70 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

If you're serious about buying something, I'll just put this out there.
This is for the estimated prices post release, vs the clan packs.

Ovion]So far, on all the mechs have been pretty close to the TT prices (+/-10%).[/i, said:

Everyone I checked, was close.
Adding in MC and £ costs (I cba to do dollars, as my excel sheet is in real money )

Kit Fox (Uller) - 30T - 5.4 million C-Bills / 2160 MC. (£6.43 each, £19.30 for 3)

Adder (Puma) - 35T - 7 million C-Bills / 2800 MC. (£8.34, each £25.01 for 3)

Nova (Black Hawk) - 50T - 11.5 million C-Bills / 4600 MC. (£13.70, each £41.09 for 3)

Stormcrow (Ryoken) - 55T - 14.8 million C-Bills / 5925 MC. (£17.63, each £52.89 for 3)

Summoner (Thor) - 70T - 21.3 million C-Bills / 8525 MC. (£25.37, each £76.11 for 3)

Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) - 75T - 24.2 million C-Bills / 9685 MC. (£28.83, each £86.48 for 3)

Warhawk (Masakari) - 85T - 26.4 million C-Bills / 10565 MC. (£31.45, each £94.34 for 3)

Dire Wolf (Daishi) - 100T - 29.4 million C-Bills / 11765 MC. (£35.02, each £105.06 for 3)

Uller Collection £17.87
Masakari Collection £142.95
A La Carte £32.76

All of them for MC post release £500.28
Buying the Kitfox or Adder a la carte would be dumb.
One has a cheaper pack already, and both will be cheaper for MC.

Other than that, it's all cheaper than it likely will be for MC.

All numbers apart from current pack costs are estimated based on current trends, and may not match actual costs.[i]

Edited by Ovion, 26 April 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Malleus011]

I'd be extremely cautious about pre-orders. As several other posters have pointed out, Clan 'mechs and Clan tech have a significant amount of undisclosed variables; even things that PGI has revealed already can't be considered reliable until we actually have the 'mech delivered in-game.

Waiting until the first Clan packages are delivered would be wise. You'll miss out on a few dollars worth of freebies, but you'll be risking a AAA-title sized purchase to gain those few bucks worth of stuff. Once they deliver, you can get a look at the 'mechs and the technology as they function in-game, and probably even get some opinions on the usefulness of various Clan 'mechs.

I know if I had it to do over again, my Phoenix purchase would have been significantly different. While PGI delivers the letter of what they promise, there will be unexpected surprises that may cause buyer's remorse.

[Bishop Steiner]

RedDragon, on 26 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

*sigh* I'm very tired of all that white-/black knighting. I just want to get the facts straight so everyone (like the OP) can make their own decision whether it is worth investing in MWO. You can sugar coat all those empty promises, but it won't alter the fact that PGI time and again made promises they did not keep.

In fact, they did tell us that CW would launch in 3 phases over the next 6 months in September. That was a major selling point for many of us who bought the Phoenix packs. Maybe you forgot it, but those are facts. Many of us have learned from this and new players should at least know about it to make the right decisions.

caree to show me on the phoenix pack promotionals where they were connected? I'm very much a grey knight, for the record, or more accurately a jaded shaded one, But if you insist on perfect accuracy, then please deliver it yourself.

StaggerCheck, on 26 April 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Bishop, I know and understand what you are saying, but my point was this... Will PGI put us into a position where we can swap the ballistic arm of the Prime, A and C variant? If so, that isn't much variety, considering they're all the same. So, if the three Mechs we get in the package are the Prime, A and C variants, that really isn't a very good package, is it? If that is the case, it makes the Summoner the worst possible Mech to choose for $55.00. BUT... if we get the Prime, B and D variants, that isn't at all bad. Now, had PGI come out and ended the speculation on that by now, my thinking is they'd have sold many more bundles and packages. That is just me, though. Perhaps I am just a picky consumer, and other people have no worry over what they'll get for $55.00.

also curious if they will get reinforcements like the Phoenix Mechs did, both in Chassis, and like last month, variants. I agree we need to know more.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 April 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[RedDragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

caree to show me on the phoenix pack promotionals where they were connected?

What do you mean by connected? The Phoenix packs were advertised with the loyalty bonuses (you can read it here http://mwomercs.com/...t-phoenix-faqs/) and since they claimed in September that CW would be out over the next few months (it should be noted that they must have known at that time that this was nothing but illusionary, since they wanted to get the license first, which we found out only now - it could well have been that there wouldn't be a CW ever if M$ hadn't extended the license) many of us thought it a good deal to get some bonus loyalty points through Project Phoenix.
I don't care to find the announcements for CW here on this page, most likely they deleted them anyway. But a quick google search lets you find the news articles from September/October that were written after the Devs' announcement, for example this one, if you are too lazy to search for yourself (which you seem to be by calling me out on it - you should know the history of CW, since you are a Founder yourself).
http://www.vg247.com...s-details-here/

[Captain Pabst]

Yea, what is up with the really slow speed on the lights? Are they going to be able to go faster? Otherwise, they are pretty much useless.

[Durant Carlyle]

MacheteJezter, on 26 April 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Yea, what is up with the really slow speed on the lights? Are they going to be able to go faster? Otherwise, they are pretty much useless.

That's the way they are in canon. And no, other than Speed Tweak.

[Ultimax]

Jun Watarase, on 26 April 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

They blew their one big chance to turn things around, just because they got greedy and decided to increase mech prices, when almost everyone was saying that it was too expensive.

I don't understand the logic here honestly. I can't imagine what kind of meetings go on over there.

You don't understand the logic, because you don't see what they see on the back-end - which is actual sales data.


Unlike the forums where apparently no one will ever spend a single cent, or everything is too high priced - the reality is people are still buying things. Still buying hero mechs, I see plenty of them in matches.



So the logic is based on their sales data. People are clearly spending money.


And ultimately, for $240 clan pack you actually get 24 total mech variants, plus a mechbay for each, and premium time, and all of the other things.


If you're priced out of that range, well that's fair. I might even be priced out of it, because it's more mechs than I really want.


That doesn't mean it isn't a decent price compared to what's in the store now, and they will be making money off of it.

It's entertainment, someone who goes to the movies with a date twice a month or goes to the local bar every weekend will probably spend more money than someone who buys a clan pack and plays the hell out of it for a year.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 April 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 26 April 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

You don't understand the logic, because you don't see what they see on the back-end - which is actual sales data.


Unlike the forums where apparently no one will ever spend a single cent, or everything is too high priced - the reality is people are still buying things. Still buying hero mechs, I see plenty of them in matches.



So the logic is based on their sales data. People are clearly spending money.


And ultimately, for $240 clan pack you actually get 24 total mech variants, plus a mechbay for each, and premium time, and all of the other things.


If you're priced out of that range, well that's fair. I might even be priced out of it, because it's more mechs than I really want.


That doesn't mean it isn't a decent price compared to what's in the store now, and they will be making money off of it.

It's entertainment, someone who goes to the movies with a date twice a month or goes to the local bar every weekend will probably spend more money than someone who buys a clan pack and plays the hell out of it for a year.

10 bucks a pop. Not bad. Sure especially in the past some variants are less desirable than others, but with Omni-Customization, barring really bad configuration choices, I don't see that happening , as essentially, past leveling your skills, all the other chassis are there for are to be parts for your Prime. I didn't want to go crazy, so I bought a Thor Pack on my Alt Account. So 9 Mechs, 9 Mech Bays and 30 days premium time. The premium time comes to about 12 bucks. You figure the closest equivalent to them In Inner Sphere Mechs (Heros for the Primes, most expensive IS cbill versions for the alts) and it's about 23000 MC. 25000 is 99.95$ USD So it seems a bit of a wash. Except these are not inner sphere mechs, and there is no way they will be priced in the same ball park. And part of what one pays for is the early access. Mind you, it's not that much earlier if they release 2 clan chassis a month, but that is still part of the deal.

So people can try to argue back and forth about it all they want, without hard data on chassis and costs of clan gear, it's all smoke and mirrors. Therefore all one can really do is ask if it seems like a reasonable deal for them, and piss on what anyone else in the forums think.

[Daekar]

The packages are a better deal, but it depends on what you want out of your cash. I bought an a la carte Stormcrow because that was the only chassis I really wanted to have the special variant for. It's not that I don't want the others, but I can drop some cash on the mechbays and buy them later. Besides, what else am I going to do with my C-bills? Gotta have something to work for.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I won't tell you what to do but I will tell you what I've decided. I will not be purchasing the clan package. I will wait for the cbill versions.

I bought the overlord package last time around but in retrospect I wouldn't do it again. I don't regret it necessarily but when you boil it down and take away all the bells and whistles you're paying to get those mechs early (in some cases months early). I've enjoyed playing most of those mechs but I think I would have been better served to just wait.

I probably would've bought something on a impulse buy if the sticker shock hadn't been so high. But Clan mechs will be coming out two at a time. So I'll only have to wait until the second batch for my Dire Wolf and 4 months for everthing in the package.

[Zordicron]

I stopped in here to see what logic people were using as to the if you should buy etc.

I cant make myself do it. I got overlord last round about halfway through the thing(halfway from begining till close of sale) but that time I knew what I was getting, mostly. Looks are sorta important, but Alex and crew havent let me down once in that department, so I dont worry about that. The rest of the details could be inferred from just reading sarna some.

This is similar with the clans, I am sure Alex and crew will make them look cool. I know what mechs I am getting. But there is one critical difference: We dont know how clan mechs will work. We dont know the weapons, we dont know how clan DHS will work, or if they will get survivability enhancments or nerfs because of the clan XL engine. We do know:

You cant change the engines. Holy shit batman, those light mechs are going to run over 50kph slower then the IS counterparts will be able to, sometime 70kph. Customize for more speed or to make more tonnage available? Why? because:

You wont be able to change weapons anyway, just ENTIRE MECH COMPONANTS. Dont like that one weapon, well, swap the whole arm out. Wish you could add another ERML to your mech for a little more firepower? NEIN!! Not unless it is allowed by the clan mech "omni" overlords.

Autocannons will be burstfire. IMO, I like this idea, wish it applied to all AC. I think Paul figured it would help balance UAC20's vs AC20 by having burst vs slug. LBX for clan will have selectable ammo. There are no standard AC in clans. So you have a choice between burst fire AC, or likely ammo limitations to get slugs on clan LBX(I imagine Paul will mke it so one ton of ammo=half slug and half pellets, so you need double ammo tons to get the slug count you want). wait a minute, who says we will be able to add more ammo? Wont that be part of the pods too? Hope you like your ammo counts.

The clan er lasers have traditional higher heat output. Will clan DHS do the trick? far as I know, you cant change how many you equip on those either(go "pods") so then, will our backwards high cap/low dissipation heat system allow you to actually fire your ER lasers more then once without making betty go off? Who knows.

Clan missiles will be lighter, but as you cant really adjust anything on your mech anyway, who cares? Weapon tonnage is completely moot when you cant swap them without changing the whole mech pod. there will jsut be certain combos you can run, and thats that. no fine tuning "drop that one heatsink for more ammo" or "drop some leg armor for that extra ML" or "drop my engine down one rating to fit on more ammo or armor" So then, thats irrelevent. No minimum range for LRM? Oh man, that would be pretty killer. No worries! paul is making them do a sliding dmg scale based on range, where anything inside IS LRM min range for clan LRM gets a reduction on a slide from max->zero at point blank range. so I guess there is advantage, sorta, if you dont mind losing half dmg fireing the LRM you have at enemy at 100M. I am sure we will see a heat penalty to balance super awesome clan LRm too.

All Clan SRM are streaks. "Cool, they will get lock on!" yeah, and work like IS streaks do. Sure, lights will run in fear of your SSRM6 packs. Atlas says hello, Y U shoot my legs with puny missiles?

All that said, traditionally clan mechs were superior in speed, firepower, range, and even durability in some cases. Do not expect this to be in MWO. paul's goal is to make them on equal footing with IS. Hence, wierd non lore alterations to the weapons. Will they be on equal footing? Who knows. So far, PGI has spent like 2 years trying to balance the IS weapons. My guess is, no, clan mechs will be nerfed at launch to keep people from whining PTW or some bullshit. Nerfed, except for one or two particular loadouts/chassis that will surpass all other clan mechs combined somehow. Not sure what that will be, maybe I shouldnt guess that way, but it's just how this game has gone so far.

So, I cant make myself buy a clan pack. not yet. If they are proven to be fun, i will do it right away. But so much is in the air, including just basic viability, I cant fork pout that kinda money. IMO, the way clan mechs will work is basically backwards to IS, with no engine swaps and IS mechs having hardpoint system you can drop any weapon into, while clans get pods you have to use predetermined weapons in. War Hawk is in my top 5 mechs, I want it so bad. But I cant see how ghost heat+highcap/low dissipate + wierd pods I cant adjust engine or heatsinks on or even remove PPC for LL(yuck but required on some loadouts in this game) to reduce heat- with those things supposedly at the foundation of the clan design, I am not even sure the War Hawk will be recognizable outside of looks.

[Mystere]

Eldagore, on 26 April 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

We dont know how clan mechs will work. We dont know the weapons, we dont know how clan DHS will work, or if they will get survivability enhancments or nerfs because of the clan XL engine.

This situation can easily be fixed by PGI if they release the info now, unless of course they too do not know themselves barely 7 weeks until release.





HINT! HINT! This is the reason I and many others have not yet bought any packs. Does PGI want to sell out those gold packs? Releasing the info probably might just do the trick.

[CCC Dober]

Cattra Kell, on 26 April 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

You guys must lack something,
http://mwomercs.com/clans

3 mechs selected, 9 mechbays total.
Sure its 3 mech chassis types, but you still get the 2 other variants with each one.
Last I checked that means 3 mechs per purchase level - not one.

Or are you going to strawman this one too with precise terminology?

This was about irony, which went straight over your head. So pardon my french, but you are the one lacking something. A sense of humor that is.

[Mr David]

The biggest thing packages bring to the table for me is the chance to avoid the grind. Not only do you get 10's of millions of cbills worth of mechs, but you also get premium time that helps master chassis quickly while easily covering the expenses of outfitting the mechs. Outfitting clan mechs should be really cheap since DHS, Endo, and Engines are already equipped and fixed. Add to that the Cbill boost from primes and you will be sitting on a pile of money and mastered mechs in no time.

The concept of Primes with a hero cbill bonus is especially attractive. The best model of a chassis having the bonus is awesome compared the current batch of heroes that almost always get outshined by standard variants. Poor standard variants will get basically zero play time after they get mastered though.

I you were going to alacarte, which I wouldn't, You should get heavier mechs. The price is the same no matter the weight, but heavier mechs cost more. The mechs that look to perform the best based on the hardpoints of variants on Sarna and the current state of the game would be the Ryoken (XL 330, mixed hardpoints), Mad Cat (XL 375, mixed hardpoints), Dire Wolf (XL 300, tons of hardpoitns), and Thor (XL 350, JJ, may lack hardpoints even mixing variants). The lights go a bit slow, but should still be fun. The Nova will have to manage heat somehow with only a few optional non energy hardpoints, has big arms where all the weapons are, and is only moderately fast, but has JJ. Masakari is still up in the air for me. It's dependent on a few large energy weapons in the arms which invite ghost heat or compromised loadouts. Other variants should introduce limited ballistics and missile options, but we don't know yet. XL 340 is a good size for an 85 ton mech though.

[GalaxyBluestar]

just read this...



in bulk you do save but only allowed 6 of 8 chassis, but 90 premium time and 18 mechbays along with 18 mechs.

the pack deals get you the pack stuff like forum this and module that. both pack and ala carte get the buy in monthly bonuses etc.

the only reason i'm not buying into big packs is... what is half this stuff and what game am i going to be using this stuff with? oh yeah same old arena shooter thing, paul still unsure as to what weapons are going to do, not a clan banner in sight let alone CW. *walks away from deal*

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 27 April 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Mystere, on 26 April 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Just as a correction ...

It's $55 for a Prime and 2 other variants, which will then allow you to mix and match omnipods.

2 variants that you probably do not want to use at all. Which is kind of what happened with the phoenix package. Not to mention you could have bought those variants with c-bills since they have no 30% c-bill bonus attached to it.

[Jun Watarase]

Ultimatum X, on 26 April 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

You don't understand the logic, because you don't see what they see on the back-end - which is actual sales data.


Unlike the forums where apparently no one will ever spend a single cent, or everything is too high priced - the reality is people are still buying things. Still buying hero mechs, I see plenty of them in matches.



So the logic is based on their sales data. People are clearly spending money.


And ultimately, for $240 clan pack you actually get 24 total mech variants, plus a mechbay for each, and premium time, and all of the other things.


If you're priced out of that range, well that's fair. I might even be priced out of it, because it's more mechs than I really want.


That doesn't mean it isn't a decent price compared to what's in the store now, and they will be making money off of it.

It's entertainment, someone who goes to the movies with a date twice a month or goes to the local bar every weekend will probably spend more money than someone who buys a clan pack and plays the hell out of it for a year.

Packaging useless crap that you would most likely neve use is not "good value". Its a common marketing trick...im actually taking marketing now...its one of the most common sales strategies in the world. Package your product with a "Free gift" worth "x dollars" which in reality is only worth a tiny fraction of that...and most people just eat it up. They dont even care if its something they will put in a drawer and forget about for the next 5 years till they do some spring cleaning.

Ask all the legendary founders how many of them got a great deal with "4 mechs and 4 free mech bays!". Most of them will probably tell you that well, the only decent mech they got was the jenner, and even that became sub optimal once ECM was out...most founders havent even used their premium time or MC. So in reality they paid for early beta access and a jenner. For something to the tune of $120. I know plenty of legendary founders who bought the pack for 4 free mechs and didnt realise that most of those mechs were going to turn out to be junk. I also know people who bought the overlord package and regretted it once they realised that most of the mechs and variants they got were junk and they would never use them, or the mechbays.

You dont even need a lot of mechbays because there is no real advantage to having lots of mechs, since you can only take one into a match with you anyway.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 27 April 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[CCC Dober]

I would say that you are correct for the most part. I have all four of them in my garage and 3 of them were mostly catching dust before the introduction of ECM. Now I can't be arsed to use any of them, despite the generous c-bill boost.

As for the upcoming Clan Mechs, this time we have a different deal. Instead of single Mechs, we get those and 2 complementary variants on top of it, which reduces the grind considerably. If you have mastered the rather expensive Atlas, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Costly upgrades, such as Endo, Ferro and XL are already part of the deal as well. But the real kicker are the Omni pods, which can be used to create completely new variants, something that normal Mechs can only dream of.

Long story short: it looks like we get a lot more Mech for money this time around. There's a good chance that prime variants will see regular use (combined with Omni pods from other variants).

[Felbombling]

Here is an interesting thought... if you change a pod out on your Prime variant, will the 30% C-Bill bonus still count, or will PGI nerf that to tone down kit-bashing?

@ Eldagore I'm fairly certain that we'll be able to swap weapons within the pods at will. I can understand their desire to limit engine swapping and other Mech Lab freedoms, but not strict weapon adherence. My guess would be that pods will have hard points, just like Inner Sphere Mech sections have hard points now.

[Ultimax]

Mr David, on 27 April 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Not only do you get 10's of millions of cbills worth of mechs, but you also get premium time that helps master chassis quickly while easily covering the expenses of outfitting the mechs.

I did a rough calculation at one point.

Just for the 16 variant chassis, not the prime ones.

Considering:

They all have DHS upgrade
They all have XL engines
Most of them have Endo
Some have Ferro

It probably totals around 160+ million cbills.

Jun Watarase, on 27 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Packaging useless crap that you would most likely neve use is not "good value". Its a common marketing trick...im actually taking marketing now...

Good luck in your marketing courses it's a good but tough career,.

I work in development and my job is to help realize 4 different marketing team's worth of product concepts. Although if you're angry about this package deal, you might want to re-think if marketing is really the direction for you.


You've missed the point, I think you need to take a moment (breath deeply) and re-analyze because you certainly are not understanding the entire package deal.

The "free" stuff are the other bits. The wallpapers, the warhorns, the unique bonus modules.

Based on what is being sold directly in the store right now the clan package is a better deal then if you were to buy all of that post release.

Go ahead, spend some time doing the math. I already have, I'll let you do your own homework.

Jun Watarase, on 27 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Ask all the legendary founders how many of them got a great deal with "4 mechs and 4 free mech bays!". Most of them will probably tell you that well, the only decent mech they got was the jenner, and even that became sub optimal once ECM was out...most founders havent even used their premium time or MC. So in reality they paid for early beta access and a jenner.

What is information is on the site, is the information you use to make your decision.

Those founder's got what they paid for.

Is there anything on the clan package that says "there will never be any variants with ECM" or "X Clan mech will never have a variant with Jump Jets"?

No, there isn't. If you don't feel the information provided is enough, you simply don't buy it.

Jun Watarase, on 27 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

You dont even need a lot of mechbays because there is no real advantage to having lots of mechs, since you can only take one into a match with you anyway.

No, you personally don't need a lot of mechbays. There are people on the forums who claim they have 20, 40, or even 50+ mechs.

That means it has value to them, that means they are the target market for a giant package like this - and clearly you are not.


I have a half dozen bottles of scotch in my house at any given time.

I can only really drink from one of them at a time, they all do basically the same thing which is "contains alcohol and tastes like scotch".

What is the "advantage" to me owning more than one bottle at a time?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 27 April 2014 - 06:54 AM.