89 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

101011, on 23 April 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

These weapons are centuries ahead of IS weapons. What makes you think they would be compatible?

Simple, clan tech was based on I.S/Star League-tech the weapons were just refined to a amazing prospect.

[101011]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Simple, clan tech was based on I.S/Star League-tech the weapons were just refined to a amazing prospect.

I am fairly certain that omni pods are not "just refined".

[Armored Yokai]

101011, on 23 April 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

I am fairly certain that omni pods are not "just refined".

thats a whole new technology but some of clan mechs aren't omnimechs
omnimechs are just highly configurable versions of battlemechs but that doesn't mean that they can't use the same weapons

[101011]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

thats a whole new technology but some of clan mechs aren't omnimechs
omnimechs are just highly configurable versions of battlemechs but that doesn't mean that they can't use the same weapons

Actually, yes, it does. Omnimechs require omni pods which require specialized weaponry.

[Khobai]

Quote

Actually, yes, it does. Omnimechs require omni pods which require specialized weaponry.

there arnt special weapons that only omnimechs can use. Any weapon that an omnimech can use a non-omni clan mech can also use. it just requires a factory rebuild instead of a field maintenance.

[101011]

Khobai, on 23 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

there arnt special weapons that only omnimechs can use. Any weapon that an omnimech can use a non-omni clan mech can also use. it just requires a factory rebuild instead of a field maintenance.

sarna said:

The modular attachment points to mount OmniMech weaponry and equipment (equipment constructed in an OmniMech Pod) renders such equipment incompatible with standard BattleMechs. Even for identical classes and brands of equipment, only the ammunition can be used interchangeably. Adding or removing the Pod connections is possible but adds additional time to repairs. If weaponry and equipment are mounted on an OmniMech without an OmniPod, this equipment is fixed. For mixed units of BattleMechs and OmniMechs this adds an artificial separation and duplication in supply chains and logistics for spare parts.

Edited by 101011, 23 April 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

The [modular attachment points] to mount OmniMech weaponry and equipment (equipment constructed in an OmniMech Pod) renders such equipment incompatible with standard BattleMechs


it means that the modular attachment points to mount on the omnimechs are incompatible, and i know it says omnimech weaponry and equipment but if you see closely not all Clan mechs are omnimechs yet they mount the same weapons but they just don't have the omnipods. there are some standard I.S mechs that have been equipped with clan technology even though clan and I.S tech are mutually incompatible...but that doesn't mean they can't upgrade it slightly to give it that compatibility

Edited by Armored Yokai, 23 April 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Veranova]

I do hope for an April fools announcement next year that mixed tech will be allowed for a one-off fee of 24,000 MC

That would stir up some idiots in the community hahaha

[Haakon Magnusson]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Why not

-you cannot buy clan tech because you have to earn it by being a clanner or simply taking out a clanner
-allow Mixtech
-Make compatability upgrade to be able to allow mixtech i.e 2,500,000 for clan weapons upgrade and triple prices for clan endo steel and ferro armor

Yes, I realise that you want your 15pt er ppc/2 crit xl/half weight lrms... Which pretty much obsoleted all is tech for everyone and min maxed mixtech is what everyone works toward. It won't happen, if this was to campaign with a sensible gm running the show, mixtech can be cool story element to work toward getting and keeping running. But fps deathmatch, nope

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 24 April 2014 - 01:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Well, if they let us have 15 damage Clan ERPPCs, without too much of a heat increase, you could make a 97.2 kph Gausscat of sorts with the Adder.




I can already taste the tears of assault pilots who get killed by one of these sexy beasts.

Only inexperienced Assault Mech pilots would complain. Those of us who know what Clan Weapons are meant to do, will accept it as fact, and try to be more careful next time!

[Joseph Mallan]

101011, on 23 April 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Actually, yes, it does. Omnimechs require omni pods which require specialized weaponry.

The weapons are whats specialized its the interface that is. Omni Weapons have USB Plug n play cables. Standard weapons don't.

[Bishop Steiner]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Why not

-you cannot buy clan tech because you have to earn it by being a clanner or simply taking out a clanner
-allow Mixtech
-Make compatability upgrade to be able to allow mixtech i.e 2,500,000 for clan weapons upgrade and triple prices for clan endo steel and ferro armor

just to comment on one point-

Endo Steel upgrade is not even an option. Even the Clan Omnis built without it cannot "upgrade" to it.

Endo Steel is literally the mechs's skeleton, and is, outside of Omnis, generally unique to each chassis. Thus, salvaging a Summoner, with an EndoSteel chassis, would not give you the material needed to then put a Clan EndoSteel skeleton into your Catapult.

As For Ferro Fibrous armor, that is something one could probably adapt to work, though since armor is also formed specifically to each chassis, the investment involved (and source of replacement armor plates?) would not remotely be worth it, since as jury rigged armor it would almost certainly be no more effective than IS armor. Modern Military Armor is not about just slapping new slabs in place, but is designed with dead zones, specific layering and angles to make it work.

As for the rest, no matter the initial investment loophole, it just becomes an arms race, and it widens the disparity between haves and have nots, as those new players coming in and grinding will be even MORE behind the 8ball when facing veteran players, ALL of whom will be running pure ClanTech weaponry (except maybe medium lasers and IS AC20s) on Inner Sphere chassis, taking the MinMax meta to an even further extreme, and almost certainly hurting new player retention.

OmniMechs mounting ClanTech will be balanced by inherent Chassis quirks. Clantech on IS designs will simply break this game, as it did every other MW game that allowed it, and even TT, when they repealed the MixTech rules after the Refusal War.

So the answer thankfully remains...:NO.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 April 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 April 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

The weapons are whats specialized its the interface that is. Omni Weapons have USB Plug n play cables. Standard weapons don't.

Comes down to semantics, though. The weapons in an Omnipod are designed to be used in an omnipod. Their associated support systems, which would otherwise be in the mech itself, are in the pod. You would need to totally disassemble the hardware and find some way to connect Tab A into Slot B even though Tab A is designed specifically to integrate with Slot A-1c.

Then there is the potential software incompatibilities.

Edit: then there is the question if your mech is even capable of sending enough power from the reactor to the weapon systems, which might necessitate a total breakdown of the mech to resolve.....

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 24 April 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Khobai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

I thought clan tech was being balanced specifically around omnimechs.

So i kindve doubt there will be any IIC mechs, since theyll have none of the disadvantages of omnimechs, but all of the advantages of clan tech.

According to this, who would want one anyways...

Quote

The Hunchback IIC is a Clan-tech refit of the venerable Hunchback. Its meager six tons of armor, coupled with paltry ammunition and lack of long-range weapons, led Inner Sphere observers to conclude that this 'Mech was a last-ditch effort for failed warriors to die with glory. In truth, the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle. However, despite the attrition rates expected for pilots of this BattleMech, the number of Hunchback IICs within all Clans has remained more or less constant, a surprisingly high 3% of the entire touman of each Clan.
After the actions of a star of Smoke Jaguar Warden MechWarriors, however, this 'Mech has become popular with Clan Jade Falcon sibbies during their first Trial of Position as it often allows them one quick kill, though the practice is often derided by older Clanners. Perhaps the only bright spot in this design is the inclusion of jump jets that allow it to more easily traverse difficult terrain so that it can bring its mammoth guns into play.

[Almond Brown]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Sure clan-tech is better and i understand the issue of that, but i think there should be a rare limit of obtaining parts from an enemy clan mech

As we attempt to stay in the timeline, the Clans do not lose a major engagement versus the I.S. for some time yet, thus there is no Battlefield that the I.S. holds that would provide them Clan salvage. Actually the I.S. is losing the I.S. to the Clans currently, HARD! lol

Perhaps in 3-4 years (3056-57) I.S. retro or Omni builds might become a possibility.

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 April 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Armored Yokai, on 23 April 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Simple, clan tech was based on I.S/Star League-tech the weapons were just refined to a amazing prospect.

And if you gave one Golfer a modern set of clubs and golf balls and another wooden shafted ones and Feathery golf balls, would it be fair. They are both still playing Golf right?

P.S. I would hazard a guess that the 2 power distribution systems might not be compatible.

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 April 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 24 April 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

And if you gave one Golfer a modern set of clubs and golf balls and another wooden shafted ones and Feathery golf balls, would it be fair. They are both still playing Gold right?

P.S. I would hazard a guess that the 2 power distribution systems might not be compatible.

Give Tiger Woods the old school and me the New Hotness and I bet Tiger still kicks my but!

[Bishop Steiner]

We are talking 250 years of refinement.

Go see how compatible modern weapon systems are on a WWII tank. How well will they handle a TOW missile? Is modern armor even applicable to an archaic tank? (answer, NO, not without totally re-engineering everything to a point you essentially just rebuilt the tank from the ground up) Even a modern autoloading cannon would not be able to just be slapped in there.

And to boot, who in the Inner Sphere has the knowledge to fabricate, re-engineer or repair Clan Tech to keep it functional? Military Machines are hideously maintenance intensive, or they have a bad habit of breaking.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pariah Devalis, on 24 April 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Comes down to semantics, though. The weapons in an Omnipod are designed to be used in an omnipod. Their associated support systems, which would otherwise be in the mech itself, are in the pod. You would need to totally disassemble the hardware and find some way to connect Tab A into Slot B even though Tab A is designed specifically to integrate with Slot A-1c.

Then there is the potential software incompatibilities.

Edit: then there is the question if your mech is even capable of sending enough power from the reactor to the weapon systems, which might necessitate a total breakdown of the mech to resolve.....

Which is why only the best Techs with awesome resources could get it done... Until Avanti's Angels put a Clan Gauss and 3 C MP Lasers on a Caesar in a Dropship Mechbay!

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Give Tiger Woods the old school and me the New Hotness and I bet Tiger still kicks my but!

That would be the Pilot argument, not the Tech. But, if you and Tiger had the same handicap (average score), maybe not. I suspect Tigers average score is just a TAD lower than yours.

Am I right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 April 2014 - 06:53 AM.