now but you're getting all the credit and a contract?

Someone clip me off a piece of THAT racket!

[Appogee]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Time for me to earn another million CBills in my Golden FarmBoy Lurmtaro.

1st Match
Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
600 damage, match score of 73, 1 kill and 5 assists, despite team losing 9-12.
3rd highest scorer for my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.
Team

2nd Match
Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
436 damage, match score of 66, 2 kills and 6 assists. Team won 12-2.
3rd highest scorer for my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.

3rdMatch
Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
431 damage, match score of 53, 2 kills and 2 assists, despite team losing 4-12.
Highest scorer on my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.

Golden FarmBoy Now Elited
13 wins and 12 losses.
Average across 25 matches = 413 per match.
Average k/d for the Mech of 2.25 and rising.


Make of these results what you will. I am just posting my experiences here.

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Daekar]

LRM efficacy varies drastically with Elo. Take that Lurmtaro against meta-packing poptarts who know how to use cover, and you'll be lucky to break 200 damage.

I have found that missile-centric mechs are too feast or famine for my tastes. I want to be effective no matter where we drop or what the enemy brings - ergo, LRMs are backup only.

SRM improvements will be welcome, as the missile hardpoints wouldn't be as much of a liability.

[Bilbo]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Match 1

Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
600 damage, match score of 73, 1 kill and 5 assists, despite team losing 9-12.
3rd highest scorer for my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.
Team

Match 2
Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
436 damage, match score of 66, 2 kills and 6 assists. Team won 12-2.
3rd highest scorer for my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.

Match 3
Non-Elited Golden FarmBoy with 5LRM5, 3ML. No Artemis, TAG or BAP.
431 damage, match score of 53, 2 kills and 2 assists, despite team losing 4-12.
Highest scorer on my team, 4th highest scorer in the match.

--

Average calculated damage across 25 matches so far = 418. Average k/d for the Mech is only 2 at this stage.

Make of it what you will. I am just posting my experiences here.

I average a over 300 in a brawling Atlas that has non existent hit registration on half it's weapons most of the time. 418 really isn't all that impressive.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I average a over 300 in a brawling Atlas that has non existent hit registration on half it's weapons most of the time. 418 really isn't all that impressive.

[Bilbo]

Ghost Badger, on 24 April 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

The point being when the SRMs start working all the time, the average damage should go back up to ~700.

[Appogee]

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I average a over 300 in a brawling Atlas that has non existent hit registration on half it's weapons most of the time. 418 really isn't all that impressive.

Who said 418 was "impressive"...? Not me. But in what way is your averaging 300 in an Atlas - the Mech with the highest armor and tonnage in the game, a full two weight classes higher than a Medium Mech - supposed to be a comparison, anyway?

FWIW I've averaged 425 in an Atlas since the day I started playing MWO. Not at all impressive, though it includes the period when I was just learning how to play the game, so hopefully the average of the last 50 games was effectively much higher.



Personally, I thought the most interesting thing about the stats I posted from my three games tonight was that, even in games where my team gets rolled over, and there are only 4 decent players on my team, the unElited Golden Farmboy still gets a couple of kills and and 400+ damage.

Also interesting, the game where I was on the lucky team doing the stomping, I did pretty much the same damage, not more.

Anyway, it's only three games... can't draw too many conclusions.

Edited by Appogee, 24 April 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Bilbo]

Appogee, on 24 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Who said 418 was "impressive"...? Not me. But in what way is your averaging 300 in an Atlas - the Mech with the highest armor and tonnage in the game, a full two weight classes higher than a Medium Mech - supposed to be a comparison, anyway?

FWIW I've averaged 425 in an Atlas since the day I started playing MWO. Not at all impressive, though it includes the period when I was just learning how to play the game, so hopefully the average of the last 50 games was effectively much higher.

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

The point being when the SRMs start working all the time, the average damage should go back up to ~700.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

The point being when the SRMs start working all the time, the average damage should go back up to ~700.

Did the title of this thread ninja into "SRM flooding the new fotm" while I wasn't looking? You say his average isn't impressive, and 'prove' it with a lesser number of your own, with an entirely different weapons system...then assume it'll somehow double when/if they fix that completely different weapons system.

Bilbo, I like a lot of the things you say...but this one has me pretty stumped. Lol.