20 replies to this topic

[Wesxander]

We had team killer last night killing at start up whoever was on his side.

Then tonight I got killed by shot coming through a hill. Yes through the hill a shot killed me. It was a direct fire weapon so that should not happened.

Few months ago we saw players using an armor and internal hack to repair damage.

I think the no naming and shaming policy encourages these people to cheat.

Seems like the people that don't cheat got record every single game upload it to the net only to watch these guys come back after only a week or two.

I would pay good MC for a policed server that checks constantly for cheats using programs provided by hacks. Use the extra income to hire GM's that watch for possible cheats and send them to a neutral battlefield to talk to them 1on 1 directly after catching them.
While on this subject the lag supper gunners are getting old. While not a cheat it is being exploited. A light will hit and run and be back in cover in just a second only to discover a player with over 250 ping has destroyed their leg while in cover. See the lag player's computer is given the benefit of the doubt over the lower ping players in cover position. 3 to 5 seconds after you are in cover suddenly you have lost a leg. It gets old fast.
Solution might be putting up European and Asian servers, and grouping players by their ping times to ensure fair play.

Edited by Wesxander, 24 April 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[Wintersdark]

I often wonder what percentage of your posts are crying about players cheating.

Armor/internal repair isn't possible with a client side back, because that's server authorative. Your client doesn't track your damage state, it just tells you what the server feels your damage state is.

The "lag shoot" thing? Its not at all unfair. You where exposed for the same amount of time for that player. The moment you get hit *doesn't matter*, because that player made a snap shot with the same difficulty that a 50ms ping player would have made. From his perspective, its exactly the same. The only difference is from your perspective, your mech registers the damage late. There is no "benefit of the doubt" to be had.

For someone who complains about rampant cheating, you're always strangely bereft of any proof.

As to "name and shaming" rules encouraging people, don't be daft. If someone has the tools, ability and desire to cheat, they're not going to care about what you say on the forums.


I'm comfortably around 4000+ drops now, and have never seen anything even suspicious. I've been called a cheater before (multi headshot match back when the Heavy Metal was released, gauss+2erppc, had an absurdly lucky match) but I've never seen anything even close.

I have seen others cry about aimbots... But suspiciously it seems to be people who just got beat and can't understand how some people can actually aim. I've never had trouble squishing those supposed aimbotters.



TLDR: proof, or you're just crying because someone was better than you.

[Smitti]

I had someone accuse me of cheating, claiming I'd repaired somehow because my CT armour was yellow "and now it isn't"

Nub failed to notice, it wasn't yellow any more because I had no CT armour left, just undamaged IS.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I have just had the same thing happen as the OP in matches tonight. No one had LoS on me and I'm positive of that. I was being shot through the hills in Alpine. I wasn't using Shadow Play to record but I am now. It could be the new damage matrix is screwed up, but it was pretty obvious.

[Wintersdark]

Kali Rinpoche, on 24 April 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

I have just had the same thing happen as the OP in matches tonight. No one had LoS on me and I'm positive of that. I was being shot through the hills in Alpine. I wasn't using Shadow Play to record but I am now. It could be the new damage matrix is screwed up, but it was pretty obvious.

HOW where you positive of that?

You've got a limited field of view, and - as an example - a Shadowhawk can poptart only peeking his head and shoulder over a hill. A clever one, moving after firing, will be able to keep smacking you while remaining out of sight.

It's not hard.

Or just a speedy light, peeking out, snapping you with a laser/ppc, ducking back behind a rock. It's trivial to do that in less time than it takes to turn and look for who shot you.

[Kali Rinpoche]

B/C there were only 5 mechs left and they were moving as a unit. All assaults.

Other was on Caustic and was at start of Match oil refinery cap in assault.

Oh and in both cases it was ballistic weapons. Gauss for one and AC20 by sound of other.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 24 April 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[Modo44]

HSR does make some shots look like they went through terrain. The server can read the firing mech's position as higher than what was displayed by the client(s). This is actually pretty common, and working as designed.

That being said, if you have evidence of clearly impossible things happening, send it to support. Ranting on the forums will not help much.

[Greyboots]

Wesxander, on 24 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

While on this subject the lag supper gunners are getting old. While not a cheat it is being exploited. A light will hit and run and be back in cover in just a second only to discover a player with over 250 ping has destroyed their leg while in cover. See the lag player's computer is given the benefit of the doubt over the lower ping players in cover position. 3 to 5 seconds after you are in cover suddenly you have lost a leg. It gets old fast.
Solution might be putting up European and Asian servers, and grouping players by their ping times to ensure fair play.

Well no, you weren't in cover when you were shot. You would have lost the leg no matter what. I fail to see how this is an "exploit". Sounds more like you want your low ping to work in your favour to be honest. Well...

This is nothing special except that in this case PGI has ensured that it cuts both ways unlike most companies. Welcome to the world of Australasian players forced to play on US servers. You can get used to it if you're good enough.

But still, the new measures aren't working unfortunately. I don't know about getting shot through hills (this happens because of Lag and hits getting applied late BUT I haven't noticed actually being shot through a hill) but while some things got better (SRMs, AC20's and a few others) my lasers are now atrocious and worse than SRMs and AC20's ever were for me.

At least 4 times today I've unloaded on a cherry red torso of an overheated mech only to do absolutely nothing. This is between 4 and 6 medium lasers that should have been kill shots. Now I've had this happen on mobile mechs where the game thinks I've hit a side torso or arm instead of the CT but NEVER on a shut down mech. Hits on immobile mechs have ALWAYS been reliable for me.

Groupfire seems to help over using chainfire and repeated button pushes for rapid firing but it's not a "cure" by any means.

While my AC and SRM mechs are doing wonderful currently, my Laser mechs are seriously underperforming since the changes.

** Edited for Typos **

Edited by Greyboots, 24 April 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I'm not writing a manifesto be clear. I'm just saying something is screwy. Maybe its the new server side changes. detecting a false positive from a round hitting front of hill. I'm recording tonight so if it happens again I will be able to see it better.

[Roadbeer]

LOL, I was on a team tonight and we were accused of hacking because we were able to LRM the DDC.

Whole big uproar, many unkind words...

Of course, none of them looked up to see the UAV over their heads.

[L Y N X]

Best to assume as in real life that Big Brother is always watching. Keep your nose clean and you stay out of the slammer.

[MalodorousMonkey]

The subject of this thread should be more along the lines of, "Everything I'm pissed off about right now."

But yeah, I agree with Wintersdark. It's easy to say that people are cheating when things happened that you don't think should have happened. If it's this much of an issue for you, you really should take some screens or record your matches and show us the proof. People will be a lot more receptive if you show a video of someone judo-kicking you in the face or whatever, rather than if you just come on the forums and say "someone shot me through a wall and that isn't supposed to happen!"

Edited by MalodorousMonkey, 24 April 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[Ironwithin]

*groans* this again ... guess it's that time of the month again when moon, mars and jupiter align and all the nonsense comes out to reproduce and multiply.
These threads serve no purpose except agitating the community and have nothing to do with feedback at all, why not put them in the game balance forum ? Or the new player help ? Maybe they'd feel at home in a mech-loadout-topic, just randomly sprinkled in any existing one...

If you suspect someone of cheating, contact support, best with some video of it but that's not mandatory as the devs can spectate any game/player they want at any time.
As others have pointed out before, one of the golden rules of the internet applies: PICS OR DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!11#

moving on...

[Duncan Aravain]

We had a case where after we all died, we were spectating in our sides last survivor's mech. We all noticed that he could see all the enemy's mechs no matter if he had LOS or not and no matter the distance involved. After 30 seconds of that, our TS lit up as we all started commenting. Sent a question to MWO customer support with screenshots, time, descriptions, etc. After a week, we no longer ran into that player in a match and haven't for over a month and a half.

Bottom line, if you have a question, document it as best you can,submit a ticket and let PGI do their job.

[990Dreams]

Email support@mwomercs.com and report them there.

Screenshots and witnesses are also optimal. 9 AM to 5PM Eastern time is when they're open.

Don't post their name on the forums. Etc. etc.

Roadbeer, on 24 April 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

LOL, I was on a team tonight and we were accused of hacking because we were able to LRM the DDC.

Whole big uproar, many unkind words...

Of course, none of them looked up to see the UAV over their heads.

I though UAVs got jammed by ECM. Thanks for the tip.

Besides this, hackers will always hack and they'll make new clients to dodge the hack police. It is like viruses. So you have to constantly be policing hacks, watching every match for unusual behavior. Seems like a lot of work. Instead, here is a good idea:

If the players care about hackers, they'll fight against it with evidence and reports. So? Are you gonna actually figure it out? Do you care enough? Cause the devs can only care as much as you, since they can't police every match every minute of every day.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 25 April 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Veranova]

You show me the link to the tools which allow cheating, and I will admit to you the possibility, that you weren't simply outclasses by much better players.

Everything that matters is server side. Cheating is simply not possible, unless that person is hacked in and controlling the server, which again is not really a likelihood.


And the light losing its leg? Yes the enemy sees you 250ms later than you are there, however they still see you for the exact same amount of time that you were actually visible. So they still have the same chance to hit you as with 0 lag. Therefore you need to learn to make safer manoeuvres where good players won't be able to take your leg off. They were just a great shot and you put yourself in a weak manoeuvre.

Edited by Veranova, 25 April 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Tesunie]

Wesxander, on 24 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

We had team killer last night killing at start up whoever was on his side.

Then tonight I got killed by shot coming through a hill. Yes through the hill a shot killed me. It was a direct fire weapon so that should not happened.

Few months ago we saw players using an armor and internal hack to repair damage.

I think the no naming and shaming policy encourages these people to cheat.

Seems like the people that don't cheat got record every single game upload it to the net only to watch these guys come back after only a week or two.

I would pay good MC for a policed server that checks constantly for cheats using programs provided by hacks. Use the extra income to hire GM's that watch for possible cheats and send them to a neutral battlefield to talk to them 1on 1 directly after catching them.
While on this subject the lag supper gunners are getting old. While not a cheat it is being exploited. A light will hit and run and be back in cover in just a second only to discover a player with over 250 ping has destroyed their leg while in cover. See the lag player's computer is given the benefit of the doubt over the lower ping players in cover position. 3 to 5 seconds after you are in cover suddenly you have lost a leg. It gets old fast.
Solution might be putting up European and Asian servers, and grouping players by their ping times to ensure fair play.

Report the team killer to support.

The shot through the hill was probably HSR back tracking to a time before you got into cover, when someone else could see and shoot you, and they did. This can happen for a longer time than you might think. I've had mystery damage hit me before. I've also been known to loose perfectly good side torsos with nothing apparently hitting me as well.

There are some cheats, but I have rarely seen them. If you see it, take screens (or video would be better) of the incident. Then, like with team kills, report to support.

No Name and Shame prevents people from spreading rumors around that could be false. PGI investigates reports and watches the players/go into their previous game numbers and see if anything doesn't look correct. It also prevents people from rubbing in the fact that they got someone banned, and also keeps the banned people from trying to take revenge on you later, as you can't say their name. It as much protects you as it does others.

It was either HSR, which can cause some strange damage events, or go back to having to lead targets with your lasers, ballistic fired weapons being nearly useless and impossible to hit with, and guided missiles being the only way to truly cause damage again. Do you recall the Lag Shielded lights and the uproar that was causing? Or was that before you join?

(Also, didn't you create other "cheater" threads before on the forums? I believe I responded to some of them.... I could be wrong...)

[Tesunie]

Wintersdark, on 24 April 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

I'm comfortably around 4000+ drops now, and have never seen anything even suspicious. I've been called a cheater before (multi headshot match back when the Heavy Metal was released, gauss+2erppc, had an absurdly lucky match) but I've never seen anything even close.

I have seen others cry about aimbots... But suspiciously it seems to be people who just got beat and can't understand how some people can actually aim. I've never had trouble squishing those supposed aimbotters.

Edit: Got overzealous with the reply button.

I had only one incident in all my matches where I was highly suspicious someone had an aim bot on their game. I was in a Cicada, my brother a Raven. Maxed out speed for each mech (150KPH I believe). Somehow, we came across a mech who could keep a full beam duration of a LL (several actually) on our CT mo matter how we dodged or moved. The one mech killed each of us and only caused damage to our CT by himself. No splash damage to any other component. I can understand luck (like with your head shot match, it happens) but this really had me concerned as it just didn't seem right... If it smells fishy... (This was also back before I knew how to contact support.)

So, it is possible, but I find it rare. (I also saw a youtube video with a wall hack being used in a live game, and think I might have seen that happen in a couple of matches I was in, but it's so rare... and so hard to prove as well. So, I did not report it as I could prove it. It just seemed... odd in those few matches. Took it as a fluke and moved on.)

Kali Rinpoche, on 24 April 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

I have just had the same thing happen as the OP in matches tonight. No one had LoS on me and I'm positive of that. I was being shot through the hills in Alpine. I wasn't using Shadow Play to record but I am now. It could be the new damage matrix is screwed up, but it was pretty obvious.

Either someone, as stated above, was hiding and shooting and hiding again, you had someone outside your line of sight, or HSR something or other. However, try to repeat the incident if you can. Go to the same spot while recording, and if you can get it to repeat, send the video into support. I doubt that it's happened as you think, but there is the possibility that something could be set up incorrectly in that area. (I've found a spot or two here or there that I could not shoot what I was seeing, but I could get shot back. Highly annoying. I just moved to another piece of cover after that... AKA: Invisible terrain blocked my shots, but enough of my mech was over or through the terrain for others to shoot me back.)

Edited by Tesunie, 25 April 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Kali Rinpoche, on 24 April 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

I have just had the same thing happen as the OP in matches tonight. No one had LoS on me and I'm positive of that. I was being shot through the hills in Alpine. I wasn't using Shadow Play to record but I am now. It could be the new damage matrix is screwed up, but it was pretty obvious.

Something that is more likely and a tactic I tend to use myself when I can pull it off, is to fire a heavy AC (AC10 or 20) and actually use the projectile drop off to have it drop "behind" the hill. I can pull it off maybe once in 20 tries and only when I am not moving, and the stars align, etc. Combine that with my shadowhawks high shoulder mounted AC and yup, it looks like magic. Feels like it too when you an pull it off. =)

[Egomane]

soooo

How many times have I told you how to report players you suspect of cheating?

Lets see:
One
Two
ok... I wont bother for a third!

Thread closed!

Edited by Egomane, 25 April 2014 - 08:22 AM.