39 replies to this topic

[Buckminster]

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

I've lurked here enough to know about the "2ppc/2 ac5" meta people keep talking about. What you described didn't sound very different. However, I don't want to try to maximize pinpoint FLD. My quest for ballistics is a simpler, nobler one. I just want moar dakka. No meta for me, tyvm. I just like the feel of autocannons ( AC/10 especially, love that reload clang).

I know you specifically said "other than the Jager", but really, that is where the quest for dakka should take you. Some build options:

• -DD with 2xAC10 and 4xMG (or use LBXs for more crit fun!)
  
• -DD with 6xMG and twin LPL
  
• -S or -DD with 4xAC5 (slow but stupidly fun)
  
• -A with 2xUAC5 and 4xSSRM (dakka plus a surprise for lights)
  
• -FB with 2xAC5, 2xLL, 2xML (because Rifleman)
  
• -S or -DD with 4+xAC2 (too hot for my taste)
  
• any with 2xAC20 (too cheese for my taste)

Hands down, the Jagers have been my favorite of late. Favorite enough that I bought an -S, even though I already had the -FB, -S and -DD mastered. I just wanted more!

[crossflip]

The jager is perfect for dakka builds, true, but...

I...

Damn, I hate how that thing looks. It brings to mind the image of a dude leaning far backwards at the hip with his arms raised, bobbing as he walks. Derpiest thing ever. That little spoiler thing on top just puts the cherry on the derpcake for me. I've been weak before, I've tested them on the PTS, but every time I come close to buying one I think to myself, "Damn, do I really wanna be driving that thing?" and I just can't do it. Barring assaults, my least favorite mech would be the jager.

To each his own, I guess. I learned of a whole bunch of good builds to try from you all. But the jager... *Shudder*

[Mecheart]

I will second the Dragon 5N. With 2xAC/5 + 1 AC/2 it is quite effective.

[Redshift2k5]

Mecheart, on 30 April 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

I will second the Dragon 5N. With 2xAC/5 + 1 AC/2 it is quite effective.

Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. I wouldn't want to play a mech with all my weapons is one arm, that only workss as long as nobody is focused on you and can read your loadout.

As to the OP, have you looked at the Orions yet? They also have a rather distinct look, more of a "workhorse" design than anything overly stylish or cool. Orions can build around a single core ballistic or a pair of ballistics (variant depending), so you will need lasers, PPCs, or missiles to supplement the mech. They're not really "Ballistic mechs", but they are solid generalists with ballistic hardpoints.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 30 April 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Koniving]

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

To each his own, I guess. I learned of a whole bunch of good builds to try from you all. But the jager... *Shudder*

It (the Jagermech) was made to look like this on legs. Well the 1980s/90s version. Airborne Radar thingy on top, advanced auto-locking targeting system (unlike most mechs), various other things.

Its an anti-air mech whose AC/2s and AC/5s were described as rapid fire fully automatic weapons of lower calibers with the ability to fire them nonstop with 10 SHS while never overheating. But MWO redesigned autocannons and lasers (and SRMs and LRMs and Streaks and...well everything but the PPCs, ER PPCs, Gauss and the MG which just got buffs).

Lore stuff for those interested.

Spoiler

By firing non-stop, etc., I mean the AC/2s were 30mm (MGs are 20 to 25mm) and basically did its rated damage in 10 seconds of constant fire with an excellent targeting system, not 1 shot like we get in MWO. The specific AC/5s used on the Jagermech I haven't found a listing for but they tend to be between 40mm to 120mm in the books. (a 120mm model is specifically stated to require 3 shots to do 5 damage and was slow as heck to shoot and slow to reload).

Of course battletech armor is half of what we have, and the Jagermech's 192 stock armor is actually 96 with more structure health than armor health. It was made of paper, but never, ever got close to the field and well defended by allied units. But that's just lore and source.

(Basically autocannons could do good damage but it took a bit of time and lots of firepower; the Jager depicted on the background to the right of this post for example is ejecting LOTS of shells with its rapid fire AC/2s and AC/5s. They were heavy, DPS-style weapons but great when 90% of mechs used single heatsinks due to their incredibly low heat which was 1 to 7 per 10 seconds, not 1 to 6 heat per shot.)

(Lasers were significantly superior, but a stationary mech firing 9 ML at 3 heat each [MWO has them at 4 heat each] brought you to 90% heat, caused your ammunition to explode, heatsinks to melt, damage to weapons, slowed you down, and sometimes caused you as the pilot to lose consciousness not to mention the mech to have a chance of falling over. Oh and shutdowns randomly occurred between 60 and 100% heat as anything above 60 was highly detrimental to any mech's well being. This is without MWO's ghost heat, too! The wonders of 30 threshold.)

Of course, if it did pick up twin AC/20s which is very unlikely, they would be of the Pontiac 100 style (described as a 100-shot AC/20, dealing 0.2 damage per shot) up to the Crusher (150mm, deals 2 damage per shot) as anything much higher than that might rip its own arms off or cause it to fall over from the recoil.

The CEO of PGI didn't like the "MG" or burst style of ACs in past games since they sounded dinky and weak and wanted tank-sized projectiles with "lots of power."

Just to note: a 40mm weapon in use.

A 120mm weapon in use.
If done right, it'd be big tank-sized projectiles with lots of visual firepower, just less at once and more over time.

Clan UACs will be using a style like this according to Paul; lead designer. So I'm thankful for that.

Edited by Koniving, 30 April 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[crossflip]

That sheds some light. But then again, a flimsy AA platform is a far call from the jager builds seen in mwo, and the chassis was clearly designed to be shooting up and not getting shot up. The exact opposite happens here.

[Buckminster]

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Damn, I hate how that thing looks.

Fair enough. I've certainly avoided mechs for lesser reasons.

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

That sheds some light. But then again, a flimsy AA platform is a far call from the jager builds seen in mwo, and the chassis was clearly designed to be shooting up and not getting shot up. The exact opposite happens here.

Part of it is that I think they blended the design of the Jager with the design of the old Rifleman. It was an old TT design that is technically Unseen, but they seem to have skirted around that by making some subtle changes and calling it the Jagermech.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman

[Bigbacon]

i do the ember with AC/5 + 4ML and have quite a good time with it. Tried AC/2 but it just didn't work as well, specially since they dropped the range on it.

[Alaskan Nobody]

luxebo, on 29 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

with mediums capable of boating multiple ballistics underlined
...........

CN9-A/D/YLW

-A only gets 1B, but otherwise a really nice list.
(and one I am going to have to remember)

[Koniving]

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

That sheds some light. But then again, a flimsy AA platform is a far call from the jager builds seen in mwo, and the chassis was clearly designed to be shooting up and not getting shot up. The exact opposite happens here.

This is because of the universal "create your own mech" max armor rule of Battletech's tabletop. If it's 65 tons, it gets this much armor as its maximum. PGI kept this rule as it skirted and/or dropped others.

Basically, at 192 armor (less than a stock Raven 2X) you wouldn't DARE get close.
But it's max is 422 armor, because that's the max for all 65 ton mechs.

Spoiler

• If the max was more unique per mech...
  
• The Jagermech (65 ton) would have less armor than a Blackjack (45 ton). (BJs have 272 armor).
  
• The Catapult (65 ton) would have exactly the same armor as a Hunchback (50 ton). (320 armor).
  
• And the Thunderbolts (65 ton and 416 to 422) would have more armor than every Victor (80 ton, 400 or less; DS doesn't count; that hero mech's build is not canon), some Cataphracts (70 ton, CTF-3D and 1X, on par with CTF-2X), though less than Orions (75 ton, 462), and nearly rival the average Stalker (85 tons, 432) and a bit more most armored brawling Dragon (60 tons) in existence the 1-C (402).

Then again, Shadowhawks would be made of paper (except the 5M) as they are fast recon units, fire support, and spotters and Wolverines would be the king of all mediums in MWO instead of the Shadowhawk.

Strangely if the weapons worked according to lore, the meta weapons would be missiles (even if they can't shoot nearly as frequently), PPCs, and Gauss Rifles; unless you were poor then ACs all the way. And even the mechs with lower armor would miraculously live longer than they do now at their max armor. Mainly because it'd be nearly impossible to fire everything at the same time and chain fire would be more prevalent.

Unfortunately nothing as far as lore really works here. Been working on an armor concept to help fix that; but doubt PGI will take it. Since every mech gets affected, it'd change some meta and certain best selling mechs would actually get balanced instead of overpowered.

Actually there is one thing lore-friendly. Hunchbacks are made urban environments. Holds true here; they excel there.

Edited by Koniving, 30 April 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[Konril]

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

My quest for ballistics is a simpler, nobler one. I just want moar dakka. No meta for me, tyvm. I just like the feel of autocannons ( AC/10 especially, love that reload clang).

Well, there is a fun thing you could do with an ON1-V or Protector that I can think of. When the hard points are available, there is just enough space to shoehorn an AC/10 and and Ultra AC/5 into a side torso. (Like this ON1-V Dakka build, or a version 2.) You might be able to turn a few heads with the unexpected loadout, and it should be as effective as any of the traditional "meta" builds.

I've done something similar with an Atlas in the past.

[White Bear 84]

Revorn, on 30 April 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

If you want a challenge, try an Cent with a Gauss.

Ah I love the YLW build with AC20, but gauss with its charge up period ugh.. ..the range could be a winner though...

crossflip, on 30 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Damn, I hate how that thing looks. It brings to mind the image of a dude leaning far backwards at the hip with his arms raised, bobbing as he walks. Derpiest thing ever.

To each his own, I guess.

On the subject of Jagers....

Edited by White Bear 84, 30 April 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[luxebo]

Shar Wolf, on 30 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

-A only gets 1B, but otherwise a really nice list.
(and one I am going to have to remember)

Actually, a few of them have 1/2B (can't really boat ACs, but can load one or two stronger ones). Thanks, it took me a bit of time to put that up.

My own AC20 Raven (can be on 4X or Huginn) has an XL 210 and lesser armor, ammo, and no backup weapons. Only 21 shots, but definitely something that can do well when used properly. You can out brawl a Jager with dual AC20s even with it by using right arm as a shield for one AC20 and dodging quickly to spread damage on the next shot. Really good mech, though more support brawler than anything.

[Alaskan Nobody]

luxebo, on 30 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Actually, a few of them have 1/2B (can't really boat ACs, but can load one or two stronger ones). Thanks, it took me a bit of time to put that up.

That was my point actually
The CN9-A gets 1B 2E 3M
The -D and Yenlo get 2B though.

[White Bear 84]

Shar Wolf, on 30 April 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

The -D and Yenlo get 2B though.

You know what is one of the most deadliest combo's on the battlefield... ...a lance of centurions with AC/20's

1) Most standard players tend to avoid them as they are not perceived as much of a threat as say, an AC40 jager.. (although the vets know sure as hell to go straight for the right arm)
2) If they do lose that arm, they are zombie mechs that are tough to boot (provided you do not make the mistake of adding an XL)
3) For mediums, they are just pretty darn difficult to kill!
4) For some reason when you lose the armor on your left arm, mechs seem to think you are easy game... ...quite the opposite.
5) The agility of the cent is just awesome

And I will say no more.... (And this was with just half a lance...)

Edited by White Bear 84, 30 April 2014 - 05:43 PM.

[crossflip]

Currently experimenting with AC5 FS, farming an XL 210. Nothing more fun than a fast AC build.

[AH Warhawk]

On the topic of ballistic mechs one of my favorite builds is what I like to call the "Wombo Combo." If you combine a AC/10 with an AC/2 and strap it in the arm of a centurion. It is easy to score 500-700 damage regularly with this build. I trained my Dad with this build and from three months ago he has gone from striving to reach 100 damage to getting 800 damage+.


For other Great Mech builds and training tips stop on by http://atlashunters.enjin.com/
or send me a message or friend me in on MWO!

I will be glad to share with you what I know!

[Buckminster]

I'm currently playing with a 4xAC5 Jager-S. The thing is slow (245XL) and has the risk of running out of ammo (only 5 tons), but is stupid fun. Chainfire them to just throw constant lead down field, or alpha them for a long range AC/20.

I'm saving up for a different engine so I can try and jam some more ammo on it. Oddly enough it's slow speed hasn't been that big of a liability - just keep the enemy in front and fire away!

[Koniks]

Redshift2k5, on 30 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

As to the OP, have you looked at the Orions yet? They also have a rather distinct look, more of a "workhorse" design than anything overly stylish or cool. Orions can build around a single core ballistic or a pair of ballistics (variant depending), so you will need lasers, PPCs, or missiles to supplement the mech. They're not really "Ballistic mechs", but they are solid generalists with ballistic hardpoints.

Likewise, the TDR-9S and TDR-5S have 2 ballistics in the left arm. The BLR-1D has 3 and the -1G has 2. All of them can go 77-85kph.

Edited by Mizeur, 09 May 2014 - 10:55 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

The new Quickdraw hero can be quite decent with ballistics.