LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:02 PM
Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:
MLs can be pinpoint, if you are VERY good. You just have to hold them on one component, which is possible. Just remember though, that while it is more difficult to get the same level of damage, 8 MLs take up less then half the crit slots, less then a 3rd the tonnage, and have no ammo requirements, when compared to 2 AC20s. So yeah, it should definitely be easier to kill with 2 AC20s then 8 MLs. Same can be said about the comparison between MLs and the meta combo. OF COURSE the meta will be more effective, its WAY heavier than an array of medium lasers.
To the OP: MLs are very useful in close range. Their low weight and tonnage make them great backup/support weapons on bigger 'Mechs, and easy to "boat" on lighter 'Mechs.
Kids, energy weapons have ammo. That is, you have a ROF limited by heat. The energy "ammo" is DHS. If we had no time limits, energy would truly have unlimited ammo...but energy weapons instead are limited in firing off by how fast you can cool down.
First it got nerfed with false DHS. Then it got nerfed again by ghost heat. That's how we finally ended up with the dakkafest melded with just enough energy weapons to fire at relative heat-neutral while sending the shells down the line for the real DPS.
The old beta-era pilots, few as we are remember the reign of the Hunchback-P and later, the Awesome. Yes, that.
LocationMetaphorical Island somewhere in the Pacific
Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:08 PM
GreyGriffin, on 27 April 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:
Is it just me or is the MLas pretty... worthless? By the time you get in range you're being hammered by rapid AC's, if you stack them up their heat rapidly jumps off the chart as if you fire in conjunction with your other weapons, and they seem to take forever to put anything down.
Shouldn't the most common of all weapons be at least marginally effective above Lights?
If you have really low or high ping medium lasers seem to not work that well. PPCs, ACs and Gauss are better because you can turn away immediately after pulling the trigger instead of having to show vulnerable torsos for an extra second.
Kids, energy weapons have ammo. That is, you have a ROF limited by heat. The energy "ammo" is DHS. If we had no time limits, energy would truly have unlimited ammo...but energy weapons instead are limited in firing off by how fast you can cool down.
What a convoluted way to look at the weapon system.
'Ammo' typically depletes as it's used, so despite the fact that you need Heat Sinks to run lasers, they are not 'energy ammo' - and technically all weapon systems need Heat Sinks...
Kids, energy weapons have ammo. That is, you have a ROF limited by heat. The energy "ammo" is DHS. If we had no time limits, energy would truly have unlimited ammo...but energy weapons instead are limited in firing off by how fast you can cool down.
First it got nerfed with false DHS. Then it got nerfed again by ghost heat. That's how we finally ended up with the dakkafest melded with just enough energy weapons to fire at relative heat-neutral while sending the shells down the line for the real DPS.
The old beta-era pilots, few as we are remember the reign of the Hunchback-P and later, the Awesome. Yes, that.
Condescend much?
You do realize that PPCs are also hot right? And to some extent, dual AC40 is hot because of the huge ghost heat penalty on firing 2 at a time. Neither are as hot as 8 MLs, but the fact remains, that you are comparing 8 tons of weapons to 30+ tons of weapons and ammo. Your telling me that you are going to use the 22 spare tons on DHS (you can't fit that many) and that's why AC40s or 2 PPC + 2 AC5 should be about as effective as 8 MLs? Even if you wanted to say 12 or 14 tons to account for DHS, that is still quite a bit lighter.
The role of MLs seem pretty obvious to my. They have a high damage to weight ratio, but should probably be a little bit cooler. In any case, meta builds and AC40s should not be the performance benchmark when talking about medium lasers. Those builds SHOULD have more utility than an array of medium lasers.
This table needs updating with AC/2s and AC/5s. But before the latest AC/2 and AC/5 DPS nerf, this was a calculation based on actual shots fired within 10 seconds remembering that the first shot is always fired at 0 seconds.
Spoiler
AC/2, 38 damage in 10 seconds. UAC/2, 78 damage in 10 seconds. (2 extra compared to double since there's a failure to fire the last shot in one case at the cutoff point. Otherwise both would be up by 2 more on top of this.) (UAC/2 in TT does 4 damage in 10 seconds.) RAC/2, 228 damage in 10 seconds. (RAC/2 in TT does 12 damage in 10 seconds)
Flamer, 7 damage in ten seconds.
MG, 10 damage in 10 seconds. (Flamer, MG, and AC/2 are supposed to do 2 damage in 10 seconds).
Small laser 12 damage in 10 seconds. (3 damage in 10 seconds)
AC/5, 35 damage in 10 seconds. (5 damage in 10 seconds) UAC/5, 65 damage in 10 seconds. (UAC/5 would do 10 damage in 10 seconds in TT.) RAC/5, 205 damage in 10 seconds exactly. (RAC/5 would do 30 damage in 10 seconds in TT).
Medium laser, 15 damage in 10 seconds ( 5 damage in 10 seconds)
AC/10, 50 damage in 10 seconds (10 damage in 10 seconds). UAC/10, 100 damage in 10 seconds (perfectly timed to fire all shots). (UAC/10 would do 20 damage in 10 seconds in TT.)
PPC, 30 damage in 10 seconds (10 damage in 10 seconds).
Gauss Rifle, 45 damage in 10.25 seconds (15 damage in 10 seconds).
Large Laser, 27 damage in 8.5 seconds (8 damage in 10 seconds).
LPL, 31.8 damage in 8.3 seconds (9 damage in 10 seconds).
AC/20, 60 damage in 10 seconds (20 damage in 10 seconds) UAC/20, 140 damage in 10 seconds. (UAC/20 would do 40 damage in 10 seconds in TT. The Hunchback II-C Clan mech sporting twin UAC/20s would do a total of 80 damage in a single turn. In the only lore source I've found so far, it's described that each UAC/20 requires firing 6 shots to do 20 damage, and can double its firing speed to pump out 12 damage in the same time frame [at risk of jamming] to churn out 40 damage.)
The medium laser conducts 15 damage in 9 seconds [have to count the beam time that counts at 8 seconds exactly] (but that goes to 20 damage in 12, 25 damage at 16, and 30 damage in 21 seconds counting the full beam of the last shot that occurs at 20 seconds).
The AC/5did 35 damage in 9 seconds. (45 at 12 seconds, and at 19.5 seconds it did 70 damage).
The AC/20 does 60 damage in 8 seconds. (For comparison, in 80 damage in 12 seconds, 100 damage in 15 seconds, 120 damage in 20 seconds).
The Gauss Rifle at 10.25 seconds does 45 damage.
The LPL at 7.7 seconds (8.3 with final beam time) does 31.8 damage.
So yes, the ML feels marginally useless. Perhaps even a bit too hot.
1 ton and obscenely hot for 15 damage in 9 seconds. (12 heat)
8 tons + ammo for 35 damage in 9 seconds. (7 heat)
14 tons + ammo for 60 damage in 8 seconds. (18 heat)
15 tons + ammo for 45 damage in 10.25 seconds. (3 heat)
7 tons to get 8.3 seconds 31.8 damage. (24 heat).
LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:42 PM
Fut, on 28 April 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:
What a convoluted way to look at the weapon system.
'Ammo' typically depletes as it's used, so despite the fact that you need Heat Sinks to run lasers, they are not 'energy ammo' - and technically all weapon systems need Heat Sinks...
Ammo is how many shots I can put down the line in the time it takes the game to be over or I get destroyed. Whether it's an AC/5 that runs out of ammo or me having to ride the heat line at 90%+ stopping my guns from firing, I am out of ammo. Heat sinks are the item that dictates how much firepower goes downrange, just like that ton of AC ammo does for your AC/10.
Dual 20's? Alternate firing them, ignore ghost heat. Laugh at the heat burden. Let's not even talk about the effectively zero heat burden your average AC-packer generates trying to overwhelm his heat sinks with triple AC/5's or the like. Seriously, I can fire those things all darn day. I could even keep triple AC/2's going for long, looooong bursts even WITH ghost heat. I wouldn't be able to keep triple LL's or an eight pack of ML's delivering the same way, even without ghost heat.
Ammo is how many shots I can put down the line in the time it takes the game to be over or I get destroyed. Whether it's an AC/5 that runs out of ammo or me having to ride the heat line at 90%+ stopping my guns from firing, I am out of ammo. Heat sinks are the item that dictates how much firepower goes downrange, just like that ton of AC ammo does for your AC/10.
No, it really isn't.
Ammo is an expendable, finite resource.
Energy/heat is a renewable resource.
Not to mention that DHS powers everything.
SLAS, MLAS, LLAS, ER LLAS, SPL, MPL, LPL, PPC - you name it, they all run off of your dissipation rate.
AC 2? AC 5? UAC 5? AC 10? AC 20?
They each have their own, separate, finite ammunition sources.
Say what? All I can say is... you're doing it wrong if you're not having success shooting lights with medium lasers. Sure, the damage will scatter, but the weapon breeds a lot of patience. TL;DR, you're doing it wrong.
Generally speaking I would agree with this, but the hit reg with lasers (for me and many other EU/RUS/Oceanic players) is so bad atm that it's pointless trying to hit fast moving targets with DoT weaponry.
this sounds more or lss uselss in overstuffign yourself with lasers. you heta up extremely fast and then you have to "slow down" your fire cycle, and in that case a few lasers get obsolete anyways since you can not use their full potential. All they are good for is a last breath alpha shortly before you die anyways.
Ever try it? It's not as useless as you think.
Most times you fire just under ghost heat. First is a 6MLaser burst from the RH torso followed by a 3MLasers burst from your remaining arms and head. If you are low on heat and the enemy is real vulnerable, you can alpha all 9 MLasers without overheating.
If heat runs hot, you can break your firing in 3s or go to chain fire for an almost heat neutral continous MLaser barrage.
This setup is FAR from useless. It has great alpha potential (6MLasers = 30 points, then 15 points), and with a 6 and 3 fire pattern, very manageable heat.
My Swayback stats (all setup as 9MLasers):
KDR 1.87 (Archived): whatever ELO bracket 1.45 Overall KDR puts you in
KDR 4.00 (Current): whatever ELO bracket 2.07 Overall KDR puts you in
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Gas Guzzler, on 28 April 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:
