517 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 May 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Do you want to see us get something more like Real Arty? Our arty in this game is a joke by comparison. The complaint against arty is the same as always, Billy bring 2 Arty and does OK, Joey brings 10 and the sky is falling. One AC20 is fine a 4man of Jager40s is overkill to some players. The point of this game is conquest. The objective is for me to kill you and take your stuff. To do that and to minimize MY losses You bet your keyboard I want to overwhelm you and never give you the chance to fight back. I assume (at my own risk) That is why everyone is here. To kill "the Bad guy" and liberate his things!

As such if You bring 24 ArtStrikes You are playing to win, and that is fine by me, I win or lose by my choices compared to yours. If I didn't plan and execute properly, I have earned my beating. How come so many cannot accept that fact?

No. People cannot accept that in a game with thousands of choices, there are people that are okay with there being a "Right" answer.

[Craig Steele]

Jonathan Paine, on 01 May 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

To all lovers of the "point, press button and pray for a killing headshot" strikes; why stop there? Why not include tactical nukes and just increase the c-bill cost appropriately? Nukes are described in the lore, and I have lots of c-bills to literally burn.

Of course, according the more than 20 books covering up to 3056, few if any mercenary bands had any access to artillery strikes whatsoever and no air strike was ever delivered without the potential cost of precious aerospace fighters. Furthermore, the biggest piece of conventional artillery according to SARNA, was the Long Tom. Damage? 25/15/5.

So yeah, either give up on a robot game, turn into artillery warrior online - or turn artillery into a limited, controlled weapon that does not one shot Assault mechs.

Good idea, although we will need bigger maps so we don't nuke ourselves in the 20km+ fireball from them.

You might be onto something though.

Oh wait, what about the Ares convention? That disallowed WMD but allowed artillery. Was the Ares Convention part of canon?

Also, aren't WMD more of a strategic weapon, with clearance to use them bestowed by a uber senior commander, not really a tactical local commander thing.

Hmmm, lots of details to overcome.

But let us know how you go.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

No. People cannot accept that in a game with thousands of choices, there are people that are okay with there being a "Right" answer.

The right answer is If you don't plan right you Die. If your enemy brings Superior fire power to kill you with He is doing it right and you are not.Accept that you didn't plan properly and either drop again or take a break and comeback later. I die a lot, I do it cause I chose to put myself in harms way to get the fighting started/finished.

The Right answer is and always will be the better team wins. And the better team chooses to take the equipment that improve their chance of winning. I never want you to have a chance to beat me, but if you do I chalk it up to you planning better or executing better than I did. Learn and apply the lesson against my next (hopeful) victim!

Craig Steele, on 02 May 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

Good idea, although we will need bigger maps so we don't nuke ourselves in the 20km+ fireball from them.

You might be onto something though.

Oh wait, what about the Ares convention? That disallowed WMD but allowed artillery. Was the Ares Convention part of canon?

Also, aren't WMD more of a strategic weapon, with clearance to use them bestowed by a uber senior commander, not really a tactical local commander thing.

Hmmm, lots of details to overcome.

But let us know how you go.

3070 Nukes return

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 May 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

3070 Nukes return

Only by one faction?

In any case, given its 3050 now he has lots of time to sort out the details I guess?

[Sarlic]

And up.

[Rando Slim]

WOW, I start a thread with a matter of fact declaration that arty needs nerfed among a few other good suggestions and I get 4 pages of mostly flame and detritus. I'm glad the OP is having more success with this topic.

I read a few pages and I think its funny how some people think its AC/20s from the sky. Read up folks: its AC 40 from the sky. Its not even within 10 kilometers of balanced. It isn't tactical, it doesn't weigh anything, its abused horribly, it ruins 12 man drops, it isn't fun. It would still hurt if it were 25 or 30 points per shell. You are really gonna tell me theres no middle ground between the AC-20 and a 40 point arty shell? Weirdly I count no less than 20 other possible numbers you could choose that would be better. Like maybe 27, or 33, or 31, or 22. Don't gimme that stupid internet culture "lurn tew pleigh" patronizing bullshit. LoneMaverick on page 1 nailed it. This **** of lights playing peek-a-poop wth it or running trough your team and using glitch hitboxes and dropping it at your feet is annoying not tactical. Ive been headshot by it in a ******* ECM Cicada running backwards at full speed, Ive been headshot by it 3 times in three different mechs, and had legs instantly blown off by it dozens of times. Yes arty should hurt, but not to where it instantly ruins your match. No VOIP means pugs cant call it out. I get ht by that **** all the time even in mediums because gee I actually play against people that use it right and put it behind you or in a bottleneck. If theres a bunch of fatties blocking you in front, and you cant turn your feet all the way around to run the other way fast enough, your only choice is to run backwards, in which case you will get hit by it even in a faster mech. Im not a great player, but I do have a positive KDR, regularly do in the upper half of damage on any given team, participate in 12 mans twice a week, have in genera done several thousand matches, and trust me if you see 15 or 20 airstrikes in a match you will invariably get nicked by at least one of them unless you are in a properly built light mech. Im calling shenanigans on these people who claim they literally never get hit or killed by it. You either don't play in a high enough bracket to see it abused, or you are just straight up lying.

I think it needs a nerf to 25 or 30 per shell if noting else about it will change. If you want to keep it at 40 points per shell or more then I propose the following: Arty needs a bigger spread, and mechs with command consoles should be the only way your team can use them AFTER someone puts a UAV up and then the command console mech uses the battle map to select a spot on the map lit up by the UAV to drop it. Program betty to give additional warnings that aircraft or bombardment are incoming and do away with the smoke. Now THAT idea is tactical, requires more teamwork, and more closely represents how arty is really used.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 07 May 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Scrotacus 42, on 07 May 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

WOW, I start a thread with a matter of fact declaration that arty needs nerfed among a few other good suggestions and I get 4 pages of mostly flame and detritus. I'm glad the OP is having more success with this topic.

I read a few pages and I think its funny how some people think its AC/20s from the sky. Read up folks: its AC 40 from the sky. Its not even within 10 kilometers of balanced. It isn't tactical, it doesn't weigh anything, its abused horribly, it ruins 12 man drops, it isn't fun. It would still hurt if it were 25 or 30 points per shell. You are really gonna tell me theres no middle ground between the AC-20 and a 40 point arty shell? Weirdly I count no less than 20 other possible numbers you could choose that would be better. Like maybe 27, or 33, or 31, or 22. Don't gimme that stupid internet culture "lurn tew pleigh" patronizing bullshit. LoneMaverick on page 1 nailed it. This **** of lights playing peek-a-poop wth it or running trough your team and using glitch hitboxes and dropping it at your feet is annoying not tactical. Ive been headshot by it in a ******* ECM Cicada running backwards at full speed, Ive been headshot by it 3 times in three different mechs, and had legs instantly blown off by it dozens of times. Yes arty should hurt, but not to where it instantly ruins your match. No VOIP means pugs cant call it out. I get ht by that **** all the time even in mediums because gee I actually play against people that use it right and put it behind you or in a bottleneck. If theres a bunch of fatties blocking you in front, and you cant turn your feet all the way around to run the other way fast enough, your only choice is to run backwards, in which case you will get hit by it even in a faster mech. Im not a great player, but I do have a positive KDR, regularly do in the upper half of damage on any given team, participate in 12 mans twice a week, have in genera done several thousand matches, and trust me if you see 15 or 20 airstrikes in a match you will invariably get nicked by at least one of them unless you are in a properly built light mech. Im calling shenanigans on these people who claim they literally never get hit or killed by it. You either don't play in a high enough bracket to see it abused, or you are just straight up lying.

I think it needs a nerf to 25 or 30 per shell if noting else about it will change. If you want to keep it at 40 points per shell or more then I propose the following: Arty needs a bigger spread, and mechs with command consoles should be the only way your team can use them AFTER someone puts a UAV up and then the command console mech uses the battle map to select a spot on the map lit up by the UAV to drop it. Program betty to give additional warnings that aircraft or bombardment are incoming and do away with the smoke. Now THAT idea is tactical, requires more teamwork, and more closely represents how arty is really used.

So I guess what you're saying is that if someone uses it correctly and their opponent doesn't apply any evasion tactics there could be a damage output. That seems pretty consistent with the game play model. Reward execllent execution, penalise poor defensive positioning. That's generally how MW:O runs.

So once you brush up on your evasion tactics, you only have to worry about the guys using it correctly then right?

Seems It doesn't need nerfing, just needs people to be aware of it and take the proper avoidance. Then it does no damage right?

[Warge]

Time to remove Air and Arti smoke sign...

[Monkeystador]

12 seconds flight time before the strike hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
btw: i always hated the smoke. Thats just a cheap way to implement it. Mech system could detect arty and warn by displaying it on the minimap and the big map!. Makes the same sense to me, more than a magic spray can with a hole appearing 1km away from me.

Edited by Monkeystador, 07 May 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[kardam]

This is holo-smoke seen from your cockpit only! Computers in 3050 are all about user-friendly interface, utilizing concepts familiar to humans. And Betty is silent about incoming strike because she's choking due to smoke

[Kyle Wright]

Last I checked radio signals don't weigh anything if my college physics class was correct. Essentially arty modules are equivalent to a unit being told they have air and fire base support during a patrol just saying.

Something that would be great would be idk... A 3050 VERSION OF SMOKE GRENADES FOR MECHS!!! That would help throw enemies off more. Have the smoke mess with thermal vision and sensors.

[Grayblue]

Mystere, on 27 April 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

As I have said in similar threads, artillery is supposed to hurt you badly when it hits you, and have a chance -- no matter how small -- of killing you outright. Otherwise, it's not artillery. And as always, here is the obligatory video. See what happens to that 52-ton Israeli Centurion tank 18 seconds in.

If you want real life mechanics in MWO, then you should also support having to send artillery request through radio and wait WAY longer than 4 seconds.

It takes about 3 seconds from full stop to get out of the blast zone. So, unless you saw the smoke the moment it starts, there is no way to avoid it. All that damage from just a cheap module which does not take much effort to use.

Warge, on 07 May 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

Time to remove Air and Arti smoke sign...

I would not mind that, if command module is required to have arty and air, and if time it takes for strike to arrive would be in tens of seconds.

Kyle Wright, on 07 May 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

Last I checked radio signals don't weigh anything if my college physics class was correct. ..

Radio waves don't.

But, C4I systems do.

[Joseph Mallan]

To be fair...

Radio equipment is included in our Cockpit so We all have the tonnage to call for fire built in our 20-100 tons.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 May 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

To be fair... Radio equipment is included in our Cockpit so We all have the tonnage to call for fire built in our 20-100 tons.

If you wanna talk about real world military, no average private has the clearance to call down the artillery.

The power to call down a strike should be limited to commanding mechs only, such as lance commanders.


Hell, the mere 4 seconds of artillery arrival time is wholly unrealistic. It's like there is a Warship hovering at the impossible altitude of 4 kms over the battlefield.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Craig Steele]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

If you wanna talk about real world military, no average private has the clearance to call down the artillery.

The power to call down a strike should be limited to commanding mechs only, such as lance commanders.

No Mech pilot could even be described as "an average private".

They are trained to at least the equivilent of a Modern Jet Fighter / Helicopter pilot, and they can certainly "call in" artillery on their targets.

Edited by Craig Steele, 07 May 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[El Bandito]

Craig Steele, on 07 May 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

No Mech pilot could even be described as "an average private". They are trained to at least the equivilent of a Modern Jet Fighter / Helicopter pilot, and they can certainly "call in" artillery on their targets.

Only designated spotter or commanding officer does. Others do not have the clearance.

[Monkeystador]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

If you wanna talk about real world military, no average private has the clearance to call down the artillery.

The power to call down a strike should be limited to commanding mechs only, such as lance commanders.


Hell, the mere 4 seconds of artillery arrival time is wholly unrealistic. It's like there is a Warship hovering at the impossible altitude of 4 kms over the battlefield.

4 sec is not gooood. Make it not 10 make it 12sec. I do say that even though i spend GXP on the improved arty strike!

I want arty to be are area denial.

Edited by Monkeystador, 07 May 2014 - 05:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

If you wanna talk about real world military, no average private has the clearance to call down the artillery.

The power to call down a strike should be limited to commanding mechs only, such as lance commanders.


Hell, the mere 4 seconds of artillery arrival time is wholly unrealistic.

Then How come as a Boot I was given training on how to properly call in Arty and Strikes??? And I refreshed that training yearly.

[KHETTI]

Currently arty strikes are pretty much used to pad player damage, with zero down-sides.
Increase the time it takes for the artillery barrage to reach target co-ordinates to something realistic and remove the smoke marker.
Airstrikes require and aircraft to loiter in the vicinity, said aircraft is vulnerable to air superiority aircraft.
Add an Air Superiority module(costs 6 million c-bills), adds 50% chance the airstrike fails due to the delivery aircraft being shot down.

[Craig Steele]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Only designated spotter or commanding officer does. Others do not have the clearance.

But they are trained to right, because in war sometimes people get killed and it's a bit silly to have all that expensive artillery sitting around doing nothing while they find another guy to go up and have a look see?

So they can actually do it, and in a combat scenario they may actually even be called upon to call in artillery, so not an "average private".

Or have things changed somewhat?