36 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

A single 'Mech with no accelerator?

And nobody comes to kill you despite knowing you're there?

The rest of the team was playing Skirmish.

[julesPG6]

I agree conquest mode is basically like TDM Its nearly always about killing the other team rather than capping points to win because of the long cap time.

[Deathlike]

FYI, this change was implemented since 12v12 was introduced (that was what, August 2013 - 8 months ago?) No Conquest related changes (other than rewards) were made since then.

Someone is clearly not paying attention to the telemetry.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 April 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Why not just have cap points remain neutral and call them "Resource Points" so the game is more like King of the Hill just with multiple hills worth different amount of points. Center point worth more, fringe points less.

Also, if we're going to keep cap points the way they are then they should have deactivated turrets to add incentive to be the first ones to cap that point. Scouts become more valuable early game while assaults needed to tear down those turrets are more valuable end game.

Edited by lockwoodx, 29 April 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[627]

just want to point out that a match takes max 15 minutes so changing a cap point alone will take you a fifth of the whole match time. That means you can turn 4 points in a match if you're fast and have a small map.

Even with 2 light mechs with caps there's no way to cancel or turn a cap race. By the time you reach a difference of 100-150 points it's more or less run away and stay alive as long as you have one active cap point.

Conquest was never a favorite mode but with that change (and the small rewards) it's no wonder nobody wants to play it anymore.

[Deathlike]

627, on 29 April 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

just want to point out that a match takes max 15 minutes so changing a cap point alone will take you a fifth of the whole match time. That means you can turn 4 points in a match if you're fast and have a small map.

Even with 2 light mechs with caps there's no way to cancel or turn a cap race. By the time you reach a difference of 100-150 points it's more or less run away and stay alive as long as you have one active cap point.

Conquest was never a favorite mode but with that change (and the small rewards) it's no wonder nobody wants to play it anymore.

I'm not sure if the Conquet bug affected my rewards, but I get on average 10k less C-bills than Assault and Skirmish.

The math agrees with my assertion for the want to play it LESS.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 April 2014 - 11:27 AM.

[Josef Nader]

Honestly, with turrets in place on Assault, cap timers as a whole could afford to be tuned down a bit.

Conquest should be a much faster cap than it is now. About a minute for a full switch.

Assault could afford to lose a few seconds too. If a light can snake his way through those turrets and you ignore the base alarm long enough, capping should be a threat.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Changes to Conquest will never happen as ;
1) they can make money from it.
2) floods of tears from fatty drivers that think anything other than TDM is not fun.

[Mechteric]

The best solution I've seen is to not make capping any faster with >1 mech on the point, and to normalize the cap time to something like 45 seconds ( to go from complete enemy to complete friendly).

Perhaps it should also only count if its fully on your team (like in planetside 2), otherwise it slowly reverts back to neutral.

[Doomstryke]

The whole reason it was increased was because if you had a light left and an assault / slow heavy on the other team it was 100% impossible for the assault / slow heavy to win. with the increase for cap time it gives the slow mech a chance at catching said light.

It also means you can't 100% death ball all the time and forces people to move. Majority of people I run into only play conquest because they can't stand sitting behind a hill taking pop shots at a mech for 15 minutes. Conquest forces people to move and to get away from their safe spot.

Maybe make 2 changes. 1st Dynamic spawn location so lights have to find the cap point and 2nd quicker cap time for the first time a cap point gets taken. After that revert capping speed to what it currently is.

Edited by Doomstryke, 29 April 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Spades Kincaid]

Doomstryke, on 29 April 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

The whole reason it was increased was because if you had a light left and an assault / slow heavy on the other team it was 100% impossible for the assault / slow heavy to win. with the increase for cap time it gives the slow mech a chance at catching said light.

It also means you can't 100% death ball all the time and forces people to move. Majority of people I run into only play conquest because they can't stand sitting behind a hill taking pop shots at a mech for 15 minutes. Conquest forces people to move and to get away from their safe spot.

Maybe make 2 changes. 1st Dynamic spawn location so lights have to find the cap point and 2nd quicker cap time for the first time a cap point gets taken. After that revert capping speed to what it currently is.

That would depend on what the points/caps are at the time. Who is ahead and by how much. So no, it was never 100% win for the light mech. And if it was close, there's nothing wrong with the light having the advantage at that point. It's Conquest.

Actually I've seen a greater tendency to death ball on Conquest now. Because everyone tries to grab their nearest second cap, then it's a fight over the middle on most maps. It takes so long to cap now, that even the lights far less frequently go for a third cap (other than center), nevermind a fourth. It takes far too long. Even fast mechs are also reluctant to -leave- the central battle to retake caps for the same reason. By the time you get to one and try to cap it, you may as well just have stayed and fought to the bitter end, one way or the other.

By the time you are done, the death ball's have usually had at it, one side or the other has won that and you spent all that time capping for no reason (your team won the blob fight anyway, or they lost and now the enemy are just going to hunt you down and/or take all the caps)

So one side gets 2, the other gets 3 and then it's Skirmish mode until one or the other is wiped out (or nearly so). Then the 'victors' go hunting or capping again if there's some lone enemy left.

That's also why you have to be careful about asking for a longer resource timer. If it's too long, there's no reason to try and fight over the caps. Same thing, death ball until one or the other side is (mostly) killed, then go take the caps you don't have. There's no urgency to control them early or worry as much if you're falling behind.

Just greatly reduce the time to cap again for Conquest. It never needed to be raised when Assault was in the first place.

[Clydewinder]

Speed up cap times.

Make the cap points slowly "decay" back to neutral after mechs have left the zone.

Make the cap accelerator DO something. Like double cap speed.

Edited by Clydewinder, 29 April 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[elsie]

How about a second tier Conquest.

1. Larger maps - even if you have to just stretch the existing maps double in the X/Y axis. They'll look weird, but it's better than the cramped maps we have now.

2. Semi-random resource spawn points - they are fairly equidistant so that 5 don't all spawn in the same grid but exactly where they spawn is fairly random, even if one or two might be in a difficult but not impossible place to get to.

3. Points are not on the map until *your* team starts to cap it - this means you won't see an enemy cap unless they're taking it away from you (imagine all the lights running around trying to find the cap points). After you start to cap it, even if you never manage to convert it, it stays on the map.

4. After it has been in your possession for a certain amount of time, good things start to happen. Maybe multiple different things, like:
a. after one minute, it allows one mech to have it's armor repaired at a given rate, after three minutes it allows a second mech, after 5 a third, etc.
b. or after one minute it does repair, after 3 min it spawns a turret, after 5 minutes in allow a slow ammo reload, after 10 an equipment repair to fix destroyed internals, but not replace lost limbs
c. it still counts off resources so once it reaches a certain point, game is over.
d. If you flip it, you don't start from scratch, the capabilities become your team's instead of theirs, but if you have to destroy the turret, it will take whatever number of minutes to respawn as it originally took to create it.
e. you can destroy the ability for special effects (but not resource gathering) by 'destroying' the structure.

As far as speed of capture, in this case the slower the better.

[WarZ]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I don't even bother with capping when I land in Conquest at this point.

If we lose on points, but killed 8 or 9 of their mechs with our entire team still standing, I'm fine with the loss.

Winning does nothing for me, but killing b*tches is a lot of fun. You can cap to your heart's content.

Im in agreement, however few people I play with grasp this concept, all they want is the win, even if its only gonna net them a fraction of the rewards. But they are the same people who cry like mad when the team gets its arse kicked, and then suddenly they wonder why someone was capping and not saving their worthless hide.

As for the OP, I also agree capping takes a ridiculous amount of time at this point. It should be a fairly fast cap like it used to be. Makes trading and taking points a far more fluid affair. All they have done with making super long cap times, is cater to the "everyone bring an assault" meta that has gone on for so long. Another example of a really stupid decision, based ENTIRELY on the wrong reason.

Edited by WarZ, 29 April 2014 - 04:31 PM.

[Blue Drache]

I don't even bother playing this mode, it's so broken ...

[Jun Watarase]

At least conquest doesnt have two death balls camping in the middle.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Jun Watarase, on 29 April 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

At least conquest doesnt have two death balls camping in the middle.

Any map that has deathballs camping is a map full of players who haven't discovered strike modules.