1443 replies to this topic

[Archon Adam Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 09 July 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Here's the difference. SC doesn't do early releases or anything 'extra' for cash only. Cash buys you in game currency. That's it.

Right off the bat, you're incorrect; cash buys you the game, and depending on how much you have put into it, a very different starting experience... and wait until it goes live (or near it). Don't think for a second they won't start throwing traditional F2P items into a cash shop.

[R Razor]

Forum Whiners' said:

Oh noes, a beta game isn't delivering, let me go spend money on a game that hasn't even made it to beta yet, that'll show'em.

It's been said many many times, instead of whining offer something constructive.
Don't get ******** when your suggestion isn't used.
Stop playing the game if you don't like it.

I think there are likely more of us that are here for the long haul and have enough computational power between our ears to know that given time, this game will be fixed and it will be the best mech simulation game out there.

Once SC has a beta wherein I can see the game and try it out myself I may invest, until then I'll just sit back and hope it turns out as good as you rose colored glass wearing folks seem to think it will.

[MustrumRidcully]

Rhent, on 09 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I've been buying a fair bit of their DLC, but I'm done until Seismic and Convergence is fixed. Till then, they can suck on their Halo robot game sim and die.



The ego is very strong at Piranha Games. Do not expect anyone to backtrack on some of their game decision.

They did backtrack Repair & Rearm, though. What lead to that? Maybe we need to give them more credit? I don't know. ECM is the terrible counter-example. And it's not like they ever listened (or "reacted to") to the concerns about convergence or the heat system that started early in Closed Beta. What was so special about R&R that they decided to kill that, but are unwilling to change the implementation of, say ECM? Did it hur the bottom line (did the game even have a bottom line back then?)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 09 July 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[Reggimus]

Arrachtas, on 09 July 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

If you guys don't think that when Alpha/Beta SC comes out that there weren't be hordes - hordes - of complaint threads, you're crazy and/or blinded by {Noble MechWarrior} fascination; and this is coming from a Wing Commander nut and fellow buy-in. Again, look at history, look at what hype is and how often reality fails to meet it. If you guys really want to set yourselves up to be disappointed, that's fine.

I’m surprised it took 4 pages for this to be mentioned, as it is rather true. The Nerdrage will be colossal considering the amounts of cash that people are investing in a not yet playable game.


MW:O was in closed beta invite only when founders came out, so there was something to show for the cash, however buggy it was. I initially became a founder at release just to get access, do i reget it.. nope.


_{yes i will prob get the 300i cash-up-front for SC. But just cause its space-fighter stuff, and i like blowing poop up.}

Edited by Reggimus, 09 July 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[DLFReporter]

Reggimus, on 09 July 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

I’m surprised it took 4 pages for this to be mentioned, as it is rather true. The Nerdrage will be colossal considering the amounts of cash that people are investing in a not yet playable game.
_....

This times a million.
It's incredible how many "Whales" are out there.

[Adridos]

Chavette, on 09 July 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

It wouldn't take near as much money or time to make a WC4 today(with HD graphics).

Tools get better with time too.

You can make a much bigger and complex game with the 6 years and crazy amount of mills it took to bring out freelancer with things like off the shelf engines, and sopisticated version and pipeline control, dev tools, etc. avalible today.

Tools get better and more expensive, too.

I have given you figures of games from relative antiquity. Want to see the figures for a decent game today? Let's just say CryEngine 3 license itself eats up 30% of all the title's revenue alone. Oh... a few steps closer to the average indie title budget without doing anything and promising one of the most daring games yet.

[Thorn Hallis]

I don't care which comes first, I'm going to play both anyways.

But my money is MWO-exclusive.

[MischiefSC]

Arrachtas, on 09 July 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Right off the bat, you're incorrect; cash buys you the game, and depending on how much you have put into it, a very different starting experience... and wait until it goes live (or near it). Don't think for a second they won't start throwing traditional F2P items into a cash shop.

Correction. Cash up front buys you the complete game, which you play however you want. Single player, private server co-op, or in an MMO-style developer run persistent universe. Only in the last option do you even need to worry about spending money for anything else.

Which, again, is a big part of the difference. SC is NOT a F2P model of game. MWO is. Also I absolutely do not think there will be traditional F2P style items in a cash shop in SC, given that avoiding that is specifically why SC has the funding model it does - it's a traditional purchase style of game. You buy it, you own it. The ability to spend real money for in game currency is used to fund the PU, the persistent universe they are talking about running. The game itself is funded via game sales like any other game. The 'cash shop' where you can buy currency (and only currency) is just for funding the 'Persistent Universe'.

As to concerns about its creation.... well, aside from Chris Roberts reputation he's hired some very competent people for the project as well. Paul Reindell from the Cryengine team, Rob Irving from Wing Commander: Prophecy fame. He also was a big part of Ultima Online. You can scroll down the list of people working on SC and see a lot of familiar names (if you pay attention to who works on what anyway). All people who could certainly be working on something else if they thought SC wasn't going to pan out.

The people working on SC have a long history of exceptional games. I would however be the first to say that if you've got doubts about something keep your wallet closed. We're not talking about financial investments, we're talking about computer games. Comparing the pricing model though between a F2P MP-only game vs a pay-to-own game with singleplayer, private servers and a persistent MMO environment though isn't very fair.

[Trev Firestorm]

xengk, on 09 July 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Im going to wait and see on SC.
I got burn out by Black Prophecy and Star Conflict, so Im not ready for another space sim shooter.

I hear ya, was practically going insane in anticipation of Black Prophecy and had my hopes shattered, for now its the game I can play and enjoy as working close to what I expected (even if it needs major work still) over the game that might be amazing maybe when it does come out (also a bit sick of alpha/beta testing for a while).

[xengk]

Trev Firestorm, on 10 July 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

I hear ya, was practically going insane in anticipation of Black Prophecy and had my hopes shattered, for now its the game I can play and enjoy as working close to what I expected (even if it needs major work still) over the game that might be amazing maybe when it does come out (also a bit sick of alpha/beta testing for a while).

Im on the same boat as you.
Was really excited about BP when I first heard about it, and followed the development quite closely.
When the game finally release it just wasn't what it crack up to be, maybe it was overhyped, maybe the gameplay just isn't suited to me but I stuck around for a few months before leaving.
Only just recently I just found out from a friend that the game has close down.

MWO is still my primary MMOG right now, with a few webgame on the side.

[Farix]

MischiefSC, on 09 July 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Here's the difference. SC doesn't do early releases or anything 'extra' for cash only. Cash buys you in game currency. That's it.

Also it has single player, supports modding, etc. You buy the game and you own it. Do with it what you will.

MWO, conversely, makes money by selling things you can't get any other way. If you want them you pay extra. The Phoenix Package for example. Want the Battlemaster? Wait an extra 4 months or buy the Locust, Shadowhawk and Thunderbolt too.

Can I wait 4 months? Sure. The difference is that SC doesn't require that.

If you honestly believe that SC will never do similar things to monetize on their game, then you are a complete fool.

[ssm]

Hammerfinn, on 09 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Come 2015, your list of "sad parts" will likely be applicable to SC as well. Just sayin. Devs start with big ideas, then reality steps in and bitchslaps them, then people get mad.

Yup, I think it's unavoidable. Roberts is as good a spacesim developer as PGI devs are battletech fans - but sometimes vision just won't sync up with reality. For me, the greatest threat for SC is lack of financial and legal backing of some kind of major investor/publisher.
It looks good on paper, but when major lawsuit occurs...

Edited by ssm, 10 July 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[Blue Hymn]

Look, can we all just agree to something here? PGI needs assistance with MWO, that much is certain. There is still a lot of bugs, overall mech balance and gameplay issues that needs to be refined and smoothed out, but other than that the game is still running, and they're now in a difficult phase of making things work to satisfy the gaming community's expectation. Despite delays and whatnot, can we agree that MWO is still progressing in a proper direction? The slope-hill patch for example is a nice, pleasant start.

Now, Star Citizen sounds like an awesome idea, and I sincerely hope it succeeds too. But instead of comparing MWO to Star Citizen and throw banters at each other on immigrating to one game or why one is destined to fail, I would like to believe that Star Citizen would be a healthy competition to PGI and motivate them to further their efforts in making MWO into a great game.

Cause that is all what boils down into, right? A game that people can enjoy and rally behind. I don't mind about the slip-ups or the delays -- as long as they can work in the right direction and make the game good, that's all that matters for me. Of course, proper communication between developer and community would be nice and all, but let's at least have faith in those who share the ideals of the Mechwarrior Universe.

Because I am pretty sure that the developers too share the same ideals as us.

[Egomane]

Closed as duplicate of http://mwomercs.com/...s-star-citizen/

[Farix]

Blue Hymn, you have to realize hat the whole point of the OP's post was to slam PGI and MWO. So nothing good was ever going to come out of this topic. The irony that they are buying into the highly idealized promises of Star Citizen while at the same time excoriating PGI for not living up to some if its highly idealized promises is completely lost on them. Star Citizen may actually be in a worse position that MWO because the expectations for that game are so much higher than they were for MWO.

Edited by Farix, 10 July 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[Kissamies]

Eh. I've spent equal amount of money on both and will probably play both equally. Tbh, I was more interested in single player aspects of SC. I haven't even been following the hype. We'll see what it delivers when it's out.

[SmoothCriminal]

Kissamies, on 10 July 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Eh. I've spent equal amount of money on both and will probably play both equally. Tbh, I was more interested in single player aspects of SC. I haven't even been following the hype. We'll see what it delivers when it's out.

Well said. I'm considering pledging some money to SC because it's been so long since we've had a persistent space sim, and I would love to see that game succeed.

But the same can be said for a mecwarrior game....

[BlackWidow]

KuruptU4Fun, on 09 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Black can you put some realism into your post. PGI made several threads about how things they wanted in the game would turn out. Sometimes what you want simply can't be built, I'm sure Chris Roberts has grand plans for SC, but over time will have to make some compromises because things simply aren't possible. Peter Molyneux certainly did and put his foot in his mouth for making promises his company couldn't deliver on with ever version of Fable Lionhead Studios made.

We've bought packages that will give us access to the Alpha builds, and yet no release day for that has been given.

Optimism is a wonderful thing, but temper it with some reality Black, that way you don't get assumptions and disappointments from them.

Oh, almost certainly. If fact, I'd be a fool to not be curious as to what game I am gushing over next year when SC fails to live up to my expectations.

But here are some of the keys differences.

1. SC has made almost 5 times in crowd funding what MW did in their founders push. Different revenue models, I'll grant you, but they did that with barely over 200,000 users.
2. They are at least PLANNING on having player driven economy, PVE, and MMO/RPG elements. MW:O is....yeah, sounds great. Maybe. Someday. If we have time and money would *could* look at that.
3. Peter M hasn't made a game worth playing since he left Bullfrog. I've been playing PC games for 30 years and have followed the industry the entire time. That guy is the BIGGEST blowhard in the gaming industry. I doubt he will ever release anything of significance ever again.

[BlackWidow]

3rdworld, on 09 July 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

green grass and all that kinda stuff.

Hey 3rd!! Miss seeing you in game all the time. Anyhow, I understand we get that "grass is always greener..." perspective about games all the time. But, PGI never promised us green-grass in the beginning. Just dirt. Great dirt! For big stompy robots, but just dirt.

Almost EVERY SINGLE person of worth in these forums has said FROM THE VERY BEGINNING....we don't just want CoD with robots. We want Mechwarrior 5 with PVP end game or even better, Mechwarrior 5 with and MMO / RPG at the end.

Bascially exactly (read: EXACTLY!!) what Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will be offering.

[KingCobra]

To the OP I agree about your MWO statements SC I don't know might be a fine game we will see but your a little late on the scoop I and others were on the forums 2 years ago telling PGI the same things I think I still have a few topics on MWO as a MMORPG. But PGI did not listen and took the crappy game model from games like Star Conflict and WOT.PGI devs don't give a rats assss about any posts or topics on these forums and for dammmm Shure they don't care about there community and what makes them happy and want to spend more money. BT/MechWarrior had all the right content to make one fibulas MMORPG Aero fighters-Mechs, Characters-worlds-Storyline-etc.In fact they had plenty of money to do it.Mechwarrior4 and all the expansions cost less than a million to make and PGI is telling us this crap online game cost 5 million? I will leave it at Good luck to you and your crew im also the last of almost 200-300 players and friends that started 2 1/2 years ago.

Edited by KingCobra, 10 July 2013 - 06:20 AM.