517 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

Do you mean to tell me people rely solely on others for their situational awareness? People do not look around while standing or moving?

This is a team game. Naturally, people are counting on each other to watch their flanks while they focus on the enemy ahead.

Besides, thanks to the stale as **** snipe meta, the game flow is pretty static. It is either don't move and get arty-d or move and have your torso cored in 1 second.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 April 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

HAHHAHHAHAHAHA
YOU THINK I"M COMPLAINING ABOUT HEADSHOTS.
BUT I"M NOT ! HAHA

If a guy with an AC/40 headshots I tell him "Good shot"
If a guy headshots me with a consumable he bought for 40k c-bills I say "wow.... that's dumb"
What did he do to earn that head shot? spend 40k cbills? oh wow. How impressive.

Lets see. 2 AC20 rounds t the head to destroy it.
AC20 ammo 10,000C-Bills
1,430C-bills per Shell
2,860 for good shot...

To kill you he Pointed his mouse to a spot and clicked a button...either way.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Besides, thanks to the stale as **** snipe meta, the game flow is pretty static.

Oh! Don't thank me. I'm not one of the so-called "Meta whores". I go up close and personal, and in a light no less.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Oh! Don't thank me. I'm not one of the so-called "Meta whores". I go up close and personal, and in a light no less.

I think you need to take a chill pill, bro. No need to be so defensive, as I never mentioned you in that post.

However, I can begin to see why you cling to the OP strikes, since you prefer to pilot a Light. So easy to tell people to move out of the way when you yourself are running at 150 kps, right?

Besides, piloting a light in a close combat is nothing special. Lights have more survivability than an assault in brawls, as long as the pilot is not brain dead.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Lets see. 2 AC20 rounds t the head to destroy it.
AC20 ammo 10,000C-Bills
1,430C-bills per Shell
2,860 for good shot...

To kill you he Pointed his mouse to a spot and clicked a button...either way.

use 2PPC and 1 gauss.
It's cheaper!

It's the lore reason for energy boats. Less supply lines needed to maintain. Cost effective destruction is best destruction!

We all get that you're take-it-as-it-comes Joe, but that's no excuse to ignore game balance. Arty/Airstrikes are flat out superior to every other module. That's a balance issue however you cut it. Yes, it should be deadly. Just slow down deployment, maybe reduce splash some. Increase travel time a bit or make it inconsistent at least?

With the speed nerf AC20s have gotten it's almost like aiming one at 400 meters. You shoot at where you hope the target will end up, sooner or later

[Mystere]

3rdworld, on 28 April 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

When you play against good players, it isn't as easy as just "move out of the way".

That is usually a great way to get shot to hell. Generally you see it coming. But if placed correctly with the right pressure you don't have many options.

Also anyone can dodge 1. Can you dodge 20?

Did you just admit that placing artillery does take skill, even if only a little?

Edited by Mystere, 28 April 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[3rdworld]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Are you speaking from experience?

<See, it goes both ways. Or in other words, you're out of arguments.>

Na, anyone that is good, knows me & SwK.

And this isn't an argument. As I said early, them being OP is common knowledge at this point.

But like evolution there are still some deniers.

Edited by 3rdworld, 28 April 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 April 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

HAHHAHHAHAHAHA
YOU THINK I"M COMPLAINING ABOUT HEADSHOTS.
BUT I"M NOT ! HAHA

If a guy with an AC/40 headshots I tell him "Good shot"
If a guy headshots me with a consumable he bought for 40k c-bills I say "wow.... that's dumb"
What did he do to earn that head shot? spend 40k cbills? oh wow. How impressive.

He didn't "earn" it anymore than the guy who makes a quick snapshot with a boomJager who hits your head likely earned it. I have seen few and far between the guys who legitimately get "targeted" headshots. Most headshots are just as "accidental" as an arty bomb hitting your head. And there is usually less you can do to prevent it.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Did you just admit that placing artillery does take skill, even if only a little?

It takes less skill than landing a PPC shot, but does upwards of 20 to 60 times the damage, hitting several mechs at once. I often don't shoot my weapons 20 times in a single match.

It does take some skill though. Mostly it's about being familiar with the right map locations. It's sorta similar to the sniper meta in that regard. You know the good spots to watch and when the opportunity shows up there... yeah. Doesn't matter if they see the smoke or not. Exit from the impact area is more than 4 seconds away and you put the smoke behind the middle guy or even better; right on top of him. It literally sits above folks and they don't see it until BOOM. Too late.

[3rdworld]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Did you just admit that placing artillery does take skill, even if only a little?

I never said it doesn't... I said the cost benefit to placing/bringing a strike is out of whack. They are too good for the amount of skill required and tradeoffs needed. And as far as the comment you highlighted, the lack of options is generally due, to the players being good enough shots, that "running away" is usually a death sentence.

Edited by 3rdworld, 28 April 2014 - 07:29 AM.

[CMetz]

I have now played over 3200 matches in this game. I have brought Arty Strikes to 8 of the matches. My W/L ratio is about 1.35. Data suggests for me personally that Arty strikes are not mandatory and are not dictating the result of my battles. This, of course, is from my personal data. For the record- I also do not run ANY meta builds, and all of my builds are balanced, with the exception of 1 mech that I use as a missile boat/command unit for organized games.

Conclusion based on personal data:
Arty- not OP, not mandatory, does not dictate final results
Meta- either the builds are not OP, or just another name for the boogeyman
Teamwork- the REAL reason teams win

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

use 2PPC and 1 gauss.
It's cheaper!

It's the lore reason for energy boats. Less supply lines needed to maintain. Cost effective destruction is best destruction!

We all get that you're take-it-as-it-comes Joe, but that's no excuse to ignore game balance. Arty/Airstrikes are flat out superior to every other module. That's a balance issue however you cut it. Yes, it should be deadly. Just slow down deployment, maybe reduce splash some. Increase travel time a bit or make it inconsistent at least?

With the speed nerf AC20s have gotten it's almost like aiming one at 400 meters. You shoot at where you hope the target will end up, sooner or later

I'm not ignoring game balance though mischief. I have not seen Arty be OP. Best I have seen is a Lawman Scout get 11 assists using one cause the enemy was clustered perfectly.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Lets see. 2 AC20 rounds t the head to destroy it.
AC20 ammo 10,000C-Bills
1,430C-bills per Shell
2,860 for good shot...

To kill you he Pointed his mouse to a spot and clicked a button...either way.

Either way? Let's not grind this down to a simple point and click. There's way more toss ups than C-bills to using 2 ac/40s than there is throwing on a consumable and clicking a button. Include the cost of the mech, upgrades, XL engine, and etc because I sure didn't get my DD an everything inside it for free.
Also, you cannot define a cost per shell because there is no re-arm cost after you buy the ammo, so the more you use the AC/20 the less the ammo costs technically.
And AC/20 does 20 damage. Arty does 5 shells of 80 or something?
There's a bunch of other weapons that you could mount that does enoguh damage to head shot someone, but getting head shot by weapons isn't what I'm complaining about as there's a wonderful thing called. This is a weightless, heatless, spaceless consumable that rich(not that rich though) or highly competative people tote around, without regards to cost. popping it off when the time comes just for a kill. That sounds pretty casual compared to the sacrifices that come with ac/40's....

Also where's this ac/40 thing coming from? Two people brought it up already but i don't run with them?? Someone called me a hipocrite which I think is quite funny.

[MischiefSC]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'm not ignoring game balance though mischief. I have not seen Arty be OP. Best I have seen is a Lawman Scout get 11 assists using one cause the enemy was clustered perfectly.

Come drop with me. I'll show you how to farm 400 damage per match with them almost every game. Caustic and Alpine are not that good for it unless it ends up in an H10/I10 standoff, but any other map it's 400 damage, give or take. If you're losing fast in the match you'll just do damage. If you can hold out for mid/late game, you'll get a kill or two out of it. I've largely quit using them but it's significant when used liberally.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

CMetz, on 28 April 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

I have now played over 3200 matches in this game. I have brought Arty Strikes to 8 of the matches. My W/L ratio is about 1.35. Data suggests for me personally that Arty strikes are not mandatory and are not dictating the result of my battles. This, of course, is from my personal data. For the record- I also do not run ANY meta builds, and all of my builds are balanced, with the exception of 1 mech that I use as a missile boat/command unit for organized games. Conclusion based on personal data: Arty- not OP, not mandatory, does not dictate final results Meta- either the builds are not OP, or just another name for the boogeyman Teamwork- the REAL reason teams win

I've also run around 3000 matches. My Win/Loss is about the same. I never run Arty or Air Strikes.

My Conclusions:

Arty/Air Strikes are out of whack compared to other modules.

FLD Pinpoint is out of whack compared to other builds.

Teamwork wins, but all skill being equal a team with full FLD Pinpoint and your entire team having Arty/Air Strikes will beat a team that doesn't follow that blueprint.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

He didn't "earn" it anymore than the guy who makes a quick snapshot with a boomJager who hits your head likely earned it. I have seen few and far between the guys who legitimately get "targeted" headshots. Most headshots are just as "accidental" as an arty bomb hitting your head. And there is usually less you can do to prevent it.

Whats with all this emphasis on AC/40's? lol There's so many weapons combinations that also get headshots too. You guys keep brining up the AC/40 thing like its just as cheap. I was also called a hippocrite for carrying AC/40's which i do not.

Edit: also, who'se to say people who tote ac/40's don't actually aim??? Are they exempt from using their reticle? Can they still miss their shot? Fluke headshots are exclusive to only AC/40 mechs???

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 28 April 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

I often don't shoot my weapons 20 times in a single match.

I went and checked my stats after reading this. I seem to average between 14-25 shots per match.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'm not ignoring game balance though mischief. I have not seen Arty be OP. Best I have seen is a Lawman Scout get 11 assists using one cause the enemy was clustered perfectly.

Now imagine 11 more strikes are still waiting to be used by his side. Hell, we don't need no guns anymore!

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Come drop with me. I'll show you how to farm 400 damage per match with them almost every game. Caustic and Alpine are not that good for it unless it ends up in an H10/I10 standoff, but any other map it's 400 damage, give or take. If you're losing fast in the match you'll just do damage. If you can hold out for mid/late game, you'll get a kill or two out of it. I've largely quit using them but it's significant when used liberally.

400 damage? Is that all? Way It sounded Id thought I'd be farming 1,400-2,000 damage!

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Now imagine 11 more strikes are still waiting to be used by his side.

Stupid Enemy!

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I went and checked my stats after reading this. I seem to average between 14-25 shots per match.

I lol'd. I just checked mine, I have dropped 3695 arty/air...in around 5100 matches (as far back as archieved goes, which was considerably further back than the arty buff).

Edited by 3rdworld, 28 April 2014 - 07:44 AM.