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#1421 ShinVector

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 05:58 PM

View PostHeffay, on 25 January 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:


It's a video game. And mouse/keyboard are the keystone input methods of games.


I rather quote your post... Posted Image

And I realise there is nothing to discuss in the topic so, let side track a bit on the topic of joystick.

Believe CIG is still building that customer Star Citizen Joystick setup with Saitek. (Seems to indicate quite a bit of commitment to joystick.)

Joystick vs. Mouse/Keyboard will come under balancing. I agree with the above posts that game balancing should be done at BETA.

They can always do the quick and easy and nerf bat the hell out of M&K... A river of tears of course will come from people who refuse play the game with a joystick for what ever reason... *flame war... flame war never changes. Posted Image

Edited by ShinVector, 25 January 2016 - 05:59 PM.


#1422 Red Shrike

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 03:18 AM

View PostShinVector, on 25 January 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

They can always do the quick and easy and nerf bat the hell out of M&K... A river of tears of course will come from people who refuse play the game with a joystick for what ever reason...

It's not that I don't want to, it's just that joysticks are expensive and I don't have the disposable income for them.

That being said, I dislike the mouse aim* -ish KB&M setup. I'm all about relative control.

*With mouse aim, I mean that the nose of your craft always points towards where your mouse is, essentially making everything a point&click adventure.

#1423 ShinVector

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 04:22 AM

View PostRed Shrike, on 26 January 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

It's not that I don't want to, it's just that joysticks are expensive and I don't have the disposable income for them.


An understandable statement. That is why M&K control since wing commander... Though back then.... There was no mouse.. Just Keyboard ! LOL...

#1424 Mister Blastman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 09:15 PM

View PostShinVector, on 26 January 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:


An understandable statement. That is why M&K control since wing commander... Though back then.... There was no mouse.. Just Keyboard ! LOL...


Please. A gravis joystick was what, 25 bucks back in 1991? I went through two playing Wing Commander...

I still have one I use on my P-200 to play through Wing Commander 3 sometimes.

#1425 ShinVector

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:41 PM

View PostMister Blastman, on 27 January 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:


Please. A gravis joystick was what, 25 bucks back in 1991? I went through two playing Wing Commander...

I still have one I use on my P-200 to play through Wing Commander 3 sometimes.


Kinda late... But Hmmm.. Soo.. Internets says $25 was worth about $45 in todays value...

Sorry.... But not all school kids were as privileged at the time... Posted Image

Anyway... This bug.. Think MWO still has this one... Just we don't see it so, much since the combat is slower.


Edited by ShinVector, 12 March 2016 - 09:42 PM.


#1426 Mister Blastman

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 10:38 PM

View PostShinVector, on 12 March 2016 - 09:41 PM, said:


Kinda late... But Hmmm.. Soo.. Internets says $25 was worth about $45 in todays value...

Sorry.... But not all school kids were as privileged at the time... Posted Image

Anyway... This bug.. Think MWO still has this one... Just we don't see it so, much since the combat is slower.




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#1427 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 05:10 PM

A Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick can cost $30 or less (don't get a used or refurbished one). Gaming mice typically cost a tad more.

#1428 Heffay

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:45 AM

So yesterday in the ATV, Chris Roberts apparently said Star Citizen will be released as a Minimum Viable Project (MVP).

Now this doesn't bother me, since I know how things work in the real world. But it does make me giggle with glee at all the people who compared and contrasted MWO's release as an MVP.

Ah, fun times were had back then. Turns out people who used MVP as an insult were only displaying their ignorance!

#1429 Lily from animove

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

View PostHeffay, on 25 January 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:


It's a video game. And mouse/keyboard are the keystone input methods of games.


this, as long as a game has soem shooter at in it, M+KB >anything.

it also will probably counter the HOTAS and flight control experience because getting otut of your ship and stuff would constantly mena to swap contols on your desk between M+KB and stick/hotas/whatever. May be annoying for those with non Keyboard flight control.

#1430 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:19 PM

View PostHeffay, on 21 April 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

So yesterday in the ATV, Chris Roberts apparently said Star Citizen will be released as a Minimum Viable Project (MVP).

Now this doesn't bother me, since I know how things work in the real world. But it does make me giggle with glee at all the people who compared and contrasted MWO's release as an MVP.

Ah, fun times were had back then. Turns out people who used MVP as an insult were only displaying their ignorance!

To be fair, PGI never told anybody what "we'd" be getting and it turns out their MVP was much less than many of "us" felt responsible. Based on what has been presented thus far, and considering "normal" game development, what CR stated is within the limits for the industry (and unheard of, when was the last time EA or Bungie said we're going to release next week what we thiunk is an MVP".)

The issue is how many features, which constitute an industry MVP release, will CIG's SC have upon release. If 2.0 is any indication of what progress CIG have made relative to ver 1.3 (whit was quite significant) 2.4 is indicated to represent a similar jump in the game's development. I still think that MWO is in Beta 0 where's CW, etc. New mechs? Got em, eh!

This is what CR stated:

So, really what we’re doing with Star Citizen is we’re working on the game, adding features for an incredibly ambitious design – I don’t think there is any other game that is trying to do as much as we’re trying to do. So, degree of difficulty 11, not 10. And, we’ll have what we determine is a minimum viable product feature list for what you would call Star Citizen the commercial release which is basically when you say, “Okay, we’ve gotten to this point and we’ve still got plans to add a lot more cool stuff and more content and more functionality and more features…” – Which by the way includes some of the later stretch goals we have because not all of that is going to be for ‘absolutely right here’ on the commercial release. But we’ll have something that we’ll think, ‘Okay yeah, not everyone can play it but it doesn’t matter – you can load it up, it plays really well, it’s really stable, there’s lots of content, there’s lots of fun things to do, different professions, lots of places to go, we’ve got a really good ecosystem.’ So, when we get to that point that’s when we would say, “Now it’s not alpha, it’s not beta, it’s Star Citizen 1.0.”

#1431 Heffay

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 08:41 AM

View PostGremlich Johns, on 30 April 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

The issue is how many features, which constitute an industry MVP release, will CIG's SC have upon release. If 2.0 is any indication of what progress CIG have made relative to ver 1.3 (whit was quite significant) 2.4 is indicated to represent a similar jump in the game's development.


The "release" of Star Citizen is going to mimic the release of MWO. Once people realize that MVP for SC is only going to include a fraction of the stuff laid out during the kickstarter (for example, mod support isn't going to be ready for YEARS), they are going to flip out, and you're going to have all kinds of #SaveSC and UniteAndDrop movements starting. "CIG LIED, STAR CITIZEN DIED!" It's pretty damn predictable at this point, because people are pretty damn stupid.

So yeah... MVP is MVP. Viable. The outrage that is going to fall when SC is released is going to sound really REALLY familiar to the people around here.

#1432 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 05:22 PM

View PostHeffay, on 01 May 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:


The "release" of Star Citizen is going to mimic the release of MWO. Once people realize that MVP for SC is only going to include a fraction of the stuff laid out during the kickstarter (for example, mod support isn't going to be ready for YEARS), they are going to flip out, and you're going to have all kinds of #SaveSC and UniteAndDrop movements starting. "CIG LIED, STAR CITIZEN DIED!" It's pretty damn predictable at this point, because people are pretty damn stupid.

So yeah... MVP is MVP. Viable. The outrage that is going to fall when SC is released is going to sound really REALLY familiar to the people around here.

At this point, all we can do is speculate - none of us has any real idea of their development pace. To that, I'd say that your speculation is as good as the next guy who thinks they will release many of their kickstarter/subsequent stretch goals. And until CIG says, "sorry, we overloaded our *** and won't be including xyz at release" the outrage is just going to be impatient emotion. It would be interesting to see what stretchgoal items people would place on their reasonable/rational "necessary at release" list. I just went through their stretch goals and there is only one item out of the whole batch indicated to be in the game "at release". We know that they are satisfying the first one below. So, CIG still gets to make the list of what they will include in the MVP making it difficult to have legitimate gripes. I know that there will be those who will whine, gnash teeth and rend their clothes regardless of what CIG does.

$3,000,000
- Increased community updates at the RSI website.
- Squadron 42 will feature 35 missions.
- Citizens with appropriate packages will receive access to the Star Citizen universe with 40 star systems for persistent online play upon release.

#1433 FuDawg

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 12:17 AM

View PostLagfest, on 30 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Well to be fair, Chris and his team have been in the gaming industry for a looooong time, PGI is a newcomer.
So the hate directed at them is a little much.

now I'm not saying I dislike either, as I have also thrown money at both, but we had hopes just as high during pre beta in MWO too.

I think people get all angsty for no reason. just play the game and have fun.

And I don't fear the Idris, I got something just for you! #bombers

It's not hate, it's derision. Even a monkey can learn to wipe it's *** within 5 years... yet PGI can't manage to get this came even close to right?

#1434 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 05:31 PM

View PostFuDawg, on 12 May 2016 - 12:17 AM, said:

It's not hate, it's derision. Even a monkey can learn to wipe it's *** within 5 years... yet PGI can't manage to get this game even close to right?

Derek Smart hasn't learned to wipe his yet.

#1435 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 07:37 AM

What people need to get through their heads - in both player bases - is that MVP isn't a stopping point. It's a milestone. It's a preview version of the game that you release to the public so you can start making money off it while you develop it further. That's exactly what MWO has done, and it's what CIG is doing.

The downside to an MVP is that you bring the public into the game extremely early, long before most games get released, while all the design changes and process hitches that normally take place behind closed development doors are still happening. So instead of having their minds elsewhere and being blissfully ignorant of the process, the players endure every torturous snag without any understanding of the process.

#1436 Heffay

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 08:59 AM

View PostRebas Kradd, on 01 June 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

MVP


As a general rule, people who complain about "MVP" are demonstrating their lack of knowledge of software development far more than providing useful insight about a video game.

It's really a great idiot test to help identify people who don't know ****. :)

#1437 _Comrade_

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 02:56 PM

Star Citizen....FAILED!!!

LA district attorneys office orders the company to refund 3000 dollars cause it's in development forever with nothing to show

and people think MWO is in bad shape?

http://kotaku.com/re...dium=Socialflow

Edited by Grimwill, 15 July 2016 - 02:58 PM.


#1438 _Comrade_

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 03:00 PM

I smell a class action lawsuit coming for cloud imperium

#1439 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 06:51 PM

View PostGrimwill, on 15 July 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Star Citizen....FAILED!!!

LA district attorneys office orders the company to refund 3000 dollars cause it's in development forever with nothing to show

and people think MWO is in bad shape?

http://kotaku.com/re...dium=Socialflow

seriously?

If so...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

#1440 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 04:28 AM

View PostGrimwill, on 15 July 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Star Citizen....FAILED!!!

LA district attorneys office orders the company to refund 3000 dollars cause it's in development forever with nothing to show

and people think MWO is in bad shape?

http://kotaku.com/re...dium=Socialflow


Kotaku is wrong regarding this situation. As usual, they didn't do a thorough study of the matter - Just as some of you have not.

The LA district court did NOT tell CIG that they had to pay the refund. They told CIG that legally, CIG was within their rights to ignore the request for refund - which is also what Paypal told CIG They did recommend that CIG deal with the matter in the best way possible. You can read some of Streetroller's (the refundee) adventure at the derek smart subreddit at these links.

https://www.reddit.c...s_that_this_is/
https://www.reddit.c...le_smart_speak/





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