20 replies to this topic

[Malorish]

Ok, it's time to get over this hump because I want to grind a couple of lights.

I don't understand MGs in MWO. Here are my problems:

1. I can't seem to hit anything reliably. I've heard that i should ignore the tracers and just make sure my targeting reticle is over the enemy mech, regardless of the distance (up to max distance) rather than leading the target. What should I be doing?

2. On my heavier mechs, I avoid MGs like the plague because it's the only weapon that makes me get tunnel vision. I stop torso twisting, looking at my minimap, looking around at other mechs, I tend to expose myself to enemy fire by overextending, etc. I've tried all kinds of things to stop doing that, but so far the only thing that works is taking the dang MGs off the mech!! How do you approach using MGs when you're in heavier mechs vs. in light mechs?

Thanks in advance.

[LauLiao]

Can't help you as I think I've only ever used MGs a handful of times. I know having fought AGAINST plenty of MGs I can tell you they hold no real intimidation for me. For the most part I ignore machine gun fire unless I've got a couple of sections stripped of armor.

[Wildstreak]

Well, on #1 I can say the best way to target with MGs:
- You want to find enemies with no armor, exposed internals. That is due to crit chances with MGs. This will only happen as allies damage enemies.
- If none of the above, then you do strafing runs. Plan the run before doing it. Max speed at your target, short burst of fire, run away for cover. You could even run through a few enemies burst firing at each when you can.

I have driven the Locust-1V doing this with ML & 4MG, also ERLL & 2MG though the latter has some limited long range sniping too. You can look for similar loadouts on other Lights with Ballistic points.

- you run short range weapons + MGs for the methods described above.
- you run a long range weapon, usually long range LL or PPC (never a LRM) and MGs. Can do above plus sniping.

As to heavier Mechs, I have no idea what tactics are involved, I have seen people do it but never myself.

[wanderer]

Pretty simple. MG's are for when a 'Mech has no armor. They hitscan- just keep the crosshairs on the target and they'll blast what's under them, but do minimal armor damage and scatter while firing. I don't even worry too much about aiming them at a speedier target- just let them hose it down while it's in reach.

[101011]

Basically, if you are in a heavier 'Mech (DD does this best), boat up and never stop firing once you are within 250 meters, while using heavier weapons to actually do damage. The MG's do great job at scaring newer people, and, if you are good with your fire placement, can very quickly neutralize deadly weaponry, especially from the rear.

[Modo44]

Crucially, MGs are backup weapons. You need to have other equipment to strip armor effectively. You can obviously swipe them across lights passing close-by or when something hugs you, but do not go chasing things to MG right off the bat. Wait until you see messed up targets with open locations -- that is when MGs become great at providing quick kills.

Edited by Modo44, 03 May 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Ninthshadow]

If I can give my advice from limited experience with them:

- They aren't like conventional ballistic weapons. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression they follow the mechanics of beam weapons like the medium laser. At those short ranges, I think it's a semantic point. Ignore the tracers, just fire on the exposed portions directly.

- Burst fire. They seem to have a strange mechanic where if you hold it down it eventually seems to start spreading all over the Mech after a delay. If you are circling a target or otherwise managing to duck and weave finding a moment to take your finger off the trigger will prevent the bullets from 'spraying'. Key point to know when to stop is when their entire front torso ragdoll is flashing, like they are being hit in all three bodyparts. It may not be easy to tell in the heat of a brawl, but if you're the only one shooting its really obvious. Try holding the button down in the testing grounds to see what I mean by this point.

- It's rolling a dice. The damage isn't the killer, the crits are. The best case scenario is ammo or the engine. Get the crits off on those, and it's a kill. As long as those parts are open, the internal health doesn't matter too much to someone with machineguns. This is because crits are a random chance. Sometimes, you'll spray four MGs for what feels like days just to blow off an arm, others you'll tap a CT and they'll pop.

Edited by Ninthshadow, 03 May 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Bhelogan]

I treat my MGs almost like TAG on LRM boats. I carry enough ammo that once I start engaging, I just never stop firing them, until you break off the engagement. If you get 4 of them, they actually can do a decent job of stripping armor. Don't believe me? Try it out in a trial drop. Get behind the Atlas there and see how long it takes 4 MGs to destroy the CT from the rear. It's kinda like spray and pray. Its a no heat way to boost your DPS. You really need some other weapons to do the main damage though, either SSRMS to tear up everything, or some other Laser or Ballistic for pin point damage.

I don't use them much on larger mechs though. Jag DD with 2x AC10 and 4MGs and 2x ML is a fun build, or on my BLR I will run an XL400 with 4xLL and MGs. Other than that, ballistic slots are generally better for ACs on the heavier chassis.

Edited by Bhelogan, 03 May 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[crossflip]

MGs are hitscan. You're right to ignore the tracers. They're like salt in an open wound, you have to peel the armor with something else before you shred what's left.
As a light, tunnel vision is less of a problem because of your mobility. You want to hunt down the wounded and harvest components. Focus on unarmored parts and keep circling and juking.
As a heavy, you don't want MGs unless you're stacking them up like crazy. With enough of them you become the battlemech equivalent of a chainsaw. You can't torso twist much while using them, so positioning and target selection are important. You'll want situations where there's more of your guys than theirs, and in those situations you end up being the guy who burns through the exposed components and snags all the kills. On that note,



Hilarious and educational Watch it if you haven't already.

[Koniving]

Malorish, on 03 May 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Ok, it's time to get over this hump because I want to grind a couple of lights.

I don't understand MGs in MWO. Here are my problems:

1. I can't seem to hit anything reliably. I've heard that i should ignore the tracers and just make sure my targeting reticle is over the enemy mech, regardless of the distance (up to max distance) rather than leading the target. What should I be doing?

2. On my heavier mechs, I avoid MGs like the plague because it's the only weapon that makes me get tunnel vision. I stop torso twisting, looking at my minimap, looking around at other mechs, I tend to expose myself to enemy fire by overextending, etc. I've tried all kinds of things to stop doing that, but so far the only thing that works is taking the dang MGs off the mech!! How do you approach using MGs when you're in heavier mechs vs. in light mechs?

Thanks in advance.

As someone who uses them pretty often, here's a couple of very simple tips.

This was my 4 MG, 2 MPL Cataphract 4X before pulse lasers were buffed (the first time).



Tip 1) They ARE NOT ballistic weapons. They are glorified, heatless lasers (as far as scripts and hit detection are concerned). Treat them as such. Treat them exactly like lasers. Shoot AT the target. Do not lead the target. The particle effect and "bullets" mean nothing, this is for all intents and purposes a LASER.

Tip 2) Don't waste them, it is possible to run out. Let go whenever not pointed at the enemy if you can think of it. That happened in this fight, which left me feeling rather worthless with twin MPL.
Terra Therma, Firestarter (Ember). 4 MG, 2 MPL. I had one leg, CT dark red, all screwed up and outta ammo. We spent most of our time fighting lights and mediums.


That led me to replacing 1 MPL (2 tons) with 2 SL (1 ton) and 1 more ton of MG ammo to get this. Stood toe to toe against an AC/40 Jager during it, alone. Quite proud of it. Lost my left side though (yay standard engine lights!)


Now, for a heavier mech... here's what I do.

Back up the MGs with bigger weapons and hammer ANYWAY!

[Barkem Squirrel]

I run MG's in assaults, heavies, mediums, and lights.

The MG's are an unnerving weapon system. Especially for someone that has no armor in one or more areas. This is where the MG's shine. Also Lights do have a fear of them for some funny reason. There is a cone of fire where the rounds will hit. Any damaged areas are in danger of being critted due to the increased crit and damage ability of the MG's. I think it is 6% for one, 3% for two and 1% for 3 crits. The damage is 0.9, 1.8 and 2.7 for the same percentages. Odds are every two seconds you will get an extra crit and damage.

I have had mechs run from me just because I have MG's that are firing and they have a crit. Now the lights it is interesting. I only have the Locust 1V and Raven 4X for lights with MG's. Shoot at the legs and try to crit the ammo. This is the fastest way to get a kill some times. In the raven I will have 2 MPL's SRM 6 and two MG's. How long do you think it takes to leg an Jagermech? Not long, especially if you are firing from behind. Even if ammo does not go off, he is legged and an easy target for later.

Then the fire starters and spiders. If they come in latter (spider) then the weak areas of your mech are gone. Now the firestarters can have enough MLs to open you up and MG you to death.

Depending on the light chassis, you either wait for a bit for mechs to be opened up then attack. The other option is to identify a mech that is off on it's own and go after it and open it up yourself.

Work with a medium streak mech also. He can protect you from lights and open up a mech for you.


MG's seem to put down a damage mech faster than lasers.


One word of warning, it is easy to team kill some one with MG's. Especially if they run in front of you for that last kill of the match. I had that happen a few times with MG's.

[danneskold]

I dont have a lot to add, but to help with the tunnel vision effect, tie them in for close range with other weapons, esp in a light, like a spl or ML, that way, you forcus on the laser, and not the tracers

[Dawnstealer]

Okay - short answers:

They're real short-range weapons - if you're farther than 10-30m, you're probably just annoying your target.

Don't lead - MGs hit exactly where the crosshairs are. They're like really weak lasers that way.

Outside of damaged parts, MGs won't really chew up an enemy, but if they have an exposed part? THAT'S what you aim for - MGs will blow through internals faster than anything else.

[Danghen Woolf]

As an LCT pilot I run a medium laser and four machine guns. What tends to happen is that mechwarriors will react to the damage indicator and not the actual damage being done, this is espacially helpful with the large assault mechs that cannot turn around quickly, a good light and even some medium pilots should be able to regulate speed enough to stay in the rear cone of the enemy. The sounds of several machine guns rattling off armor panels seems to panic rookie mechwarriors and can even distract veteran warriors who favor little to no rear armor.

Running machine guns on heavier mechs can be useful when heat levels are high and an enemy has already been damaged by primary weapons. A single machine gun can sometimes be just enough to trigger an ammunition explosion but current battlefield protocol allows for very little chance of that as most ammunition is stored inert. Several dozen low caliber rounds impacting the area however can create an increased possibility as the propellants from damaged rounds leak into the damaged area. As the machine gun dissapates its own heat, this barrage of fire can even deter enemies close to overheating from continuing the engagement while they cool down.

The relatively short range and speed of the rounds allows for very good accuracy from the weapons. Combined with an agile mech this allows the pilot to target areas of the enemy that have already been seriously damaged. The best advice for using machine guns is practice as much as possible, and do not let the high ammunition count fool you, it is very easy to run out.

Good luck.

[Tesunie]

There is really only one way to use MGs well in MWO, and that is to target exposed armor sections on enemy mechs to cause additional damage.

However, there are several means to go about this and to plan for it...

I present as an example, my Raven 4X. I have designed it with MGs as an actual weapon. Here, I have planed my mech to be a carrion. The concept is to help my team and create open armor holes with my LRMs for my opening game. I need to be patent with this mech and stay within the team. Once it starts to hit mid/end game, I start to crank the mech up some. If I start to see nearby enemies with sections with no amror, I aim my lasers and MGs into those sections for as long as I can before I need to duck and hide. The intent, take a section. This is a part of my mech's planed "meta", as I am to help my team by cleaning up as much as contributing damage through LRMs. It doesn't have much LRM ammo, but it's enough to delay my entrance. (Otherwise, I charge in too soon, my MGs become very ineffective, and I die very fast.)

Another use on heavier mechs is as a "backup crit seeker". For only a couple of tons, you can boost your mechs damage potential against close targets, especially if you have other weapons to pierce their armor. I use it on my Thunderbolt 5S. The intent is not to shoot with the MGs in mind, but for my other weapons. So, while my med lasers are beaming duration into the target, I hold the fire button for the MG to join in. If I am hitting internals, it could be the needed boost in damage to take the side. If I am facing an already beat up foe, I might even stare them down with this mech to try and kill them faster.

MGs are very situational. They are great for internal damage and little else. They are more of an end game weapon. When I take them, I try to fight as though I don't even have them for the most part, but I will try to hold my targets in my sights with the fire button still pressed down if I can. Very rarely will I stare a target down with MGs, and that's normally when they have a CT that is almost destroyed and I have the armor to take a few hits. A little damage can be worth the destruction of an enemy mech, especially if it is a mech bigger than myself.

[Takashi Uchida]

I recently bought a couple Cicadas. The 3M of course, as well as the 3C.

The 3C has four balllistic slots and one energy slot. I've been running it with 4 Machine Guns and either a Large Pulse Laser or an ER Large Laser.

What's embarassing is that I want to make the 3M great; it's the freakin ECM poster boy of the variants. However, numbers wise so far, I'm doing much better with the 3C!

3M stats: 21 games, 10/11 (W/L), 21/13 (K/D), 340 damage per game
3C stats: 7 games, 6/1 (W/L), 11/3 (K/D), 291 damage per game

The 3C is with no Endo/FF and no double heat sinks! Of course, there are too few games played here to really mean anything statistically, but I really have been on a tear-up recently with machine guns.

With the 3C, I'm relatively lightly armed and the machine guns don't do diddly against an freshly armored target. It's best to conserve your ammo unless you want to give an enemy in range a quick love-tap as "assist insurance." In such a low-firepower, lightly armored mech, I wouldn't recommend firing the MGs for the sake of firing them. Essentially, my playstyle with this mech is to remain on the edges of the battle, take shots with the lasers if I can, and when I see an exposed internal, I make a run for it and give 'em the good ol circle strafe (usually not a good idea to charge head first, guns blazing). You'll also want to avoid stopping in front of an enemy to finish them off with your MGs.

The Cicada is technically a medium but it's barely one so you may want to apply similar tactics if you are grinding lights.If you're running an Ember or Firestarter-H, you should can definitely be more aggressive as you'll have a group of medium or small pulse lasers to skirmish with. Don't be discouraged by low damage, as that's not what MGs are for. Their purpose is to cripple and kill mechs with exposed internals. In a smaller mech with lots of MGs, I usually wouldn't bother firing them early on or even take the risk of engaging a well armed target up close that has all yellow or orange armor.

Here's a good game I had. A close one too, so it wasn't just me gunning down enemies in a stomp. 3 kills, 8 assists, 444 damage. Actually ended up making over 200k cbills! That's the most I've made without some kind of bonus. Somehow got 19 spotting assists (with no UAV).

Spoiler

[Pyrrho]

Takashi Uchida, on 06 May 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I recently bought a couple Cicadas. The 3M of course, as well as the 3C.

The 3C has four balllistic slots and one energy slot. I've been running it with 4 Machine Guns and either a Large Pulse Laser or an ER Large Laser.

I enjoy the ER-PPC in the energy hardpoint. It is precise, a wallop, and I can start the process of opening up the armor on anything I see (Advanced Zoom can be nice too) before I close in to BnZ with the MGs. My arms are shields, my legs are swift, and in-between the up close peppering of my quad MGs, that ER-PPC is knocking socks off.

[Buckminster]

My .02:

• MGs need to be used in groups. 2 is minimum, but three or four are better.
  
• Don't even bother using them until the fight is on - they will *never* be any good against armor.
  
• Generally one ton of ammo per two MGs is all you need

On light mechs, I found that they work best as you vulture in on injured mechs. Find someone that is engaged in a brawl, make sure they aren't focused on you, and zip in and let the MGs rip.

On heavy mechs, I find that I also get the tunnel vision when brawling. It isn't generally a big deal, as those crits start coming in and your enemy starts to fall apart. My favorite heavy MG mech is the Jager-DD, with twin LBXs and quad MGs. It's a crit monster, the LBXs do a solid job of stripping armor, and then the LBXs and MGs tear up the soft tender insides. It's a beautiful thing.

Edited by Buckminster, 06 May 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Malorish, on 03 May 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Ok, it's time to get over this hump because I want to grind a couple of lights.

I don't understand MGs in MWO. Here are my problems:

1. I can't seem to hit anything reliably. I've heard that i should ignore the tracers and just make sure my targeting reticle is over the enemy mech, regardless of the distance (up to max distance) rather than leading the target. What should I be doing?

2. On my heavier mechs, I avoid MGs like the plague because it's the only weapon that makes me get tunnel vision. I stop torso twisting, looking at my minimap, looking around at other mechs, I tend to expose myself to enemy fire by overextending, etc. I've tried all kinds of things to stop doing that, but so far the only thing that works is taking the dang MGs off the mech!! How do you approach using MGs when you're in heavier mechs vs. in light mechs?

Thanks in advance.

Well answers:

1. Correct just make sure your crosshair is over the enemy mech because it actually does damage based on the same mechanics of the laser (so no leading required like other weapons). MGs are effective 180 m and less, but it can do damage farther but just not as effective.

2. Verses light mechs actually give the light mech your front, not your sides or your back (so torso twisting can hurt you because it helps allow a light mech to get behind you easier when you do torso twist.

Last thing is MGs are really only effective in 4 or more. The MGs are also only useful in shooting parts that have already opened up (as in no armour). Why? Well it is to max their crit damage ability (considering they don't do anything else other then that.

[Takashi Uchida]

Pyrrho, on 06 May 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

I enjoy the ER-PPC in the energy hardpoint. It is precise, a wallop, and I can start the process of opening up the armor on anything I see (Advanced Zoom can be nice too) before I close in to BnZ with the MGs. My arms are shields, my legs are swift, and in-between the up close peppering of my quad MGs, that ER-PPC is knocking socks off.

heh, only reason I haven't tried that yet is because I'm still running single heatsinks LOL