14 replies to this topic

[Garegaupa]

Okay, let me just start off by saying that this is not a big issue as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, being a pilot in real life probably makes me a bit more "touchy" in this regard. What I have in mind is the cockpit design ergonomics of the 'Mechs in MWO - or rather the lack thereof.

If you look at the cockpit of a modern aircraft, there is a logic to everything: The most important information (i.e. flight and navigation data) is put right in front of the pilot to make it as accessible as possible. The same goes for master warning and caution lights, which are also very important. Secondary information (such as engine and systems status) is put a bit to the side, but still very visible. Buttons and switches that you may need to operate in flight are very often located on (or very close to) the control stick/wheel and throttle. Other switches, that you mainly use during start-up and shut-down, are typically located in the roof or on a console below the main informations displays (whether these are screens or gages).

This picture will serve to visualize what I mean:



Now, if you compare this design philosophy to the cockpits on the MWO 'Mechs, the latter seem much more random and haphazardly thrown together: There are screens and switches spread all over on many of them, and there seems to have been no ergonomic considerations made during their design (those poor, poor 'Mech pilots ).

This is definitely not something I would like to see prioritized by PGI, as there are lots of other and more important aspects to be included in the game. However, if a cockpit redesign is ever contemplated, may I humbly suggest that some inspiration is gathered from modern aircraft cockpits to make the 'Mech cockpits seem more realistic and thought through? At least to me, this would increase immersion quite a bit.

(Oh, and PLEASE make the pilot push the throttle FORWARD when increasing speed - moving it backwards like now - at least I've seen this happen on some 'Mechs - seems a bit silly... )

EDIT: I added a poll, as that seems to be more or less the standard for topics in this section. Besides, it would be interesting to see what more people think of my ideas.

Edited by Garegaupa, 01 May 2014 - 12:56 AM.

[FireDog]

PGI hires artist, not engineers... Most of the Art has been great however I do think they should at least give a nod to real science and human ergonomics. One example… Guess what color is the “Engine Fire” light in every warplane in the world? Red… What color is the Master arm switch? Again Red… Red = Bad Times can happen. Yellow lights/switch/toggles are usually keyed to cautions. Abusing one might not kill you outright but it will lead to bad times. PGI has no consistency with control locations or color, especially in the start up sequences animations, arming/sensor buttons, blue one mech, red the next….

Outside of the cockpit some fails occur as well. Take the artist at PGI that gave us the new Catapult Box launchers. What they came up with fails every test of logic, reason and/or practice of engineering. Whoever thought “I think I will hang additional VCR launchers on an already overly large armored box launcher which holds a duel tube SSRM or 20 tube LRM but for some reason it can’t hold two or more launchers! This screams of incompetence or a rush job, or maybe an idiot manager stuck his head in and screwed things up. Sad some of these inconsistencies of weapon sizes greatly impact the gameplay gimping some mechs while other retain their golden hit boxes. Some effort should be giver to standardizing the weapons and at least giving a nod to real world logic and science. Maybe PGI should hire someone to be the equivalent of a mech architect. They blend engineering and art in equal amounts.

Lastly, remember liberal art majors (writers)/artist did most of the cannon stories and art. They really did come up with some foolish mech designs/portraits, PGI ought to take some of them with a grain of salt and tweak accordingly.

Edited by FireDog, 30 April 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[Impyrium]

You make some good points, but I personally don't notice any issues with the designs. In fact, I quite like them, but I guess being an actual pilot would made it more difficult.

Then again, go play MW4, and come back to MWO; you'll praise the day PGI every decided to model cockpits and didn't go for a generic clear first person view.

[FallenFactol]

I would like some more MFD info added in. Like some more detailed information. Even if its fluff would be cool.

[Garegaupa]

FireDog, on 30 April 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

PGI hires artist, not engineers... Most of the Art has been great...

Definitely no disagreement from my side there, I too love the artwork in this game. That's why I started off the original post by saying that I really don't consider this a priority. I don't think they would need engineers for what I suggest, however. The artists just need to be pointed in the right direction by someone who knows a little bit about the subject, maybe browse through a book or web site that deals with the subject of aircraft cockpits and instrumentation, and they would have what they need to make a more "realistic" cockpit design.

FireDog, on 30 April 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

...however I do think they should at least give a nod to real science and human ergonomics. One example… Guess what color is the “Engine Fire” light in every warplane in the world? Red… What color is the Master arm switch? Again Red… Red = Bad Times can happen. Yellow lights/switch/toggles are usually keyed to cautions. Abusing one might not kill you outright but it will lead to bad times.

Definitely, a good point!

Heh... That reminds me of an old quote I found somewhere on the Internet, regarding aircraft and their pilots: "If the switch is red, yellow or dusty, think twice about pulling it!"

FireDog, on 30 April 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

PGI has no consistency with control locations or color, especially in the start up sequences animations, arming/sensor buttons, blue one mech, red the next….

I had actually planned to mention this in my original post, but I forgot.Thanks for reminding me!

The worst example I've seen to date has to be the Banshee, where the pilot wiggles the joystick to to get the weapons online...

FireDog, on 30 April 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Some effort should be giver to standardizing the weapons and at least giving a nod to real world logic and science. Maybe PGI should hire someone to be the equivalent of a mech architect. They blend engineering and art in equal amounts.

Yes, that might be a really good idea!

FireDog, on 30 April 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Lastly, remember liberal art majors (writers)/artist did most of the cannon stories and art. They really did come up with some foolish mech designs/portraits, PGI ought to take some of them with a grain of salt and tweak accordingly.

Agreed.

AUSwarrior24, on 30 April 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

You make some good points, but I personally don't notice any issues with the designs. In fact, I quite like them, but I guess being an actual pilot would made it more difficult.

Yes, one does tend to get touchy when it comes to issues that one knows a bit about. I'm sure that there are plenty of cops out there who cringe and shake their heads when watching certain TV shows about police departments...

AUSwarrior24, on 30 April 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

Then again, go play MW4, and come back to MWO; you'll praise the day PGI every decided to model cockpits and didn't go for a generic clear first person view.

Oh, I'm sure they've done a great job compared to the older MechWarrior games - and I think they've gotten some things spot on, like making the Banshee cockpit look rather old and crude, that being an old 'Mech type. So all of this is minor details, really - I just wanted to bring it up in case a cockpit redesign is ever to be made.

[joe1297]

Would love to be able to use tab button to see who's my enemies while game startup rather than watching hand movements..
sometimes you don't have the chance to read the lobby screen as the count down reached its final seconds..

I was able to use the tab once while teaming up with some friends, but while pug-ing i couldn't do it..
so sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't..

[Tesunie]

I have to say, very nicely worded request, and very reasonable.

However, I must confess, I don't really have an opinion either way... Though I would like for mechs to have a bit more of a standardized control panel setup... (Make them slightly different, but similar. Like how a car control all look basically the same, but there are some minor changes from here or there.)

Overall, most mech cockpits don't appear bad to me. Then again, the most I've had is driving my car for real life consideration. And in the novels, they didn't exactly spend too much time describing the cockpits... so the novels are of moderate usefulness in this department...

[Metafox]

Improving the equipment layout in the cockpit is a nice idea, but we don't directly use the cockpit itself so it's really just for asthetics. As an asthetic element, the functionality of the cockpit layout doesn't really make a difference. It would be nice if the devs could keep your ideas in mind for future cockpit designs, but I'd rather they focus their efforts elsewhere rather than modify the existing cockpits.

[Garegaupa]

Tesunie, on 01 May 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

I have to say, very nicely worded request, and very reasonable.

Thanks!

Tesunie, on 01 May 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

However, I must confess, I don't really have an opinion either way... Though I would like for mechs to have a bit more of a standardized control panel setup... (Make them slightly different, but similar. Like how a car control all look basically the same, but there are some minor changes from here or there.)

Overall, most mech cockpits don't appear bad to me. Then again, the most I've had is driving my car for real life consideration. And in the novels, they didn't exactly spend too much time describing the cockpits... so the novels are of moderate usefulness in this department...

Metafox, on 01 May 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

Improving the equipment layout in the cockpit is a nice idea, but we don't directly use the cockpit itself so it's really just for asthetics. As an asthetic element, the functionality of the cockpit layout doesn't really make a difference. It would be nice if the devs could keep your ideas in mind for future cockpit designs, but I'd rather they focus their efforts elsewhere rather than modify the existing cockpits.

I more or less agree with both of you. This is an aesthetic issue, nothing else. I definitely wouldn't want to see PGI resourced diverted from other and more important areas into this - just posted it as an idea for future development, and if the developers suddenly don't have anything else they need to do (as if).

(And just to clarify my standpoint, I don't think that all the existing cockpits are bad - on the contrary, there are some that I think look really good! On the whole I think they could do with a bit of standardization, though, and at least a little bit of thought put into functionality and ergonomic issues.)

[CDLord HHGD]

Pretty fancy cockpit there! I always look at mechs through a 1970's Cold War filter... Gimme one of those cockpits as an example, they heck yes. As it is, sure, I like that too.

[Garegaupa]

cdlord, on 02 May 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Pretty fancy cockpit there! I always look at mechs through a 1970's Cold War filter... Gimme one of those cockpits as an example, they heck yes. As it is, sure, I like that too.

Something more along these lines?



(That's from an F111 aircraft.)

Edited by Garegaupa, 03 May 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Garegaupa]

Okay, I'm really not a fan of bumping my own threads like this - I just wanted to to check whether the low response here is due to lack of interest in this particular subject, or if my thread just got pushed to page 2+ so quickly that people didn't see it.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference the Mech actual controls:

Most of the normal things that happen in and by the Mech are controlled by the Direct interface unit, and fully automatic. The items that the pilot can actually over-ride are not that many, mostly to do with making the Mech operate outside of it's normal operating perimeters. The Di computer is programmed to always obey the pilot, even if this means damaging itself in the process. It will announce a warning to the pilot that 'an event' is about to happen, but will still follow his instructions.

So, items and intelligence that the Mech gathers are transmitted or displayed to the Pilot for reference. Information overload is rather intense during operations, so all systems are mostly automated. The controls that the Pilot can select are for pre-emptive use or emergency operation. Say transferring some ammo before it's actually required, or selecting different sensor suites.
- I'm sure there must be a 'dump ammo' selection within these controls, if one of the main weapons is destroyed, as carrying around explosive ammo without it's weapon could be somewhat hazardous. So the option should be there for the Pilot.

The monitors an controls that are distributed around the Mech's cockpit are for:
1. Weapons status,
2. Heat Threshold,
3. Actuators Function,
4. Ammunition Location Status,
5. Sensors Function,
6. Mission Kills,
7. Systems overall,
8. Ammunition Transfer,
9. Heatsinks Status.

There are also communications and command components for selected events the Pilot may want to respond to. And most of the displays can be toggled to different uses similar to how todays aircraft manage there multi systems. The security system is also included in this group of controls. These Items also have internal Mech sensors and controls, but normally nothing is required by the Pilot during normal operation. Since the Mech does not operate by voice control, (shame about that) there are all the Maintenance controls in clear view, things that the Pilot would normally never use, but absolutely required by the Mech's crew chief and technicians.

Just info,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 08 May 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd like to have some mechs like the Commando get a slight redesign of the Cockpit and exterior face in the future. The MWO sensor on the right side is interesting, but I'd rather have that tweaked some to either a full visor for the cockpit or the cockpit reflect the extra sensor in the Commando's head.

MWO Sensor

Spoiler

Commando Cockpit

Spoiler

Full Visor

Spoiler

Another centered cockpit visor

Spoiler

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 08 May 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Garegaupa]

9erRed and Praetor Shepard: Thank you for your insights and suggestions! It's interesting to hear the different takes and perspectives that people have on this!