106 replies to this topic

[Screech]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I am curious how that's going to go. I keep hearing a lot of the Premades are going to be running Assaults/Heavies to make sure that the top end of their force is competant.

So that'll leave solo's to fill the medium slots.

That is the way I read things as well. I only pug so I play either lights or heavies as they typically the most self-sufficient. I will however switch over to assaults next week and see exactly what happens in terms of wait times and match play.

I also think that the Assault mode will take a hit as well as the majority of light puggers will opt-out of Assault mode and they will have trouble filling games as fast as the other modes.

[Pygar]

Ironically timed question is ironically timed....

Next week when the 3 rule comes into play, Mediums are going to be guaranteed spots on the battlefield. Mediums are better than many people think, and with firm caps on how many heavy and assaults can be on the other side Mediums just get that much better. (In fact, pretty sure that the "3 rule" has everything to do with mediums getting left behind by "tonnage creep")

Myself, I spent a lot of the last several weeks making sure I had mechs I could fly in all classes before the 3 rule came out- but I especially made sure I have good Medium options by learning to run BlackJack and now this week Wolverine.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Charons Little Helper, on 23 April 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

True - but the Treb is only 23% lighter - but a lot skinnier. Frankly - if you look at the cubed to square ratio - the mediums aren't too small in comparison to heavies/assaults - it's lights that are too small in comparison to everything else.

(though of note - I actually think that every mech in this game is oversized - to compare to a real life thing - an Abrams tank is just over 66 tons - and it's nowhere near as big as a heavy mech even taking into account it's long instead of tall)

While I appreciate the concept, the skinnier does not save the Treb.

The height aspect is just brutal, and the fact that it doesn't take much ot hit a medium mech in the chest is a problem.

In fact, the only mechs I have to really work at hitting specific spots is Cicada's and lights.

It's all out of whack.

[MeiSooHaityu]

xLAVAx, on 23 April 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

I have a baseline for speed, that keeps my "in the game."

Lights - 150
Mediums - 100
Heavies - 80
Assaults - 60

That's a bit high for me.
Lights - 130+
Mediums - 90+
Heavies - 75+ (prefer 80+ though)
Assaults - 55+

I like the Hunchbacks for short range engagements (4G: 1 A/C20, 2MLasers, 2MGs) or (4P: 9MLasers). I have the Shadowhawks for more longer range engagements (2 A/C2s and 1 A/C5)

Nothing quite like a ninja Hunchback popping out of cover with and popping an enemy with an A/C20 round to the face.

[Jun Watarase]

Cents were never good. They were always slightly too large, too slow and had too few hardpoints.

Oh sure you can have a AC10 or 20 in your arm. Thats great, except thats almost all your firepower, on a poorly armored and easy to hit arm. People quickly learnt to shoot off the arm and then you would have a cent left with two lasers and basically a few buggy SRMs.

Also one of the reasons why the dragon was never good.

This was all well known by the playerbase of course, then what did PGI do? Release the yen lo wang. AC20, 2 med lasers. That was all it had.

It was a close range mech that couldnt go toe to toe with anything good. And it was easily disarmed. So many people bought the YLW...i dont know why....maybe they had dreams of being the next justin allard or whatever. The rest of the playerbase had a grand time shooting off the AC20 and watching YLWs walk around impotently firing their 2 med lasers.

People pointed this out to PGI, they never acknowledged there was a problem, and thats why we dont see YLWs today.

We dont see many cents either.

Mediums were always supposed to be cheap mechs that could do more fighting than lights. That doesnt apply in MWO where cost is irrelevant to anyone except a newbie. With 12vs12, you want the best mechs on the field, not the most cost effective. Theres no reason to bring a cheap $5 mil medium when you can bring a fully upgraded $10 million heavy that is way more effective.

The only reason why lights are used at all is because they have a built in lag shield, that lets them tank more damage than an Atlas. Without that shield, well, imagine if all you had to do was mouse over, click, and 100% of your damage would be done to the CT. Light mechs would run at a group of mechs, then would vanish the moment they all fired their weapons.

[3rdworld]

Jun Watarase, on 23 April 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Cents were never good.

Wat?

[mogs01gt]

Jun Watarase, on 23 April 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Cents were never good. They were always slightly too large, too slow and had too few hardpoints.
Oh sure you can have a AC10 or 20 in your arm. Thats great, except thats almost all your firepower, on a poorly armored and easy to hit arm. People quickly learnt to shoot off the arm and then you would have a cent left with two lasers and basically a few buggy SRMs.
Also one of the reasons why the dragon was never good.
This was all well known by the playerbase of course, then what did PGI do? Release the yen lo wang. AC20, 2 med lasers. That was all it had.
It was a close range mech that couldnt go toe to toe with anything good. And it was easily disarmed. So many people bought the YLW...i dont know why....maybe they had dreams of being the next justin allard or whatever. The rest of the playerbase had a grand time shooting off the AC20 and watching YLWs walk around impotently firing their 2 med lasers.
People pointed this out to PGI, they never acknowledged there was a problem, and thats why we dont see YLWs today.
We dont see many cents either.
Mediums were always supposed to be cheap mechs that could do more fighting than lights. That doesnt apply in MWO where cost is irrelevant to anyone except a newbie. With 12vs12, you want the best mechs on the field, not the most cost effective. Theres no reason to bring a cheap $5 mil medium when you can bring a fully upgraded $10 million heavy that is way more effective.
The only reason why lights are used at all is because they have a built in lag shield, that lets them tank more damage than an Atlas. Without that shield, well, imagine if all you had to do was mouse over, click, and 100% of your damage would be done to the CT. Light mechs would run at a group of mechs, then would vanish the moment they all fired their weapons.

OMG finally someone on these forums gets it!!!!!! great post!

Charons Little Helper, on 23 April 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

True - but the Treb is only 23% lighter - but a lot skinnier. Frankly - if you look at the cubed to square ratio - the mediums aren't too small in comparison to heavies/assaults - it's lights that are too small in comparison to everything else.
(though of note - I actually think that every mech in this game is oversized - to compare to a real life thing - an Abrams tank is just over 66 tons - and it's nowhere near as big as a heavy mech even taking into account it's long instead of tall)

Well that is also true that lights are too small.

I dont think Mechs are oversized, I think the tonnage doesnt match up to their size but that is irrelevant.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 April 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Jun Watarase, on 23 April 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Cents were never good. They were always slightly too large, too slow and had too few hardpoints.

You must be new, and weren't here when SRM's were good.

Oh wait...you are a founder....wait what?

Centurion's were the defacto medium back before the SRM nerfs. It was all about 3 SRM 6's and a pair of MLas.

Then you zombie like a champ, because you were near impossible to kill.

Centurion's used to be pretty damn good.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

You must be new, and weren't here when SRM's were good.
Oh wait...you are a founder....wait what?
Centurion's were the defacto medium back before the SRM nerfs. It was all about 3 SRM 6's and a pair of MLas.
Then you zombie like a champ, because you were near impossible to kill.
Centurion's used to be pretty damn good.

Good mechs are ones that are good all the time especially for new players. IMO Cents do not fit that description.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

mogs01gt, on 23 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Good mechs are ones that are good all the time especially for new players. IMO Cents do not fit that description.

My first mech in this game, period, was a Centurion in 2012. And it was awesome back in the day.

I think by the time you started playing SRM's were complete trash, so you would've missed that.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

3rdworld, on 23 April 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

What's that supposed to mean? You think I'm making things up?

[mogs01gt]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think by the time you started playing SRM's were complete trash, so you would've missed that.

Correct!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

mogs01gt, on 23 April 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Correct!

Well think about 3 SRM 6's, with no HSR issues and splash damage multiplying their damage 10 fold. And put them on a mech that moved around 100kph, and had the best hitboxes in the game.

And that was the Centurion. It certainly wasn't the best mech in the game. But you can't say that it was "never good" as Jun indicated.

If you got behind a mech, you were lighting them the hell up.

EDIT: Oh I forgot, SRM's used to have a better spread too.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

I love mediums. They are my favorite weight class. The Hunchback is my favorite MWO medium.

[mogs01gt]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Well think about 3 SRM 6's, with no HSR issues and splash damage multiplying their damage 10 fold. And put them on a mech that moved around 100kph, and had the best hitboxes in the game.
And that was the Centurion. It certainly wasn't the best mech in the game. But you can't say that it was "never good" as Jun indicated.If you got behind a mech, you were lighting them the hell up.EDIT: Oh I forgot, SRM's used to have a better spread too.

I understand but history is history and now is now. It's safe to say in the grand scheme of things, the Cent wasnt a "good" mech.

PS.
All I do is pilot a Cent!!

[Murzao]

Back in the day if you didn't get 1000 damage/3 kills with a 3SRM6 Cent you were bad.

Awesomes are not bad because they're giants.......they're bad because they're fat. Cents had a pencil thin CT and well, anyone that can pilot properly can still roflstomp enemies in a Cent because of the shield arms.

People who say lights are good, are just bad at aiming......I popped a few locusts in 1 AC20 round in my 107kph Wang they spontaneously combusted. I pop Jenners/Ravens/Firestarters pretty easy in a Cent.....going 100 makes it pretty easy.

Actually anyone who says lights>mediums is bad at aiming....and says heavies+assaults>mediums........is also bad at aiming haha..because mediums can start/stop peekshoot like pros, and can circle on par with lights.

You can still get 700+ damage multikill games pretty easy with the right Cent builds:) Even vs premade poptart teams.

(oh and 3ASRM6s @ 100kph>>>those pesky splattcats back in the day lol stay at 200m and win every time)

Edited by Murzao, 23 April 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

mogs01gt, on 23 April 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I understand but history is history and now is now. It's safe to say in the grand scheme of things, the Cent wasnt a "good" mech.

PS.
All I do is pilot a Cent!!

No, in the grand scheme of things, you can say the Cent isn't a good mech now. Before it was.

Just like the Splatcat was amazing before, and isn't now.

Even Awesome's and Dragon's had their times to shine.

[mogs01gt]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

No, in the grand scheme of things, you can say the Cent isn't a good mech now. Before it was.
Just like the Splatcat was amazing before, and isn't now.
Even Awesome's and Dragon's had their times to shine.

You are referring to mechs that are strong in a certain meta. Meta mechs are actually bad because they lose favor soo quickly. Mechs that are good are the ones that are always relevant in all meta's.

Again that is just a difference of opinion on what the term "good" means.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 April 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[3rdworld]

Rebas Kradd, on 23 April 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

What's that supposed to mean? You think I'm making things up?

No, I am saying that being in a low elo and that leading people to believe things are balanced. Low elo would be blissfully ignorant of the balance or more specifically the lack of it, because almost any mech with any weapon works fine there.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

mogs01gt, on 23 April 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

You are referring to mechs that are strong in a certain meta. Meta mechs are actually bad because they lose favor soo quickly. Mechs that are good are the ones that are always relevant in all meta's.

Again that is just a difference of opinion on what the term "good" means.

No, I'm referring to times during this games lifespan, where these mechs were the top of the heap.

But you'd have to know about things like Splash Damage, Knock Downs, etc. to understand. And you seem like you are very new to this game.