62 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Now, my curiosity is peaked. When it comes to clan ultra burst firing, if you "double tap," will it be burst, pause, burst, or a continuous stream of bullets?

[CyclonerM]

I suppose the first. The second would be more like RACs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Don't have time to listen to this at work, but I'm confused. UAC 20 firing 4 AC5s? That makes it worse then a IS AC 20...

When Pariah said burst fire, I thought he meant 2 AC20 shells fired in "rapid" succession, then standard AC20 reload time (or longer if needed).

[FireSlade]

Raiyuken, on 23 April 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

I still believe lasers shouldn't retain it's current model. Understand that this game is an online game and thus when a weapon requiring more burn time meaning it would miss most of the time. And on top of that, most users of energy weapons are light mechs and they do not have the luxury to have more DHSs when they required Endo and Ferrous.

Normal Lasers should use current Pulse Laser model whereas Pulse Laser should use a capacitor model where you can discharge the beam up to a upper limit stronger than Normal Laser. For example:

Medium Laser 5 DMG 0.5s burn time CD 3.0s.
M. Pulse Laser 7 DMG 0.75s capacitor capacity Recharge rate of 0.25s capacity/s.

Both should have same min/max range as reduce range should strictly be reserved for X-Pulse Lasers in the future.

It was always illogical that a missile would do no DMG sub 180m but would could still be critically hit. So yes allow something like a alternate mode like 40% rack capacity under the logic that by firing more than 40% missile salvo will cause chain explosion from the target to the launchers.

As far as Ultra AC goes this is a welcomed idea of a dual mode and burst fire as I find the current UAC model is more of the Rotary AC model. LBX should not be allowed to fire like a normal AC as it would make AC really redundant, should there be a need give it a long range mode make it a ring with less spread but there must still be spread.

Gauss currently has too many Cons compared to its Pros. Weighing, requiring so many critical slots and being highly volatile on top of that add a charge up time would render the weapon really weak compared to other ballistic weapons. Remove the charge up increase the CD and a slight DMG increase but disable weapon being usable while being airborne. (Hence preventing pop-tarting)

PPC should be allowed to turn off sub 90m protection where point blank PPC fire would deal damage to an upwards of 1-50% from 90m to 1m. Whereas ER-PPC should remain it's sub 90m protection have a 25% heat increased compared to a PPC. In addition to that PPC hits beyond it's max damage range will deal dissipated splash damage. For example:
860m PPC to CT = 10 DMG CT
1200m PPC to the CT = 10*0.61 = 6.1*0.75 = 4.5DMG on CT 6.1*.25/5 = 0.3 DMG on H LT RT LL RL

As far for Omnislots, it should have one weakness is that internals have 2 times easier to be critical destroyed once it is cored, where the chances of being destroyed just as the last scrap of armor is shaved off. This is to compensate for its benefit of being flexible.

Current machine gun model should also be changed too. Remove the twice the critical on core but instead change it to twice the critical chance should the machine guns hit a laser burn zone as long as there is a glow. This would make lights using them being more viable bringing SLs to "light" up for better damage instead of getting builds where people equip machine guns just to be piranhas swarming into cored mechs. This model would at least make machine gun viable when there is still armor on the target.

Moreover it is also understood that Clan XL engine doesn't fail should one Side torso be destroyed. However, asking for 2 Torsos to be destroyed is just asking for too much. I would say put one of the following in the event of LT or RT being destroyed:

-Mech can no longer perform Torso turn.
-Mech will be unable to function should one Side Torso be destroyed along with a leg.
-Mech will lose 50% of it's internal heat sinks.

Okay to go on what you said:

• We are talking about Clan tech not the IS tech so MPLs would do 7 damage not 6 for the same weight as the IS version and more range so a longer burn time would offset this some. Also remember that a longer burn time = more heat and Clan mechs are going to run very hot.
  
• LRMs having a min range makes sense since every missile that we have today has that min range even the RPG7 does too. What does not make sense is the ramping of damage depending on that window. The warhead would either be armed or not armed, not the half armed that they are suggesting. I think a 100 meter min range, less maneuverability, and the staggered fire is a good way to balance them being half the weight and keep them from being super SSRMs.
  
• I agree that the current IS UAC5 looks like a Rotary AC5 but the mechanic is like how the TT did it. Instead of being able to fire twice in 10 seconds we have it able to fire twice in 1.66 which I think might be a tad too fast to begin with. AC2/5s should aim for 2-2.5 DPS while AC10s 3 DPS and AC20 5 dps. That way they still have the heat, front loaded damage, and range advantage over energy but energy weapons can still keep up. Plus AC2 would run cooler with a slower fire rate meaning less heat sinks are needed.
  
• Clan LBX ACs, as there is no Clan AC should have the ammo select. They weight the same as a UAC but still allow the Clans to have a pinpoint weapon balanced with the cost. I think that it should be separate ammo to do this so 2 tons LBX ammo does not mean that I get 2 tons cluster/solid rounds but 1 ton of each or 2 tons of 1 type.
  
• Gauss would be fine with the charge up if they would remove the 90% chance for 20 damage when it is destroyed and then made it so that it could hold the charge for 5 seconds but if the GR is destroyed while fully charged then it deals 100% chance for 40 damage. They could go a step further and say that the charge level modifies the chance for an explosion. Ex: the GR is destroyed at 44% charge means that there is a 44% chance that it explodes and deals 40 damage. Simple.
  
• Omni slots already have a weakness, you cannot change the engine, crit slot location, DHS location, armor type and chassis type. So the Timber Wolf gets stuck with an 375 engine that does 81-89 kph weighing 26.5 tons when a 340 XL (6 tons lighter) that does 73-80 kph would be enough. Or a Dire Wolf being slow as hell at 48.6-53.3 kph.
  
• Machine guns are in a good place useless against armor and deadly without. Buff it much more and it becomes the meta instead of a useful weapon. Remember in online gaming buffing something so that the little guy can have an edge means that the bigger guys will use it too and abuse it. So making it good against armor means that an Banshee or Jagermech can strip armor faster making kills quicker and they can fit LLs + bigger engines + lots more armor where as the lights have to make sacrifices.
  
• Clan XL engines need to offset the ST kills by requiring both sides to off set the fact that Omnimechs are so gimped to begin with. Imaging being stuck with a 400XL engine on the Boar's Head and cannot twist, aim or move because they lost the ST. Might as well as died for all the use that mech would be. The only penalties that they should see is a reduced speed and a decrease in heat dissipation.

Raiyuken, on 23 April 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

Just finished the listening to the recording. Well what was stated if I'm not mistaken that Clan UAC 20 will fire in a chain-burst of 4 rounds of AC5. Current ER PPC doesn't have a minimum range either, it's just that should be an option for PPCs to turn of it's safety feature just as it is stated in Battletech to allow for sub 90m firing.

Due to balancing reason there should be a difference between Clan LBX, IS AC and IS LBX. The Clan LBX can be of same efficiency as the IS LBX but when switched to cluster fire should not have the same pinpoint accuracy as the IS AC, cause that would invalidate IS AC and IS LBX. Thus leaving a food for thought as to would you want this weapon to be sort-of good long range sniping weapon but able switch mode when the death dancers comes closing in. Still I do think that even if Clan LBX have the same efficiency as an IS LBX would invalidate IS LBX, so maybe a quirk like wider spread pattern for the Clan LBX.

Okay... What?!

Clan ERPPCs (as there is no PPCs) cost 15 heat. Same with IS ERPPCs so why should the 10 heat PPC have an advantage with less heat but no min range? That is just asking to allow people to abuse the meta more even with the risk of damage. Part of what allows us to over come it is that we can close the range and make them less of a threat. But if they can turn off the safeties then they are still a huge threat all for less heat.

It has been stated and hinted at many times that Clan tech is not compatible in MWO. So if you want the Clan tech, well you have to use an Omnimech and if you want an IS weapon then you have to use a IS mech. The only thing that select fire does for the LBX that I can see being an issue is that it may make UACs obsolete with being able to pick direct damage over burst damage for the same tons/slots.

What scares me with the balancing that PGI is doing is that Omnimechs have a huge downside with less customizing than Battlemechs and the pro to it being more damage for less weight.
But the Clans also used Battlemechs so if they add those imagine, IS customizing (engine type/size, armor type, and structure type) but with everything being lighter, smaller and deals more damage.

[Gas Guzzler]

I read another post, so it sounds like UAC 20 gets a 5 shot burst of 4 damage each. Does the Ultra side of it mean you get another burst in quick succession with chance of jamming?

All in all I'm excited for this... especially the fact you can toggle LBX to slug mode!

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 April 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I read another post, so it sounds like UAC 20 gets a 5 shot burst of 4 damage each. Does the Ultra side of it mean you get another burst in quick succession with chance of jamming?

Yes. Brapapapapap, followed by another. Think MW3 style ultra autocannons. Suckers were deadly, but they smeared damage a little due to the burst mechanic. I would, ideally, like to see ALL autocannons (except LB-X) follow the burst mechanic, but this place lives in my head and not in expected reality.

If they can effectively code in toggle ammo for the LBX, so that you can load one ton of cluster, two tons of solid, and switch mid game which you use, this opens the door for other toggle types. Thunder/Swarm LRMs and Inferno SRMs come to mind.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 April 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 April 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Yes. Brapapapapap, followed by another. Think MW3 style ultra autocannons. Suckers were deadly, but they smeared damage a little due to the burst mechanic. I would, ideally, like to see ALL autocannons follow the burst mechanic, but this place lives in my head and not in expected reality.

If they can effectively code in toggle ammo for the LBX, so that you can load one ton of cluster, two tons of solid, and switch mid game which you use, this opens the door for other toggle types. Thunder/Swarm LRMs and Inferno SRMs come to mind.

Nice. Very good way to balance the dual UAC 20 builds. Will still be super deadly but not as bad as essentially an AC80 Dire Wolf.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I'm happy to hear about the changes to UACs and LRMs. I like the LB-X idea too but I wonder if they will be considered better than the UACs because they wont spread damage.

[CyclonerM]

The LBXs would never make the UACs useless if they do not "double tap". They would be essentially standard ACs that can fire cluster rounds. But how will they be in MWO?

[Pariah Devalis]

The adder is so cute!

Going to need a memester. "They said I was DOA. Said."

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 April 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[LastKhan]

Not a huge fan of the flamer being a fixed weapon. but good looking overall.

[FireSlade]

lastkhan, on 23 April 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Not a huge fan of the flamer being a fixed weapon. but good looking overall.

I am a little worrie about being blinded using it but if they play around with the flammer and make it more useful it should be a welcome addition when tormenting those poor assaults.

[LastKhan]

FireSlade, on 23 April 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

I am a little worrie about being blinded using it but if they play around with the flammer and make it more useful it should be a welcome addition when tormenting those poor assaults.

Even though its only what .5 tons, that can be something to add on to armor or something.

[FireSlade]

True but if flammers imparted more heat on the enemy and less on you then they would be much more viable. In MW3 they were down right terrifying because of their ability to keep you either too hot to fight back or locked up. Granted MW3 was far from balanced but it should not be too dificult to find a happy medium. Besides I have been praying to the Battletech gods that PGI would stop babying us and impart penalties for running hot, ammo explosions, slower movement speeds, targeting issues, and the mech showing static in the HUD.

[Pariah Devalis]

Iirc, Adder is almost fully plated, stock. Half a ton is not too big a deal and most likely I would just write off that hard point as nonexistent. The Adder with twin LRM20 and two ERMLAS is what really interests me. And I am not a missile fan, typically.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

CyclonerM, on 23 April 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

The LBXs would never make the UACs useless if they do not "double tap". They would be essentially standard ACs that can fire cluster rounds. But how will they be in MWO?

Don't be so sure, the game so far has demonstrated that precision is often more valuable than raw damage. I expect UACs will be fantastic on slower moving enemies but I wouldn't be surprised if people defaulted to the LB-X firing slugs for more reliable damage against enemies of varying speeds. Of course it all really comes down to the detail of how the UAC burst will work.

Edited by Rouken, 23 April 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[CCC Dober]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 April 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

...
If they can effectively code in toggle ammo for the LBX, so that you can load one ton of cluster, two tons of solid, and switch mid game which you use, this opens the door for other toggle types. Thunder/Swarm LRMs and Inferno SRMs come to mind.

It could also open up standard ACs for Armor-Piercing Ammunition, just as the LBX gets to fire standard rounds.

[CyclonerM]

Whops i meant to write "unless they [LBXs] can double-tap".

Personally, may use the LBX-5 on the Kit Fox, but if we get the Gargoyle i will definitely switch them for UAC/5.

[FireSlade]

CCC Dober, on 23 April 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

It could also open up standard ACs for Armor-Piercing Ammunition, just as the LBX gets to fire standard rounds.

We will probably (never know) never see any ammo that ignores a portion of armor or burns through armor faster when just about everyone (even PGI) can agree that mechs are dying too quickly.

[Lucky Moniker]

lastkhan, on 23 April 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Not a huge fan of the flamer being a fixed weapon. but good looking overall.

I, on the other hand, love the single flamer, it has saved my life while brawling with my "adder Jenner" by blinding them. Where it is positioned on the mech, it should offer maximum blindness to the enemy while staying out of the way for you, because of how short the adder is.