517 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

3 Strikes that hit me in 48 games... I am sorry we have to disagree El, but I do not see the terror weapon I keep reading about.

Well, given all the "Nerf Artillery" threads, it can be considered a terror weapon. I also dare say it's mostly psychological. Artillery does that to you, in real life or otherwise.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

3 Strikes that hit me in 48 games... I am sorry we have to disagree El, but I do not see the terror weapon I keep reading about.

I've been hit by em a lot more than that. And sure, it contributes to dying. As do LRMs, direct fire weapons, poor decisions on my part. I've also been nailed full on, and gone on to lead the team win damage and kills in a mech that got arty cored at the beginning of the match.

Crap happens, sometimes. Ask this guy

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Well, given all the "Nerf Artillery" threads, it can be considered a terror weapon. I also dare say it's mostly psychological. Artillery does that to you, in real life or otherwise.

I saw the smoke canister drop right at my feet... I clenched, and turned yellow. I expected more, I really did. I was both Surprised and disappointed.

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

I've been hit by em a lot more than that. And sure, it contributes to dying. As do LRMs, direct fire weapons, poor decisions on my part. I've also been nailed full on, and gone on to lead the team win damage and kills in a mech that got arty cored at the beginning of the match.

Crap happens, sometimes. Ask this guy

Pvt Derpowski!

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I saw the smoke canister drop right at my feet... I clenched, and turned yellow. I expected more, I really did. I was both Surprised and disappointed.


Pvt Derpowski!

the Redshirt Ensign of Saving Pvt Ryan! We seem to have a lot of Pvt Derpowskis in MWO....and oddly they same to be clueless why they keep having the same fate!

[MischiefSC]

Kyle Wright, on 28 April 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

How about you stop running your chubby assault mechs, standing in one spot for to long, stop clumping up wit 6 other knuckleheads, or use some situation awareness. I'm sorry if this offends you but the same goes with LRMs as do arty and air, learn to either use, cover, stay mobile (use faster mechs), or if you are a assault be aware of your surrounding more. As a Medium pilot and a heavy support mech pilot, im not gonna sit there and trade fire with 5 guys that are clumped together, instead im gonna arty or airstrike you to clear you guys out so I can move on about my day. In the modern battlefield, most commanders will air strike or bombard positions pretty good before assaulting it so learn to deal.

How about you read the previous posts?

I could repeat myself, again, but I'm not sure it would serve a purpose for you. Just read what people have written here, including me. Your post is the fundamental example of a strawman - you're arguing a point that nobody made and doing it in an implied position of superiority - which you don't have.

Read first. Then post.

[Magna Canus]

I would love to be able to use the following instead of ARTY;
Purchase a LT-MOB-25 Mobile Long Tom Artillery for 1,722,275 C-bills (+10k per ton of ammo/shot)
Equip a command module (required to tell LT where to drop his round)
Give LT a few tons of ammo
Target + fire + forget.
25 indirect damage for as long as your ammo lasts TT style.

[Screech]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

400 damage alpha--doesn't that sound OP at all?

Yes a 400 damage alpha would be OP. What weapon has a 400 point alpha because arty is 10 random shot of 40.(assuming 15kGXP upgrade)

Remove damage from arty strikes being assigned to the player then once private matches are in arty is fine. Hell given how annoying the UI is with modules I rarely even refresh arty unless I am trying to fill a skill tree in a crappy mech.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Pug matches are not a good measure of balance Jo. Just my leaving word.

Even though that might be the case, I have decided to dedicate my c-bill earnings to weaning PUGs off the only type of teamwork so many of them know: the murder ball.

As for PUGs who have learned to communicate and organize in-game, then it's a history lesson on why Mongol tactics were rightfully feared.

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Bottom line is, I am arguing that for a mere module, it is too good in comparison to all others.

Then bring in modules that are just as good (with more details compared to previous comment):

• airbursts
  
  • increased probability of upper body damage
• cluster bombs/mines
  
  • increased probability of lower body damage
    
  • area denial
• smoke
  
  • creating cover of moderate duration
    
  • blinding the enemy for a moderate period of time
    
  • smoking out the enemy
• incendiaries
  
  • heat-induced suppression
    
  • instant and momentary blindness
• EMPs
  
  • disrupting electronics
    
  • instant and momentary blindness

Nerfing is not the only solution possible.

Edited by Mystere, 28 April 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Even though that might be the case, I have decided to dedicate my c-bill earnings to weaning PUGs ff the only type of teamwork so many of them know: the murder ball.

As for PUGs who have learned to communicate and organize in-game, then it's a history lesson on why Mongol tactics were rightfully feared.




Then bring in modules that are just as good (with more details compared to previous comment):

• airbursts
  
  • increased probability of upper body damage
• cluster bombs/mines
  
  • increased probability of lower body damage
    
  • area denial
• smoke
  
  • creating cover of moderate duration
    
  • blinding the enemy for a moderate period of time
    
  • smoking out the enemy
• incendiaries
  
  • heat-induced suppression
    
  • instant and momentary blindness
• EMPs
  
  • disrupting electronics
    
  • instant and momentary blindness

Nerfing is not the only solution possible.

I've got no issue with Arty damage. Just saying reduce the cooldown; significantly. Increase the spread a bit, make it more area denial. Maybe tweak splash back a little. Not much, but a little.

Those are all great options - just that arty should be in keeping with other modules. Currently it's just absurdly superior.

[Kyle Wright]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

How about you read the previous posts?

I could repeat myself, again, but I'm not sure it would serve a purpose for you. Just read what people have written here, including me. Your post is the fundamental example of a strawman - you're arguing a point that nobody made and doing it in an implied position of superiority - which you don't have.

Read first. Then post.

I am not gonna read 8 pages, of peoples complaints or ideas or arguing to make a post. Dont recall every seeing anything on the forums that I have to read every single response in order to voice an opinion. As far as the superiority comment, you don't see me on here calling for the PGI NERF CANON do you? Arty and Air Strikes were worthless for the longest time, now they get a buff and several months down the road people are just now complaining about it?. Give me a break, I've witnessed to many PUG matches were guys group up and hold hands like elementary kids on a field trip crossing the street. If you gather in some huge cluster f*** you deserve to be bombed back to the stone-age. Just cause someone doesn't agree...

And before you go to the extreme of trying to say I don't know what I am talking about, I've been playing almost a year now, played last season in Run Hot or Die with Team 007 and played this year in MRBC in the HHoD 5th BTL Team running majority of our Force as brawlers and still we took top 3 next to Steel Jag and out C-billed every team that competed. We got hit so many damn times with arty and air strikes before closing within brawling range it wasn't funny, but we learned to adapt by spreading out or maneuvering unseen.

[Willard Phule]

Huh. A cool thing they COULD do (if they had the coders able to figure it out and implement it without breaking every other thing in the game, like gravity) would be to introduce the Arrow IV system with the number of Arrow IVs in a group that fire determines the damage of the strike.

Something like:

Arrow IV Artillery-

Primary Attack Mode: same as LRM with whatever penalties need to be added to make it useable, such as minimum range, length of lock required, etc.

Secondary Attack Mode: Someone drops an arty strike marker, anyone with an Arrow IV gets an "Artillery Target Requested" target that must be locked and fired within a certain timeframe (increased by the pilot tree xp) to be included in the arty strike. If they choose not to help the team or are just too inexperienced to be able to use their weapon system effectively, as you see so often nowadays in the Derp Elo bracket, it's not too much different than what we see with virtually everything else.

Damage: Damage can be handled one of two ways. In "Direct Fire (or LRM fire) mode, it's pretty much a REAL BIG LRM. Decide on an appropriate amount of damage per round....I suggest 20...and either have it nail a single location (shouldn't be too big a deal, since armor has been doubled) or spread the damage over the 2 closest locations. In "Artillery Request Mode (meaning you've locked on to the target and your missile will be counted as part of the strike), it does 20 to target hex, 10 to surrounding hexes (think 30 meter circles), 5 to the next 30 meter increment....or modify that however you want. The trick seems to be to adjust the strike to a certain area, so just make the increments 1/2 of the total range that is prior to that increment.

This way, the more Arrow IV launchers on a team, the nastier your Arty Strike will be. This also encourages team play...both semi-experienced PUG players and organized teams will benefit....granted, the organized team will most likely be using spotters specifically developed to drop Arty Strikes and will generally eat PUGs alive. But, that's no different than what we've got now..with both Arty/Air Strikes and virtually every other meta build in the game.

Just my two cents.

Edited by Willard Phule, 28 April 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 27 April 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Many BlobWarriors dislike artillery and air strikes because they destroy the only form of teamwork they know.

The better solution is to bring in more really good modules:

• airbursts for upper body damage
  
• cluster bombs/mines for lower body damage
  
• smoke for cover/blinding
  
• incendiaries for extreme heat generation
  
• EMPs for disrupting electronics

Nerfing is not the only solution possible.

Wonderful ideas. Airburst would be the cleanest. Have the affect be really "shockwavy" too.

P.S. If we get more of these cool Modules, can I get another Module slot, or 3, for my Stalkers too.

[Mcgral18]

Meh, half damage double shells. 20 Shells at 20 damage, increase cooldown to 20 seconds.

You have a weapon that has the exact same 400 damage PLUS splash damage but you can no longer instantly cockpit a mech, or remove a leg in a single strike.

Those who want more than that want an I WIN button.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Meh, half damage double shells. 20 Shells at 20 damage, increase cooldown to 20 seconds.

You have a weapon that has the exact same 400 damage PLUS splash damage but you can no longer instantly cockpit a mech, or remove a leg in a single strike.

Those who want more than that want an I WIN button.

Meh. Make Arty still a command console function. But limit it to however many the team has. But only the CC mechs can call it in.

[Almond Brown]

Goose, on 27 April 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Being regarded as mandatory is a leading indicator it's OP …

Mandatory is a gross overstatement at best, hyperbole at worse. Play lots of matches and smoke is rarely seen and if it is, it's use is quite limited.

Fear mongering will not help your cause. How many here take Air and Arty as mandatory modules when you only have 2 or 3 slots total?

[MischiefSC]

Kyle Wright, on 28 April 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

I am not gonna read 8 pages, of peoples complaints or ideas or arguing to make a post. Dont recall every seeing anything on the forums that I have to read every single response in order to voice an opinion. As far as the superiority comment, you don't see me on here calling for the PGI NERF CANON do you? Arty and Air Strikes were worthless for the longest time, now they get a buff and several months down the road people are just now complaining about it?. Give me a break, I've witnessed to many PUG matches were guys group up and hold hands like elementary kids on a field trip crossing the street. If you gather in some huge cluster f*** you deserve to be bombed back to the stone-age. Just cause someone doesn't agree...

And before you go to the extreme of trying to say I don't know what I am talking about, I've been playing almost a year now, played last season in Run Hot or Die with Team 007 and played this year in MRBC in the HHoD 5th BTL Team running majority of our Force as brawlers and still we took top 3 next to Steel Jag and out C-billed every team that competed. We got hit so many damn times with arty and air strikes before closing within brawling range it wasn't funny, but we learned to adapt by spreading out or maneuvering unseen.

Here's the thing though -

You're arguing a point nobody is arguing and looking foolish. Also the disingenuous 'then don't cluster up' sort of argument is on par with the 'stay under cover' during pre-heat-nerf ERPPC days and LURMAGEDDON and the like. Your argument is 'pfft, just don't get hit and be LEET LIKE MEEE!'

That's not an argument.

Absolutely Arty needed a buff. So did LRMs. So do pulse, still. Arty just needs the frequency dialed back so it's not spammed, maybe a small nerf to spread and splash. I don't have issues with getting killed by arty; I kill people with it all the time. Generally when piloting a light. A Jenner with NARC, tag, 4 MLs, 1x airstrike and 1x arty is an easy way to wrack up damage and kills when dropping in a group with some LRM support. In competitive matches the arty/airstrikes are a constant barrage and pretty telling on the way the match will go.

Far more so than who is carrying any other module.

THAT IS THE POINT. THE POINT IS HOW BALANCED ARTY/AIRSTRIKE IS COMPARED TO OTHER MODULES NOW.

Which, if you'd read the prior posts, you'd understand. Your post serves no purpose and argues a point nobody is arguing all while assuming some personal badassitude that is not only irrelevant but not suitable for the company.

Oh, by the way? I've been playing since right after open beta. I've got over 5,000 drops. You know what that means in regards to the value of my opinion?

NOTHING.

Arguments stand on their own merit or they don't stand at all. Anecdotal experience is nice for trying to impress the chicks but pointless for arguing things like balance.

So, again. Yeah, you want to participate in a conversation, you need to read the conversation.

Or you're likely to end up sounding like a jackass.

[Joseph Mallan]

Goose, on 27 April 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Being regarded as mandatory is a leading indicator it's OP …

Exactly. I do not feel it to be mandatory to have. My proof is the one Arty I bought I still have.

[MischiefSC]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Mandatory is a gross overstatement at best, hyperbole at worse. Play lots of matches and smoke is rarely seen and if it is, it's use is quite limited.

Fear mongering will not help your cause. How many here take Air and Arty as mandatory modules when you only have 2 or 3 slots total?

Much like peoples experience with poptarts and the old PPC meta, your experience will vary. That doesn't mean it's not OPed compared to other modules - just that not everyone in every Elo bracket is happy to blow 80k cbills a match.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Exactly. I do not feel it to be mandatory to have. My proof is the one Arty I bought I still have.

Not in pugs, but why don't you jump into 12 mans Friday evenings. Or any community ran even which doesn't restrict strikes.

Have fun in the rain.

[Kyle Wright]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Meh, half damage double shells. 20 Shells at 20 damage, increase cooldown to 20 seconds.

You have a weapon that has the exact same 400 damage PLUS splash damage but you can no longer instantly cockpit a mech, or remove a leg in a single strike.

Those who want more than that want an I WIN button.

See i would be okay with something like this. Still same damage potential, but little more spread out, which would give reason for people to take the accuracy modules. I wont object to a cool down increase slightly. With the current c-bill grind i rarely see people using arty because at 40k a pop you better be rocking premium time or a hero mech to make any decent c-bills.