136 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Why PuG' should never face premade's

1) The premade team has likely played together before thus knowing what to expect from each other knowing they can work together well. The PuG's have never worked together before and have no idea what each other are capable of.

2) The premade team will likely pick a set of mechs that give them a massive advantage , at best there not going to pick mechs that suck at working together, The PuG's are rolling the dice on this.

3) Most premades can communicate by teamspeak in the knowledge there 4 guys will listen or respond if they cant help or whatever, PuG's some just wont flat out listen and even if they do communicating in team chat is just to difficult once the battles really begun.

Anyone Who spends there spare time stealing candy off children and feeling proud of there big number results, Should continue to fight to keep premades in the PuG que. Anyone who wants to earn respect and there fancy win numbers , Should fight to the death to change it so they're not just simply feeding on the PuG's (which is essentially a case of no matter how hard you try you can't lose 80% of your battles in a premade vs PuG's)

Anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves, And I understand it it's hard to swallow because to accept the truth you'd have to accept the truth that the lions share of your win % K/D and high damage numbers aren't based off your skill but rather a exploited system that should never have been implemented.

Yes yes, same old arguments, same old blind assumptions about groups, same old tired victimization complex, same old excuses.

You'll note I agree PuG's should get their own queue if only to lessen the noise. But you'll also note that the problem isn't groups, the problem is man children who can't accept they got beaten when they get beat.

If it's a group vs a group it's cause one side used cheese.
If it's a group vs. pugs well team work is OP
If it's Pug vs. Pugs clearly one side was a synch dropped team of Seal Clubbers.

All I hear is whining. yes there is some merit to the separation depending on how you look at it, but it is largely subjective. There certainly isn't enough to justify the hue and cry that keeps circling. There are Seal clubbing groups, there are the highly organized groups but these are largely in the minority even among groups writ large. The problem is that people want to feel victimized, and then come up with reasons how it's not their fault.

I have watched Pugs steamroll A well organized team by simply out fighting them. Are there advantages that can be used yes, is it a choice to not participate yes, am I tired of this conversation, oh yes.

Prediction: We get a solo only queue and people remain unhappy. And buddy, I will give you great odds on that should you like to make it interesting.

Edited by Agent of Change, 29 April 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'd give even greater odd's that with the introduction of a option for premades to face premade's only , people will still chose to enter the PuG que to protect there w/l / k/d, Why risk a fair fight, when you can enter a fight with the deck stacked in your favour?

[AlmightyAeng]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

, Premade's no downside what so ever , PuGs no upsides what so ever, that is all

It's almost like the gameplay was structured to encourage coordinated teamplay...

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 29 April 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

It's almost like the gameplay was structured to encourage coordinated teamplay...

I was in a 4 man for both Win a Mech challenges. It took a combined 7ish hours to win 10 matches. The banter made it enjoyable.

I also Soloed on my Alt for both Mechs. I was done in 13 matches total... I was out of the game right after winning the Mechs both times.

PUGging is harder to get a win they say? PUGs don't have a chance they say?

I don't see it!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 April 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[Iskareot]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

When that 'deciding 4-man' is on YOUR team, do you apologize to the other team and complain about being grouped with pre-mades?

Yes... Yes I have. Because you know when you clear a 12- 0 run that something was just crap somehow. I mean really... I have seen 1 or 2 lances make the team obviously. It happens face it. Fair? No of course not.. balance is ******.

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Still not broken...but I'd gladly support the addition of a solo-only queue if it would shut up everyone who complains that an evil pre-made ate their baby.

Yes.. if we are going to have solo fairness we need it, pro yes.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think if there was ever a PUG only que and a Premade only que, many players would be suprised on how little the outcome of the matches would change.

PUGs would still get steam rolled as players go solo and do their own thing without regard for their team. The closer matches would probably tend to happen more frequently in the Premade lobbies due to team coordination. The only real thing that might change is some premade players might realize that they aren't as O.P. as they thought when playing against coordinated piers.

Still, it isn't going to be the end all fix all that many players think it will be. Just IMO from my experiences with the game since closed beta.

[Iskareot]

LauLiao, on 28 April 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Half the time I have a 4-man on my side in a Pug drop we lose anyway because the 4 decide to wander off and do their own thing and just assume everyone else is going to follow them.

Point made why there needs to be a choice between premade and being solo. You simply made that point clear. Thanks...

[stevemac]

So if and when they take the evil premades out of the Q who are the pugs going to blame when they scatter and die in a 12-0 stomp. PGI or IGP. Or will they actually look at there play style and realize that its not just the premades that ruin there game. Whats funny is when you have a premade on one side good chance there is another 4 man on the other. ex. last night we were running 4 ddc because after today we cant at the start the whole team would form on us and be happy about it. Next game players switched sides and they were flipping out about premades. What people seem too forget is you cant make everyone happy. And forgetting what you were told growing up your opinion is not the only one in the world that matters. In closing is this not the 200th time this topic has been beat to death since CB.

[MeiSooHaityu]

stevemac, on 29 April 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

So if and when they take the evil premades out of the Q who are the pugs going to blame when they scatter and die in a 12-0 stomp. PGI or IGP...

Yes, they will then blame it on the matchmaker. Remember, people never blame themselves for their own actions, it is always someone elses fault they failed

[Joseph Mallan]

stevemac, on 29 April 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

So if and when they take the evil premades out of the Q who are the pugs going to blame when they scatter and die in a 12-0 stomp. PGI or IGP. Or will they actually look at there play style and realize that its not just the premades that ruin there game. Whats funny is when you have a premade on one side good chance there is another 4 man on the other. ex. last night we were running 4 ddc because after today we cant at the start the whole team would form on us and be happy about it. Next game players switched sides and they were flipping out about premades. What people seem too forget is you cant make everyone happy. And forgetting what you were told growing up your opinion is not the only one in the world that matters. In closing is this not the 200th time this topic has been beat to death since CB.

They will blame Vets of the game. So then Solo will NEED to be broke down again and vet players will not allowed with new players. Then No ACs cause ACs ate their babies. The No PPCs cause PPCs are evil.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 April 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

stevemac, on 29 April 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

So if and when they take the evil premades out of the Q who are the pugs going to blame when they scatter and die in a 12-0 stomp. PGI or IGP. Or will they actually look at there play style and realize that its not just the premades that ruin there game. Whats funny is when you have a premade on one side good chance there is another 4 man on the other. ex. last night we were running 4 ddc because after today we cant at the start the whole team would form on us and be happy about it. Next game players switched sides and they were flipping out about premades. What people seem too forget is you cant make everyone happy. And forgetting what you were told growing up your opinion is not the only one in the world that matters. In closing is this not the 200th time this topic has been beat to death since CB.

And every time I've seen the topic its been anti premade rather then pro made, just a thought, However I agree you can't make everyone happy, Question is who should PGI attempt to please, 84% of there player base (PuGs) or 16%, Damn thats a hard one. Anyone that thinks a new player should be able to face someone thats played years doesn't believe in balance , and I can understand such a player believing premades vs PuG's to be reasonable.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 29 April 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Anton Shiningstar]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

And every time I've seen the topic its been anti premade rather then pro made, just a thought, However I agree you can't make everyone happy, Question is who should PGI attempt to please, 84% of there player base (PuGs) or 16%, Damn thats a hard one. Anyone that thinks a new player should be able to face someone thats played years doesn't believe in balance , and I can understand such a player believing premades vs PuG's to be reasonable.

Ok I still have a near 60% win record using this Alt. It is PUG only... It is on par with Joseph Mallan which is a mix of Team and PUG... Anecdotal I know but I will stand by the fact that the game is balanced enough that I can maintain a positive W/L against teams as a PUG.

[Joseph Mallan]

Anton Shiningstar, on 29 April 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Ok I still have a near 60% win record using this Alt. It is PUG only... It is on par with Joseph Mallan which is a mix of Team and PUG... Anecdotal I know but I will stand by the fact that the game is balanced enough that I can maintain a positive W/L against teams as a PUG.

I should correct that to say that I can win more often than lose as a PUG in a Mixed Que.

[Revis Volek]

I dont understand why everyone is such a sissy about this....You only get better if you get kicked around for a few weeks. No one ever got better by listfully running through a meadow of flowers and locusts with no weapons. The amount of complaints is unreal, i have been playing this title for about 3 months and i dont understand what the bitching is about!? I enjoy the challange of dropping against good players or premades...i enjoy when i shoot them even more! Meta, Premades, Group play is all part of this game. If you want to run around like a chicken with your head cutoff wasting ammo and then all is forgiving because you can respawn then maybe "Call of Duty" is the game for you. This is a tactical, team driven shooter....i dont get how anyone thinks it is gonna be any different. I happen to enjoy my PUG games and i dont plan on stopping my massacre because you started playing yesterday, if you can sit in the cockpit you can get shot like everyone else. Like i stated before, if you thinks its unfair, maybe candy crush is more your speed.

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 April 2014 - 06:16 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

And every time I've seen the topic its been anti premade rather then pro made, just a thought, However I agree you can't make everyone happy, Question is who should PGI attempt to please, 84% of there player base (PuGs) or 16%, Damn thats a hard one. Anyone that thinks a new player should be able to face someone thats played years doesn't believe in balance , and I can understand such a player believing premades vs PuG's to be reasonable.

Isn't that funny. Of those 16% the majority are 2 man groups, then 3 man groups, then 4 man.
So 2 guys talking together are so good that they can kill your entire team single handed? Or maybe 3, or is it 4? Let's say pride makes you say it has to be at least 3. So roughly 10% of the player base is eating 84% of the player base... and that says what about who?

The self same argument you are using to say "we are more, you need to attend us when we cry" is also saying that you are letting a small percentage of people eat you for breakfast. That 16%/10% has to be there at least half of the time you are on for your argument to be anywhere near valid that a group is the reason for all of your losses.

Since your team gets a group and the other team gets a group we are talking about 5%/8% of the player base that has to cover your time zone and enter your game for your argument to be valid. Factor that down a bit more because all units don't function in your time zone. Factor that down because not all units play on the same days you do. Factor that down because there are multiple matches running at the same time, not just your.

And this does not sound at all improbable or unreasonable to you?

[Screech]

Four more pages to go.

You can do it!!!

[Flaming oblivion]

Actually my w/l is positive my k/d is also positive on one mech , Doesn't mean the games balanced, Far from it , I don't really know why I'm arguing here I just hold this belief so firmly, But honestly it doesn't really matter what anyone says , may take awhile it may not but its pretty obvious PGI are moving towards separating the ques.

[Onmyoudo]

I don't group. About half my games, I (and 2 - 3 other mechs, if I'm lucky) carry hard enough to win. About half my games, I do not carry hard enough and we lose. Every now and then I die early and someone else carries hard enough that my team wins anyway.

Whether there are premades or not, I very rarely notice. It's irrelevant in the ongoing circle of carrying. Anyone can be an Atlas (globe dude, not the mech) regardless of if they're on comms or not.

[Magna Canus]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Actually my w/l is positive my k/d is also positive on one mech , Doesn't mean the games balanced, Far from it , I don't really know why I'm arguing here I just hold this belief so firmly, But honestly it doesn't really matter what anyone says , may take awhile it may not but its pretty obvious PGI are moving towards separating the ques.

Believing and knowing are two different things. To be taken seriously in life you need to be skeptical enough not to take everything at face value, but still open enough to change and accept a different view if it sounds reasonable. Have you been on both sides of the coin like Jo and I have, e.g. both PUG and Team play? If not do you really think that one side of the coin is an adequate basis for an argument people are going to take seriously?

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Actually my w/l is positive my k/d is also positive on one mech , Doesn't mean the games balanced, Far from it , I don't really know why I'm arguing here I just hold this belief so firmly, But honestly it doesn't really matter what anyone says , may take awhile it may not but its pretty obvious PGI are moving towards separating the ques.

If you are winning more than losing and and killing more than dying you have nothing to complain about.