40 replies to this topic

[WhoDidTheElf]

The thing that is really hurting clan mechs is the locked engines. I would say, with the current meta, even if clan weapons weren't nerfed at all, clan mechs would still be destroyed by the IS. A lot of clan mechs are way over or under engined. The madcat with a xl375 is just crazy. Then the direwolf with its xl300 will handle like a boat, granted it will walk around with the hammer of Thor. It's still going to find itself getting stuck in a lot of ugly situations that it has no hope of getting out of.

Though we will have to see.

In think, at least for the clan lights, they will have to consider possibly allowing a very narrow window of engine swaps or possibly allowing the speed tweak to be more than 10%. As it currently stands if a clan light gets stuck out in the open vs a Jenner or fire starter they will loose.

[Firelizard]

WhoDidTheElf, on 27 April 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

As it currently stands if a clan light gets stuck out in the open vs a Jenner or fire starter they will loose.

Even against an Adder-A with two ERMLAS and two SSRM6?

[Joseph Mallan]

Hillslam, on 27 April 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

aw

Why does everyone Misquote me.

"Why Can't I have an Over powered Clan Mechs to fight against?

If you are going to quote me, at least have the courtesy to fully quote me!

[Hillslam]

I didn't quote you - I paraphrased the unwashed masses.

[AlmightyAeng]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

2 Clan ERPPC + 1 Clan Gauss on the Thor?

Everything else is irrelevant after that.

It's only got 3 hardpoints. It only needs 3 hardpoints.

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

2 Clan ERPPC + 1 Clan Gauss on the Thor?

Everything else is irrelevant after that.

Oh good is there a Variant with 2 energy hardpoints in an arm? The Prime only has one and I was concerned about that.

[Felio]

Is there any reason to think teams won't be a mix of Inner Sphere and clan mechs? I thought one of them tweeted we would, from a story perspective, be IS pilots in salvaged clan tech. They might have backed away from that, but I can't remember for sure..

[AlmightyAeng]

Felio, on 28 April 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Is there any reason to think teams won't be a mix of Inner Sphere and clan mechs? I thought one of them tweeted we would, from a story perspective, be IS pilots in salvaged clan tech. They might have backed away from that, but I can't remember for sure..

Yeah...they said that they'll be intermixed on teams...just no mixed tech.

All of their "balance" choices seem to be completely screwing any vision of a decent CW they once had.

[Artgathan]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

LRMs (while not being meta favored) will still be far worse on the clan side as a stream of LRMs will be absolutely gobbled by AMS as we currently see whenever anyone chain fires LRM 5s. AMS is far to strong against that sort of missile fire.

I don't know that Clan LRMs will be that bad (relative to IS)... In general they throw out 2X as many missiles for the equivalent IS tonnage (hardpoints/critspace permitting).

I'm actually looking forward to the stream damage systems that clans are bringing - I think it'll make the battles look much more intense (since there will be a lot more ammunition in the air at any given moment).

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Why did you crush my hope and dreams?

Fine, UAC20 + whatever energy tonnage is left, like maybe 2 Clan ERLarge however many Clan ER meds you can stuff on it.

Ahh I'm thinking 2 ER PPC + LBX 10 w/ slug ammo, but holy crap yeah 22.5 tons? Nevermind you can't even do that. That is so low!! That sucks.

Actually, the best we could do is probably 1 ERPPC + 1 Gauss, and remove missiles in favor of armor... At full clan damage values that would compete with the 30 pt alpha meta, but we will likely see lower damage from the ER PPC... I think they should leave stock damage and increase cool down (such that DPS is lower than IS ER PPC to keep balance) plus a slight bump in heat and call it good.

Edit: Also, looks like those 5 JJs are locked in so we can't squeeze any more tons out of it. Too bad... I guess Clan meta will be more about HUGE 100 pt alpha strikes from Dire Wolves instead of mobility and cover. Sounds less fun to me.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 April 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Sephlock]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

So I was musing today about how comp play currently runs in MWO and how the Clans will work and I started to worry

Clans with the current line-up lack a jump capable assault mech. This might of been fine if we weren't moving to a 3/3/3/3 format where we could of gotten Summoner happy and pop-tarted the crap out of the enemy like they do us, but we will need bring a combination of Direwolves and Warhawks (which are awesome mechs but don't currently fit the meta)

They also lack something like the Jenner F which far better suits the role of a fast harasser while being able to pull anti-light duty well. The Adder will carry decent firepower but it will be slow unable to escape Jenners or quick mediums. They also lack jump jets limiting their movement options.

We're always finding out that clan Ultras will have a burst fire mechanic (possibly LBX as well) so they will not fit into the FLD meta that currently rules the game instead being more DPS oriented.

LRMs (while not being meta favored) will still be far worse on the clan side as a stream of LRMs will be absolutely gobbled by AMS as we currently see whenever anyone chain fires LRM 5s. AMS is far to strong against that sort of missile fire.

I see the clans being decent in PUG and casual play, but Clan vs IS in a competitive format seems very shakey.

edit: one thing I forgot is will clan burst fire ACs receive a lower CD to compensate for the fact that the burst takes time to get off. Our only reference to something like this so far is the Gauss with it's charge that received no reduction on cooldown to comp it for the reduced DPS due to charging

All they need to do is remove the ability to enter 3PV and they'll be a great Grognard faction!

Just don't call their beloved Timber Wolf a "Mad Cat".

[Davers]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Yeah...they said that they'll be intermixed on teams...just no mixed tech.

All of their "balance" choices seem to be completely screwing any vision of a decent CW they once had.

Can't let 25 years of Battletech lore get in the way of mech sales, amiright?

[Craig Steele]

Davers, on 28 April 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Can't let 25 years of Battletech lore get in the way of mech sales, amiright?

To be fair, when they let any faction have any mech on day 1 they already set this bar.

Lore remains a very optional aspect of MW:O

[Khobai]

Quote

2 Clan ERPPC + 1 Clan Gauss on the Thor?

Everything else is irrelevant after that.

Until PGI announces Clan ERPPCs will have beam durations.

[Davers]

Craig Steele, on 28 April 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

To be fair, when they let any faction have any mech on day 1 they already set this bar.

Lore remains a very optional aspect of MW:O

True. In a way I am glad because if we went by lore Davion would end up with all the good mechs! But if mechs were 'by House' then they would be forced to balance them.

[Craig Steele]

Davers, on 28 April 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

True. In a way I am glad because if we went by lore Davion would end up with all the good mechs! But if mechs were 'by House' then they would be forced to balance them.

I'm not so sure about Davion having "all the good" mechs

But I do think MW:O could have done a much better job. They could have made the primary variants customizable and restricted to their House, while field variants are not customisable (because they cannot access factory settings) but still available to the relevant House.

For example, the Spider comes to mind.

Manufactured in Marik but is well regarded by the Kuritan's. House Marik primary model would have full customization options, House Kurita gets to play a Spider but everything is locked. Same with the Davion Variant, they can use but limited to the locked variant. Marik could be virtue of its customization deplay either of those variants, but may not as well.

It would be a simple mater of checking the current affiliantion of the pilot against the mech affiliation to determine which was "available" for that drop.

Lone Wolves / Mercs get no customzation, but no restrictions either.

Then we would see more house "flavoured" mechs with a sprinking of variants and the Clan Omni's could fit into that scenario nicely.

That's a more Lore friendly scenario, but it's not without it's challenges either.

Spilt milk though, bottom line is that Lore in MW:O consists of mech names and general mech outlines.

[WhoDidTheElf]

Firelizard, on 28 April 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

Even against an Adder-A with two ERMLAS and two SSRM6?

Yeah. Good luck twisting enough to keep your lock on a jenner doing a death circle around you. Once you realize that he has you dead to rights, you try to run. Only to be harassed from behind because you can't escape, and the inevitable coring happens. The Adder would have the range and punch, but it would be slow, twist slow and could even be chased down by a YLW, which would put a serious hurt on it.

I mean a xl375 in a Mad Cat is just wasting 6 tons. Really a xl340 would be fine, and if you really wanted some more gun, a xl325. Granted with a 375 it will twist like a mad man, but that's just too much engine imo. The Thor is a bit better, but I would still chop it down to a 325 tops...

I have no problem with locking the base heat sinks, or keeping the armor/structure slots locked, but no engine customization is really worrying me.

[Aresye]

Clan mechs will either end up being worse than IS mechs, or the forum community will complain about every single advantage they have (even if it requires more effort on the pilot's part) until Clan mechs get nerfed to be worse than IS tech.

I mean hell, Clan omnimechs already have less customization than IS mechs.

I guess by, "Clan Invasion," they really mean the superior IS mechs invading and dominating all of Clan space.

[Karl Streiger]

Aresye, on 28 April 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

I mean hell, Clan omnimechs already have less customization than IS mechs.

Take for example the Thor...we will have 300XL 4 JumpJet ES and FF poptarting verion Ds with 4 Energy and 2 Ballistic Hardpoints plus targeting computer.... including the reduced weight for the weapons....

Or what about the Puma - runnig 130kph with an Ultra 20?

If ClanMechs become as fully customisable as IS Mechs -there wouldn't be any reason but stubbornness not to take a Clan Mech

[Craig Steele]

Karl Streiger, on 28 April 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

Take for example the Thor...we will have 300XL 4 JumpJet ES and FF poptarting verion Ds with 4 Energy and 2 Ballistic Hardpoints plus targeting computer.... including the reduced weight for the weapons....

Or what about the Puma - runnig 130kph with an Ultra 20?

If ClanMechs become as fully customisable as IS Mechs -there wouldn't be any reason but stubbornness not to take a Clan Mech

I'm not sure what argument you are presenting here but the Summoner does not have Endo Steel.

Maybe you are trying to highlight what it would look like with full customization?