136 replies to this topic

[Flaming oblivion]

Nah because it's clear something is fatally broken somewhere , when the winning sides lowest damage 80% of the time is higher then the losing sides highest. And when you start become aware of who the pre made's are you find out what part of the problem is , 2 things making this games player retention laughable , premades and the elo fix these, problem solved.

[AlmightyAeng]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Nah because it's clear something is fatally broken somewhere , when the winning sides lowest damage 80% of the time is higher then the losing sides highest. And when you start become aware of who the pre made's are you find out what part of the problem is , 2 things making this games player retention laughable , premades and the elo fix these, problem solved.

90% of your comments are hyperbole. See, I can make up numbers, too.

I sincerely hope you eventually get your solo queue. Then you can play there, and analyze why you win or lose.

Until then, please recognize that this game was originally billed as inherently made for coordinated group play, and the people who want that are still around. The people who do so, and do it well, and likely care nothing for your 'but the premade is why they WON!' arguments. If they carried their team, they're damned proud of it, 'cause carrying some of you guys isn't easy.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 29 April 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

And I hope you realise that 90% of the releases are becoming money grabs with not much else nowadays, And I hope you realise that when the majority of in game players who disagree with you disappear and the game disappears with them you'll only have yourself to blame. To be honest its already happening the game cant offer a decent experience to new players because barely any are staying because of the state of things.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 29 April 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Nah because it's clear something is fatally broken somewhere , when the winning sides lowest damage 80% of the time is higher then the losing sides highest. And when you start become aware of who the pre made's are you find out what part of the problem is , 2 things making this games player retention laughable , premades and the elo fix these, problem solved.

Winning side also worked together more as the winning side has a much higher number of assists. even when the winning side only has 1 more kill. Teamwork wins.

[Agent of Change]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 April 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

If you are winning more than losing and and killing more than dying you have nothing to complain about.

I don't play much anymore. That has everything to do with the developers and the ... way they do and often don't do things... but, when I play I never solo drop.

It's not a crutch, it's not got anything to do about an interest in crushing noobs. This game has almost nothing for me at this point with out the social interaction. I have a positive KDR about 1.6 last i checked and a positive w/l I think (but it's a close thing).

I am a dedicated team player as are almost everyone I play with, If I'm the boogie man 'pre-made complainers" are worried about then a mountain has been out of a mole hill. Teamplay isn't about face stomping for most of us, it's about having a social experience with our stompy robots.

But the die hards won't believe it. They have it set in their mind that everyone out their who wants team play is out to min-max, seal club, and steamroll and there isn't any other reason for it. So let them have their delusions, give them their queue and grab the popcorn for the new rationalizations and ensuing cognitive dissonance when one sided fights still happen and people are still better than other people.

Edited by Agent of Change, 29 April 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

And I hope you realise that 90% of the releases are becoming money grabs with not much else nowadays, And I hope you realise that when the majority of in game players who disagree with you disappear and the game disappears with them you'll only have yourself to blame. To be honest its already happening the game cant offer a decent experience to new players because barely any are staying because of the state of things.

For someone who's only been around since April 4th, 2014, I'm stunned at how precise your predictions are. In the past couple of years, no one has EVER told us that something or other was going to kill off the game.

Thank you for your new and original take on things, and your continued use of random percentages that mean nothing.

With no sarcasm intended, I agree that the new player experience is a painful process...PGI hasn't helped that much. I dearly wish they'd keep new players in a bucket of their own for at least 100 games, and then have a GIANT flash animation counting down their last 10 until they join the regular queue...but the game it what it is.

Quit blaming premades for all your troubles, and carry harder, or write something well-edited and with less anger behind it directly to PGI and ask for better ELO buckets so you don't have players outside your skill level.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 29 April 2014 - 06:56 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

The game needs a Solo Only queue and Groups (2-12) + Solo queue.

This is why:

Forcing solo players to play with/against groups is nasty.
Forcing groups larger than 4 and less than 12 to use the premium private matches is nasty.
Also, just call me Mr. Fire if you're nasty.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 29 April 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

Using the date I joined is a invalid argument, This game isn't doing well it simply cannot hold onto new players, The only ones staying are the die hards , Anyone and everyone knows this they must. But I sense you'll argue im right your wrong , No matter what I say as you always do, Because your as certain of your PoV as I am of mine. Only time will tell if PGI wants to offer a game that gives all sides equal opportunities, Or stick to a game where the ones in meta builds and or premade groups have all the advantages, Only one of these games has a chance at a long term future.

[Revis Volek]

Flamming Oblivion, i am a new player and i dont think anything you are crying about is really an issue.....Seems to me most of the people on here crying just dont understand how to play this game. Playing people with a higher skill level then you is the only way you get better. I have enjoyed every kill as much as every death and the new player experience seemed just fine to me....but then again i am not one to whine or kick and scream if i have to learn something new or even change my play style to accomodate a different game, play style, mode, etc. The onyl benefit from Solo and Group seperation is threads like this would hopefully stop....im sure that a delusion though!

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 April 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[WarHippy]

DarthRevis, on 29 April 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

I dont understand why everyone is such a sissy about this....You only get better if you get kicked around for a few weeks. No one ever got better by listfully running through a meadow of flowers and locusts with no weapons. The amount of complaints is unreal, i have been playing this title for about 3 months and i dont understand what the bitching is about!? I enjoy the challange of dropping against good players or premades...i enjoy when i shoot them even more! Meta, Premades, Group play is all part of this game. If you want to run around like a chicken with your head cutoff wasting ammo and then all is forgiving because you can respawn then maybe "Call of Duty" is the game for you. This is a tactical, team driven shooter....i dont get how anyone thinks it is gonna be any different. I happen to enjoy my PUG games and i dont plan on stopping my massacre because you started playing yesterday, if you can sit in the cockpit you can get shot like everyone else. Like i stated before, if you thinks its unfair, maybe candy crush is more your speed.

I agree 100%. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Flaming oblivion]

All the wasted responses to me I don't read past the word cry, Because the fact is I don't cry I tell it how it is, As a PuG player I can only guarantee my own performance not the other 11, as a premade I can gurentee the performance of a 3rd of my team. That's a problem

[Apnu]

I drop solo and in 4-mans often. I'll say this of the OP, I don't agree.

I've had many matches as a solo player and seen the pre-made lance run off and not tell anybody else what they're doing and why and they just die. I've also seen them implore the PUGs to stick to a plan (their plan) which the PUGs gleefully ignore and we all lose. If I am playing solo and run into a pre-made on my team I try to stick with them and go after whatever they're targeting, that's usually the best course of action in most solo games that have a pre-made.
I've also been on a team of 12 solo players and have defeated two pre-made lances with one solo lance. Those games are the best.

I've been in pre-made lances and had all that happen to me. Sometimes the pugs stick with us and we do pretty well. Sometimes they ignore us and run at the enemy in one blob and we have to decide to follow that blob and mop up, or continue doing whatever it was we had planned. More often than not, sticking with the blob wins games. But sometimes letting them cause chaos and tie up the enemy while we flank around for a quick cap or traditional flanking move wins it for us. Sometimes its just a disaster as the pugs run at the enemy's defensive position and one at a time to die.

My point is, its all a wash now. I don't think having one pre-made lance per pub game is going to change much.

[AlmightyAeng]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

All the wasted responses to me I don't read past the word cry, Because the fact is I don't cry I tell it how it is, As a PuG player I can only guarantee my own performance not the other 11, as a premade I can gurentee the performance of a 3rd of my team. That's a problem

Why is that a problem? If ELO is working like it's supposed to you should be able to guarantee the performance of your whole team? Unless it's NOT working...at which point you get solo players AND premades whose skill is inconsistent with their opponents...

[Magna Canus]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Using the date I joined is a invalid argument, This game isn't doing well it simply cannot hold onto new players, The only ones staying are the die hards , Anyone and everyone knows this they must. But I sense you'll argue im right your wrong , No matter what I say as you always do, Because your as certain of your PoV as I am of mine. Only time will tell if PGI wants to offer a game that gives all sides equal opportunities, Or stick to a game where the ones in meta builds and or premade groups have all the advantages, Only one of these games has a chance at a long term future.

The main reason I have seen for people leaving the game is the lack of content or the learning curve. No FW/CW makes MWO a repetitive E-sportlike environment sometimes. More than once I have seen posts from people waiting on the sidelines to see if REAL content has gotten implemented yet or not.

There are tons of people out there, both in a unit and not in a unit, that offer new players help. I also offer aid to anybody that is looking for it. Yes, those in a unit will try to recruit that new player, but none of us forces it and none withdraw their aid either if that player does not choose to join.

Those that quit because the PvP here is "too hard" (under the guise of xyz is OP = I quit) are better off with PvE anyways. MWO is not everyones cup of tea, nor are skill based PvP's. MWO is also complex and if you are just interested in "plug & play" without wanting to take the time to learn how the game works (like not learning the rules of chess) then this is not the game for you.

Our soft, modern, western ways and PvE games on easy mode have made some players "soft" and unable to cope with a game that mandates that if one team wins the other must loose. "Everyone is a winner" really translates into "nobody really is". If you find yourself in that category then this is also not the game for you.

[Ihasa]

Won't all of this debate be moot in like 3 hours from now anyway? New launch module/match maker will determine that there is for sure a premade of equal size on each side. New rules will remove the possibility of the 4 Assault/Heavy/Medium/Light lances that get added to the already placed 2 Assault/Heavy/Medium/Light mechs making the teams extremely unbalanced. PGI has already acquiesced to the solo player by implementing this new rule of limited choice. And they have mentioned they are looking into separate queues recently, making the debate even more futile.

[Flaming oblivion]

ELO isn't working as it should , even if it were PuG's shouldn't be able to face premade's

Apart from my first week mechs all my k/ds , w/ls are positive .

Does that mean there isn't a problem no.

I'm not the greatest player ever I haven't played long enough my damage tends to depend on my team if I get one that scatters all over the place and I'm sat trying to catch up with the smart one's in my team getting somewhere I think we might just be able to dig our heels in and atleast put up some sort of a fight to the lost cause. I'll usually do around 200-300 damage

If I get a decent team that plays smart that number generally gos up to 400-700. No matter what I say or do when PuGGing makes a impact because my actions or my team mates actions can't make up for 6 idiots on a team. And generally they wont listen

In a premade you have 4 people which makes recovery from less intelligent players less of a issue . And just exterminating the idiots on your opposing team until you have such a advantage over the decent players on the PuG team they may as well have just disconnected at match start.

There in lies the problem if you are running as a premade there are no downsides

If your running as a PuG there are no upsides

The 2 should never be able to meet in battle.

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Using the date I joined is a invalid argument, This game isn't doing well it simply cannot hold onto new players, The only ones staying are the die hards , Anyone and everyone knows this they must. But I sense you'll argue im right your wrong , No matter what I say as you always do, Because your as certain of your PoV as I am of mine. Only time will tell if PGI wants to offer a game that gives all sides equal opportunities, Or stick to a game where the ones in meta builds and or premade groups have all the advantages, Only one of these games has a chance at a long term future.

Then you yourself are a die hard by your own reasoning. How do you give equal time to both sides? You cannot. Those of us who have been here for over 2 years have watched as the game looses more and more cause of the "I don't win enough" players. If it isn't Pre Mades, Its AC/PPC. If it isn't that, Its Missiles... Heck there is a thread started saying Medium Lasers are OP!

I win as much as a PUG as I do as a Lawman. I sucked when I started, but instead f giving up and moving on, I fought my way into competence. One match at a time. Fortitude is a virtue.

[Thunder Lips Express]

Since we get at least one of these threads once a week if not more I will post again. If Pugs don't want to play with teams on a team based game then they should have a pug only Que where the Pugs are in a 24 man free for all death match

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

ELO isn't working as it should , even if it were PuG's shouldn't be able to face premade's

Apart from my first week mechs all my k/ds , w/ls are positive .

Does that mean there isn't a problem no.

No it means you are playing at your level.

[Magna Canus]

Ihasa, on 29 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Won't all of this debate be moot in like 3 hours from now anyway? New launch module/match maker will determine that there is for sure a premade of equal size on each side. New rules will remove the possibility of the 4 Assault/Heavy/Medium/Light lances that get added to the already placed 2 Assault/Heavy/Medium/Light mechs making the teams extremely unbalanced. PGI has already acquiesced to the solo player by implementing this new rule of limited choice. And they have mentioned they are looking into separate queues recently, making the debate even more futile.

A very good set of points. The new launch mode may just eliminate several issues for many people. Not completely and not soon enough for some though.

But this is FWO (Forum Warrior Online) and we enjoy the fight just as much as the outcome.