232 replies to this topic

[Osric Lancaster]

Craig Steele, on 25 April 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

Do unto others right????

More like an eye for an eye.

You're not talking about an action that effects one customer. You're talking about doing something that either helps or hurts your relationship with a LOT of other customers because of the actions of one.
'Eye for an eye', not 'his and his neighbor's eyes'.

Simple example - Some customer hassles a hotdog vendor because he thinks the dog is cold. The guy's a jerk about it, but he point's out that one of the heating elements on the hotdog rack is burnt out. Does the hotdog vendor :

a - Fix the heating element so he's not giving out cold hotdogs in perpetuity to other customers.
b - Leave it broke because that guy was a jerk.

I'm not saying he can't also pick -
c - Give 'that guy' the 'ring of fire' special next time he shows up, but you gotta know when doing something to get back at one guy just just ends up hurting yourself and others. Also; wise man say -

"Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 25 April 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[EvilCow]

Spheroid, on 25 April 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

No company will ever accept fan produced content because if the ownership or use of said content is ever contested the company will have to pay lawyers to defend them even if the case has no merit.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Just make contributors sign a copyright attribution form stating that all the submitted material will become PGI's IP.

It is a common practice for open source projects that also have commercial versions.

Edited by EvilCow, 25 April 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[Osric Lancaster]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Pizza

See? Niko knows what's up. Thanks, Nick.

[Appogee]

MischiefSC, on 25 April 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

In my business, if a customer started a conversation with that sort of tone, regardless of the validity of their comment or request, I'd utterly ignore it. More to the point I would rather fail as a business and die poor then ever, even once, for one moment, reward that sort of demanding entitlement behavior.

LOL. Then you have a promising career at PGI awaiting you.

[Appogee]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

The Map team has been focused predominantly on getting as wide a range as possible of different kinds of environments put together. Once we've got those basic environmental types pinned down, it will be that much easier for the team to create more maps on the fly by reusing some of the terrains and doodads they'd previously created for that environment type.

Thanks for clarifying the situation Nik

Surely the map team could be putting together a map or two in parallel with the overall environments?

I am concerned there may be no playerbase left by the time PGI finally finally gets all the map elements done.

[Dymlos2003]

Appogee, on 25 April 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Thanks for clarifying the situation Nik

Surely the map team could be putting together a map or two in parallel with the overall environments?

I am concerned there may be no playerbase left by the time PGI finally finally gets all the map elements done.

They are already! The swamp one and one other unannounced.

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 25 April 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's not even close to how "easy" some people think it is.

These come to mind. And they look considerably better than what we have now.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

There was...literally another thread with this same name that Bryan Ekman posted in. It had a good post from him. I followed it up with an NGNG Mechs Devs and Beer podcast where Paul explained that all hands are on launch module and community warfare and maps would come after.

....Are the threads just being deleted? Or is the OP just doing new ones every few hours?
Any chance you could just merge 'em all?

[Appogee]

Thanks again for your response and engagement on the issue.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

if player numbers are your concern, there's no better solution than getting involved with New Players and teaching them how to play, and getting them involved in your unit. Some of those New Players may still go, but more will stay thanks to active and friendly mentorship from veteran players.

Fair comment. While I am active in the New Player forum occasionally, I could probably do more, I agree.

[MischiefSC]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

While there is certainly something to be said about new features like maps: Considering that some of the top first-person shooter franchises of all time have even re-used maps over multiple iterations of their games, and that I have just seen another thread where a player begs for more focus on Mechs rather than other content; the correlation-causation link there isn't always true for all players.

With that in mind. I can appreciate as well the concerns regarding playerbase: Statistically speaking, the greatest improvement to our retention was seen when our first Tutorial was created.

Like with any other game, there's going to be a large number of players who just don't stick around for the longer duration. The nature of the F2P model allows us and other games to make up for that by putting the lowest possible barrier for entry for new players to get in.

We will be continuing to balance getting more of the New Player Experience in alongside the content everyone else wants. But if player numbers are your concern, there's no better solution than getting involved with New Players and teaching them how to play, and getting them involved in your unit. Some of those New Players may still go, but more will stay thanks to active and friendly mentorship from veteran players.

Thank you for a well reasoned response.

I think the new drop module changes coming on 4/29 will help the new player experience a lot. Have you considered providing tools for veteran players who 'get certified' (pass whatever criteria you feel is appropriate) to drop in matches with new players with a some sort of player-helper tag or identification? Forums reach such a small sliver of the potential population. Having people consistently in matches with new players who are ready, willing and able to help them would go a lot further.

While splitting the 1,000 to 1500 Elo players out is great it's going to limit the ability of most veteran players to be in a position to help new players. Due to the nature of drops themselves you've got even more limitations. While you could potentially identify new players by being in trial mechs, it is again not a given.

Useful tools -

A: An identifier both in forum and in matches next to your name (like a faction flag) that indicates you're there to help new players and are 'open for business'.

B: The ability to identify players still within their cadet drops in a match.

C: Being singled out by the matchmaker to drop you in matches with new players.

You can then add them as friends for those with an interest in dealing with a mentor or at least direct them to the forum locations that will best serve them if they don't want to chat with you in match or afterward on a friends list.

Helping new players is one place where outsourcing to player volunteers tends to work well. There just currently are not many tools to help people to do so.

[CrashieJ]

IraqiWalker, on 25 April 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Make a map then, go right ahead and show us how it's BULLSHIT.

Welcome to PGIsland, you can stay here is you want.


This is actually a started map of mine using the bumpmap tools in both Cryengine sandbox creator. It's still in progress due to me still going to class in such but If you can get me the .cry versions for the buildings we use in MWO, you won't be dissapointed.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Hey all,

Thanks for raising this concern, While map generation once all or most art assets are available can be a much quicker process, allowing other processes like testing to take place sooner as well: This is only the case once those art assets are indeed completed.

The Map team has been focused predominantly on getting as wide a range as possible of different kinds of environments put together. Once we've got those basic environmental types pinned down, it will be that much easier for the team to create more maps on the fly by reusing some of the terrains and doodads they'd previously created for that environment type. We've also attempted to balance the long-term need to have this range against player expectations for more frequent maps with the release of variations of existing maps, such as Forest Colony Snow or Frozen City Nights.

Please also keep in mind that the map design crew performs a different job than those who design the Mechs. Both have independent tasks with seperate focus on level and environmental design and character design / 3d-rigging. We do appreciate that some players would like to see more maps sooner and others would like to see more Mechs sooner, but it isn't a trade-off of one for the other.

Hey Nik, is there anyway to convert the MWO building files to a Cryengine Friendly format?, I really want to test some of the building scale against the map to sorta get bearings

[MrZakalwe]

MischiefSC, on 25 April 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Exactly.

There is a difference between frustration and the bare minimum of human decency. It's not about someone earning your respect; it's about saying things in a way that is worth listening to.

You want people to listen to what you say and actually care what you say, you need to say it in a manner that's worth listening to and worth caring about. While I'd love new maps I find myself suddenly against the idea after reading something like that. I hope PGI releases gold paint and a c-bill logo camo - maybe even an island motif, all for $50, just on GP at this point.

There we go. A cockpit decoration of a hammock strung between two palm trees, 'to sleep in while you're hanging out on the island'. I kid you not I would buy that tomorrow, on general principle, after this thread.

Problem is people have been trying civil for quite a long time and basic things are still not being fixed/produced. After how many years is it acceptable for frustration to become anger?

Quite a few people around here have been made to feel like just a revenue source.

[Accused]

Just wanted to say "thanks Nik". It helps when the Devs communicate something...meaningful.

Still, my concern are that Mechs are not being seen as "content" anymore (or as much at least). Map, game modes, etc I think are what people are clamoring for.

[Androas]

EvilCow, on 25 April 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Just make contributors sign a copyright attribution form stating that all the submitted material will become PGI's IP.

It is a common practice for open source projects that also have commercial versions.

So, i steal a map, from another game, send it to PGI, sign the rights, which i never held, off to them,
and they get nicely ft in the a for stealing int. property?


Steam had this problem with DotA 2, where people can send in gear for heroes,
there was quite a bit of stuff, which simply was stolen and caused trouble,

so you would have to tripple check each send in piece of work, to be 100% sure, it is not copied from somwhere else.

That allone is more work, then simply creating stuff yourself, and refusing community created work.

[IraqiWalker]

Roland, on 25 April 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

You have never made a cry engine map, have you?

Nope, I just started to work with Cry-engine to make maps, but I do know at least /something/ about what I'm talking about.
I would know more, had my windows not crashed so cataclysmically that I can't even run safe mode, I'm using Ubuntu right now. It's killing me!

Magnamuz, on 25 April 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

+1

For months now we have the same problems that don't get addressed because releasing new clan and hero mechs seems to be a lot more important than actual entertainment and content, like:

* New maps.
* Varying spawn points each round within the same map.
* A LOT of bug fixing...
* A UI that can actually be understood...
* An intuitive menu in which the Esc key can be used for something, cof cof...
* Shorter times to start playing a map.
* Smoke effects that doesn't incinerate your graphic card.

With CryEngine making a map is as easy as making a mech, so those saying that it's not an easy task don't know SHIT about the engine, they just like to lick ass and defend the game from progression and improvements that benefits all of us, so stop whining and show some support to make this game the best game possible.

You know, I bet you would be spouting the same lines if they released the content and not the mechs, and I repeat my request, make a map, and show us how easy it is. Put up or shut up. It's really as simple as it gets.

Also, map load times rely more on your processor than anything else, if maps take too long to load, lower your graphics settings. Same thing for the smoke, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's about as simple as it gets.

I've started messing with Cry engine recently, and so far it's not easy. You keep running your mouth, either put your money where your mouth is, or learn basic human decency when talking, or shut up. I'm showing support to the game, and no to some over-entitled jerk who doesn't know what he's talking about.

gavilatius, on 26 April 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

Spoiler

This is actually a started map of mine using the bumpmap tools

Thank you, finally something to start working with, instead of the internet tough guy act without any backing.

That's not bad, How many kilometers are the dimensions for it?

I also assume you plan on adding some actual terrain obstructions?

As far as building go, the current ones we have are out of scale a bit (as in an Atlas is three stories tall compared to some of them), Why not build a skeletal mesh from the ground up and then worry about skin?

If you import some of the assets, most importantly mechs, which are to scale with what their heights should be in most cases, you can then use them as a scale for how tall/big everything else should be. Seems convoluted, but I've already seen a lot of people pull up the assets and do wonders with them.

I'll find the thread for how to get those assets.

[Appogee]

One other thing: I'm really surprised anyone is still clamoring for more Mechs, instead of more maps.

We have a HUGE number of Mechs available, and the Clan Pack is about to add many more.

Maps, on the other hand...

[Turist0AT]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 25 April 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Hey all,

Thanks for raising this concern, While map generation once all or most art assets are available can be a much quicker process, allowing other processes like testing to take place sooner as well: This is only the case once those art assets are indeed completed.

The Map team has been focused predominantly on getting as wide a range as possible of different kinds of environments put together. Once we've got those basic environmental types pinned down, it will be that much easier for the team to create more maps on the fly by reusing some of the terrains and doodads they'd previously created for that environment type. We've also attempted to balance the long-term need to have this range against player expectations for more frequent maps with the release of variations of existing maps, such as Forest Colony Snow or Frozen City Nights.

Please also keep in mind that the map design crew performs a different job than those who design the Mechs. Both have independent tasks with seperate focus on level and environmental design and character design / 3d-rigging. We do appreciate that some players would like to see more maps sooner and others would like to see more Mechs sooner, but it isn't a trade-off of one for the other.

All maps are earth bowl ffs.

[IraqiWalker]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 26 April 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

Mentoring Deliciousness

Some players (like Koniving) have released several video tutorials on Youtube, I have noticed that many new players have actually used them, and enjoyed them, would you consider the idea of having us make a few tutorial videos and guides (especially now that the launch module is going to allow private matches), with clean language and a more professional look, and submitting them to you for review and possible addition into the website?

[Randalf Yorgen]

for everyone dumping on the OP, go and re read his OP, really READ IT, check how broken his English is in a few areas of his post and come back and try to tell me that English is his first language. You are all very fast to call him a douche and say that he has no manners, perhaps you need to check yourselves in the mirror first.

and for CS, I'm not going to read it so don't even bother. NEXT

[IraqiWalker]

Randalf Yorgen, on 26 April 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

and for CS, I'm not going to read it so don't even bother. NEXT

What's CS?

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 26 April 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

If that actually happened...I would be so happy.

I know, not easy, but I think we can put soap in our mouths for a few minutes every 2 years or so

I'll actually ask around and talk to some people, if private matches can allow us to do 1v1 (I assume with premium), then tutorials would become SIGNIFICANTLY easier to do than right now. Our current method is record a drop we're in, and hope to god what we want to talk about, happens. Also, 1v1 would allow us to mentor new players easily.

[Randalf Yorgen]

cs is one of the other posters.