1821 replies to this topic

[Crotch RockIt]

I can't remember, so what's the official stance on the Raven 3L? It's the correct era (3025) but uses Tech 2, minus the DHS. I ask because the challenge reward this weekend is a Champion Raven 3L. I already have one, so if it's allowed in SMM, I'll convert one of them back to stock.

[Rhaythe]

Tech 2, not typically valid for SMM. It was mostly used during the Wednesday events. In addition to ECM, stock also uses NARCs and tag lasers.

Edited by Rhaythe, 19 February 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Crotch RockIt]

That's what I thought. Just wanted to double check.

[Lily from animove]

Ok, I have bought/gatherd some more IS mechs now.

FS9-A

CFT 4X
CFT 2X
CFT 3D(C)

CDA-3C
CDA-2B

HBK 4P
HBK 4J
HBK 4SP

CN9-AH (L)

AS7-S (L)
KGC 000(L)

which of those is stock valid to the rules?

[Rhaythe]

Been trying to find the Raven 2X and 4X record sheets online. I found the Alpha Strike card, but no full-fledged battletech record sheet. Mordel doesn't have'em. Anyone have a copy of these somewhere? Should be TRO 3039.

[Rhaythe]

Cataphract 3D is invalid (XL Engine, CASE).

Atlas is *technically* invalid since it has Stream SRM2's and Ferro... though I'd be willing to look the other way if you really wanted to play it. Same with the Crab and CASE/Ferro. Both of those don't meet the letter of the law for Tech-1, but they're so dang close, I'd be willing to allow players to use them.

Everything else is golden.

[Rhaythe]

Worth noting: you can build a stock KGC-0000 out of the 000. It's completely tech-one. Since a lot of players have those leftover appreciation crabs in their hangers, we might want to considering making this build SMM legal:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...92b90d4a00162b2

[Lily from animove]

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Cataphract 3D is invalid (XL Engine, CASE).

Atlas is *technically* invalid since it has Stream SRM2's and Ferro... though I'd be willing to look the other way if you really wanted to play it. Same with the Crab and CASE/Ferro. Both of those don't meet the letter of the law for Tech-1, but they're so dang close, I'd be willing to allow players to use them.

Everything else is golden.

ok sounds cool, but the as / has no FF, it has DHS however,

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=241&l=stock

so restriction could be to throw of the ssrms. or just not use it. and DHS can be downgraded.

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Worth noting: you can build a stock KGC-0000 out of the 000. It's completely tech-one. Since a lot of players have those leftover appreciation crabs in their hangers, we might want to considering making this build SMM legal:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...92b90d4a00162b2

would confuse people, wouldn't it?

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 February 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Lily from animove, on 19 February 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

ok sounds cool, but the as / has  no FF, it has DHS however,

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=241&l=stock

so restriction could be to throw of the ssrms. or just not use it. and DHS can be downgraded.



so a loyality crab is not stock by default?

My mistake. The problem with just dropping the SSRMs and DHS is that it's no longer "stock", and we'd have to get into a discussion about what to make of whatever is the result. Might be smarter to turn the Atlas S into a D for Stock Mech Monday: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7470ac4769ed27

There's a difference between "stock" and "tech one". The loyalty King Crab is *stock*, but not "tech one"-valid.

As for confusing people, this kind of practice was done in Stock Mech Wednesday events, so there is precident. But it's also using existing in-game mechs to recreate existing in-game mechs, so I'm not sure it's violating any rules. The downside is that quirks may not be 100% accurate, so it may behave slightly different.

In any case, we might be able to make these exceptions, as a LOT of people might have Atlas S and Crab 000's that they aren't using that would be perfect for this event otherwise.

[Lily from animove]

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

My mistake. The problem with just dropping the SSRMs and DHS is that it's no longer "stock", and we'd have to get into a discussion about what to make of whatever is the result. Might be smarter to turn the Atlas S into a D for Stock Mech Monday: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7470ac4769ed27

There's a difference between "stock" and "tech one". The loyalty King Crab is *stock*, but not "tech one"-valid.

As for confusing people, this kind of practice was done in Stock Mech Wednesday events, so there is precident. But it's also using existing in-game mechs to recreate existing in-game mechs, so I'm not sure it's violating any rules. The downside is that quirks may not be 100% accurate, so it may behave slightly different.

In any case, we might be able to make these exceptions, as a LOT of people might have Atlas S and Crab 000's that they aren't using that would be perfect for this event otherwise.

Hmm Ok, could rebuild the crab and atlas then, I don't use my IS mechs actually at all, too much C-bill investment for proper engines for mechs I nearly never use, except my CFT 1X and AS D-DC which I started MWO with and that are fully optimised. But the stock mech mondays sounds fun and the mechs would then at least have some form of use at all.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 February 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Well, I'm not an authority here. This just makes sense to me. Before you go burning through c-bills, i'd like to see what the rest of our community thinks about this.

Also, welcome aboard! It's a blast. Hope to see you next monday for this event. Looking forward to dropping with you and/or shooting you!

If you're interested in seeing a couple videos of past events, scroll back through this thread. A lot of people have uploaded media for it. I've started a youtube channel for it as well.

Edited by Rhaythe, 19 February 2015 - 07:26 AM.

[Crotch RockIt]

Stock King Crab seems like a waste of tonnage. Two AC/20's with only 7 shots each. Better not miss!

[Lily from animove]

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

Well, I'm not an authority here. This just makes sense to me. Before you go burning through c-bills, i'd like to see what the rest of our community thinks about this.

Also, welcome aboard! It's a blast. Hope to see you next monday for this event. Looking forward to dropping with you and/or shooting you!

If you're interested in seeing a couple videos of past events, scroll back through this thread. A lot of people have uploaded media for it. I've started a youtube channel for it as well.

wouldn't burn much money at all, just the downgrade to the SHS, which is rather cheap.

Crotch RockIt, on 19 February 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Stock King Crab seems like a waste of tonnage. Two AC/20's with only 7 shots each. Better not miss!

nah still 280 damage possible xD and it got a LL while the atlas only has mediums.

[Rhaythe]

Crotch RockIt, on 19 February 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Stock King Crab seems like a waste of tonnage.  Two AC/20's with only 7 shots each.  Better not miss!

Limited ammo is definitely a SMM flavor.

[Rhaythe]

Alternatively, the Atlas S can also be retrofitted into an RS. Actually wouldn't mind trying this build with the dual large lasers (don't own an RS):
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c0a81e461fc9468

I'd really like to hear from some other SMM Veterans if you believe this should be allowed for Monday's games.

[Tesunie]

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Been trying to find the Raven 2X and 4X record sheets online. I found the Alpha Strike card, but no full-fledged battletech record sheet. Mordel doesn't have'em. Anyone have a copy of these somewhere? Should be TRO 3039.

I can dig them up if you really need them. Anything specific you are looking from the sheets?

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

My mistake. The problem with just dropping the SSRMs and DHS is that it's no longer "stock", and we'd have to get into a discussion about what to make of whatever is the result. Might be smarter to turn the Atlas S into a D for Stock Mech Monday: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7470ac4769ed27

There's a difference between "stock" and "tech one". The loyalty King Crab is *stock*, but not "tech one"-valid.

As for confusing people, this kind of practice was done in Stock Mech Wednesday events, so there is precident. But it's also using existing in-game mechs to recreate existing in-game mechs, so I'm not sure it's violating any rules. The downside is that quirks may not be 100% accurate, so it may behave slightly different.

In any case, we might be able to make these exceptions, as a LOT of people might have Atlas S and Crab 000's that they aren't using that would be perfect for this event otherwise.

As long as it's well advertised, and all the crits/armor/etc are in the correct amounts and locations, I have no problems with stand ins with what someone already have. I'd rather get another person into the matches than tell them no because they don't own the "exact" mech variant...

As long as it's an in game existing mech that can be replicated within another mech of the same chassis type (such as the St. Ives Blue for example), I see no problem with their use. Just... make sure you are VERY clear on what you are using.

(I don't know if I count as any form of authority here... but that's my vote/opinion.)

[Sergey Kosinskiy]

Rhaythe, on 19 February 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Alternatively, the Atlas S can also be retrofitted into an RS. Actually wouldn't mind trying this build with the dual large lasers (don't own an RS):
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c0a81e461fc9468

I'd really like to hear from some other SMM Veterans if you believe this should be allowed for Monday's games.

Well.... i dont mind, we really need more players. But personally i am not a big fan of this. But if other ok with this, yeah, why not.


BUT
This is monday, so TECH 1, please. I dont wanna see streaks or UAC here.
Basically if its Atlas-D that build on Atlas-S, ok. If its King Crab 0000 build on King Crab 000(L) ok, but please no Cataphract 3D

Edited by Sergey Kosinskiy, 20 February 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Tesunie, on 19 February 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

I can dig them up if you really need them. Anything specific you are looking from the sheets?

I wanted to use the 4X in an upcoming game, and I just can't find the record sheet anywhere. I tried to make it in REMLAB... but that looks like ass. o_O

[Rhaythe]

I'm hardly an authority here - just an old-timer like Sergey. But unless someone really has an issue with retrofitting variants, I'd like to go ahead and say it's legal for next Monday. Obviously we can discuss it over teamspeak as well beforehand, but this would open up potentially a large audience of people that have extra mechs with nothing to do with them.

This will probably need to get copied to the first page. Anyone got Tyger's beeper number?

Atlas S Tech 1 Retrofits:
AS7-RS
AS7-D

King Crab 000 Tech 1 Retrofits:
KGC-0000

[SilentScreamer]

I am only an occasional attendee, but I will throw my two cents in.

Keep it simple. Every night I have played at least one match has had illegal mechs. It is usually an accident, either the wrong varient picked or the player is inexperienced and did not know what they were doing.

Adding "counts as" rather than "stock only" adds a whole new level of complexity, and I do not think it is a good idea. A CN9-A(C) can be modified to a stock CN9-A easily enough, and the in-game HUD will show the correct varient ID. This does not hold true to the Atals and King Crab models you are describing.

If a player wants to do something that doesn't fit into the "stock" rules, let that player ask for permission in-lobby like we have done in the past. More players are good, but please get agreement from the players in the match if you are doing something a little different.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 20 February 2015 - 07:29 AM.