44 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

If you are going to say "artillery should be X because of RL", why don't we look into RL examples of counter artillery equipment in that case?

Because right now, the only counter to getting an Arty strike, is try and get out of the way, if you notice quick enough, and hope you can move without stepping into a firing lane.

[Artgathan]

3rdworld, on 30 April 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

If you are going to say "artillery should be X because of RL", why don't we look into RL examples of counter artillery equipment in that case?

Because right now, the only counter to getting an Arty strike, is try and get out of the way, if you notice quick enough, and hope you can move without stepping into a firing lane.

That also happens to be the RL counter to an arty strike.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 30 April 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

If you are going to say "artillery should be X because of RL", why don't we look into RL examples of counter artillery equipment in that case?

Because right now, the only counter to getting an Arty strike, is try and get out of the way, if you notice quick enough, and hope you can move without stepping into a firing lane.

DocBach has several time suggested very helpful ways to have counter battery in MW:O... I liked em. I'd be happy to discuss was to counter battery enemy arty.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

DocBach has several time suggested very helpful ways to have counter battery in MW:O... I liked em. I'd be happy to discuss was to counter battery enemy arty.

Naturally the best way to avoid artillery strikes is to develop mechs that tunnel underground.

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 30 April 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Naturally the best way to avoid artillery strikes is to develop mechs that tunnel underground.

I don't think Doc suggested that, but if you are deep enough you are probably right!

[Livewyr]

Had a big long post.. the PGI did its 24hour logout on me...in the middle of typing.

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

This has my attention! Its goo to hear from someone in the field chime in sir!

I've done this topic before, I think this iteration will get just as much proper attention to the previous iterations.

lockwoodx, on 30 April 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

I love this. The audio warning should be linked to the grid the arty is dropping in. With only 1 drop at a time allowed per side there wouldn't be any confusion or crosstalk. Simply "WARNING: Atmospheric breach detected in grid B4. Estimated impact in ten seconds. Vacate the area immediately."

edit: To expand on this, PGI could kill two birds with one stone and also balance modules strikes by confining the target distance to the grid you're in. That way the pilot would have to physically be in the grid they want to use the module in before launching it. Then then command module comes into play allowing the pilot to simply open their battlegrid and pick which grid they wish to drop it.

2 Things:
A: Indirect detection:
--a1: At the POO (point of origin) gives you maximum flight time to react, but you don't know where it is going to impact.
--a2: At the target gives you the location, but realistically, about a second (or less) to react to it.

B: Friendlies would receive notification from the command console/module expending mech as a grid coordinate where the fire is headed.


I kinda like the idea of expendable modules dropping the arty on your location at the time of the CFF (call for fire). It makes the artillery strike a little less appealing for every mech to use it.

Command console might have some worth to its weight.. I think it should have multiple strikes available, targeted on the battlemap, but on a global cooldown (both teams) of 30 seconds, and a Team-Global (just your team) of 3-4 minutes.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

DocBach has several time suggested very helpful ways to have counter battery in MW:O... I liked em. I'd be happy to discuss was to counter battery enemy arty.

Israeli Iron Dome & USA Phalax are both designed to shoot down incoming 155mm artillery shells.

Only found a single video of them actually shooting down a arty shell, and I don't have any personal experience with it, but the C-RAM doesn't appear drastically different than how the current AMS functions.

Rafael claims that the Iron Dome has: A very high success rate at intercepting incoming shells.

Edited by 3rdworld, 30 April 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I don't think Doc suggested that, but if you are deep enough you are probably right!

I was actually being super sarcastic but I appreciate you took it seriously. So few developers these days are brave enough to go outside the box. I'd love to see a torpedo like weapon lobbed 10m out, bores into the ground then travels in a straight direction before detonating. It could have rubble, debris, and dust kicking up giving players an indicator of it's trajectory, and those with lower settings would see a nice 2d tile of cracks along the ground akin to mech footprints so they'll still be able to see it move.

Something unique and fun if not a little bit stupid because stupid things get a genuine reaction out of people. When you can pair the two together (stupid and fun) , you've got a genuinely great experience.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 30 April 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

Israeli Iron Dome & USA Phalax are both designed to shoot down incoming 155mm artillery shells.

Only found a single video of them actually shooting down a arty shell, and I don't have any personal experience with it, but the C-RAM doesn't appear drastically different than how the current AMS functions

Not a bad point at all. AMS could be used to reduce the damage potential, I can support that. So long as like with Missiles it reduces damage not eliminate it.

lockwoodx, on 30 April 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I was actually being super sarcastic but I appreciate you took it seriously. So few developers these days are brave enough to go outside the box. I'd love to see a torpedo like weapon lobbed 10m out, bores into the ground then travels in a straight direction before detonating. It could have rubble, debris, and dust kicking up giving players an indicator of it's trajectory, and those with lower settings would see a nice 2d tile of cracks along the ground akin to mech footprints so they'll still be able to see it move.

Something unique and fun if not a little bit stupid because stupid things get a genuine reaction out of people. When you can pair the two together (stupid and fun) , you've got a genuinely great experience.

Wow... You thought I was serious?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Wow... You thought I was serious?

You have a fist for an avatar. Need I say more?

[Joseph Mallan]

Touche'

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Not a bad point at all. AMS could be used to reduce the damage potential, I can support that. So long as like with Missiles it reduces damage not eliminate it.

How about:

Turn arty into a regular module instead of a consumable. Arty takes a Tag to set, and an arty strike can be set every 20 seconds (doubled because you can set as many arty's as you want, maybe just have a set number of possible drops per match? your batteries run out of ammo?).

You can put in a C-Ram module, that turns your AMS into a counter-artillery but it no longer fires at standard lrms or srms.

Now you have a cost for using an arty in a module & 1ton/1crit/1hardpoint. And the counter has a cost of 1module/1.5tons/2crits/1hardpoint (though less useful hardpoint).

Edited by 3rdworld, 30 April 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TAG was only used with Arrow4(as far as Arty went) but I don't have a complaint of linking it with Arty here at all. Give teh Spotter some XP and assists and it would be even better!

And the C Ram Module is a sweet idea gives a negative and positive to its use.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 April 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

TAG was only used with Arrow4(as far as Arty went) but I don't have a complaint of linking it with Arty here at all. Give teh Spotter some XP and assists and it would be even better!

And the C Ram Module is a sweet idea gives a negative and positive to its use.

Tag is just a convenient way to give it some negative to your mech loadout, and limit its range in one swoop.

[Barantor]

Screech, on 30 April 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Arty/Air still is the easiest damage to avoid in game. You have to be oblivious to your surroundings in order for it to be dangerous. Sure Arty/Air strikes are the second easiest weapon to use in the game but at least you need LoS to pull it off.

I say this about LRMs but we still get complaints about those all the time too.....

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 30 April 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Tag is just a convenient way to give it some negative to your mech loadout, and limit its range in one swoop.

I hadn't thought about the range limit it would apply. Not being able to drop Arty on the enemy right at launch would be a fair proposal I think.
Hearing All systems Nominal

BOOM!


Would be a bummer!

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

I hadn't thought about the range limit it would apply. Not being able to drop Arty on the enemy right at launch would be a fair proposal I think.
Hearing All systems Nominal

BOOM!


Would be a bummer!

Does anyone still remember the good old days when people who dropped on the southwest base in River City complained of being hit with ERPPC or Gauss rounds seconds after the match has started?

[3rdworld]

Mystere, on 30 April 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Does anyone still remember the good old days when people who dropped on the southwest base in River City complained of being hit with ERPPC or Gauss rounds seconds after the match has started?

Good ole fashion Blue warrior, how I miss thee

[Danghen Woolf]

I really like some of the ideas in this thread with the TAG and some of the time changes. I think the Command Console idea is good but I just do not see how having more artillery is going to solve any problems. I have played maybe 3 games with artillery strikes, used it once and hav not used it since, had a couple marked in my area and ran away like a good mechwarrior.

Now for my $.02:

I think that artillery strikes and air strikes should only be able to be called in by the Company Commander. This will maybe encourage leadership roles. The CC should get one each Arty and AS for the match, non-transferable if they are killed before using them and only available if command is chosen before the match begins. (No waiting till the round is half over and taking command to break a turtle match). The CC can assign these out to either Lance Commander or keep them for himself.

Lance Commanders should be able to request Arty or AS via the battle grid and the CC can either accept it and FFE or ignore it. If the LC has been assigned one of the strikes they can FFE immediately.

All Arty or AS should be targetted via the battle grid with poor accuracy, accuracy/grouping could be improved by any unit holding a TAG on the target location with accuracy indicated similar to the missile lock indicator. AS would be more accurate, Arty more saturation using this mechanic.

Consumables would be to change the type of Arty/AS (smoke, HE, Willie-P, etc, could even be selected to drop sensor decoys).

Remove the smoke from the target area, instead have audible alerts for "Incoming artillery detected" or "Aerospace fighter inbound" or something like that.

That is all. GAME ON!

Edited by Danghen Woolf, 30 April 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 30 April 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Does anyone still remember the good old days when people who dropped on the southwest base in River City complained of being hit with ERPPC or Gauss rounds seconds after the match has started?

eah. I also remember when the OOB lines were broke on River City and you could climb up on the hill and snipe anywhere on the map... I really liked that one! I miss it!