64 replies to this topic

[Atheris]

Hmm what I also find interesting is the W/L ratio per game mode, for instance I have a ratio of 1.6 in Conquest, 1.2 in Assault but only 0.43 in Skirmish... (spread over 22 Assault, 13 Conquest and 10 Skirmish matches, I always select all three modes when looking for games)

Edited by Atheris, 06 May 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

Trevor Belmont, on 06 May 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

?

[Trevor Belmont]

Flaming oblivion, on 06 May 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

?

Typically in my experience, the higher the KD ratio the better the W/L ratio is.

[Joseph Mallan]

Trevor Belmont, on 06 May 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Typically in my experience, the higher the KD ratio the better the W/L ratio is.

Until recently that was true for me as well. But since the wipe... My KDR has dropped and my W/L has gone up! Its fricking weird!

[Flaming oblivion]

I tried a different tact , decided to kamikaze into a ac40 jagger and all his buddies all guns blazing , fortunately my team followed me, I mean I died in a minute flat lol I got focus fired into the next world , But I did 400 damage in that engagement and got a kill and my team finished the rest of them off and went on to win , I feel in most cases though with most PuGs that would of ended disastrously. But it was new.

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

Flaming oblivion, on 06 May 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

I tag when I have to I rarely hit under 200 damage up to 800 depending on the team , If the opponents have 2+ ecm I write the game off as a loss till they fix it . If my team loses 4 people before most of the teams even positioned I consider its a loss. A missile boat that walks out to tag against any smart team that's sticking together is a dead missile boat more so if they have more then one ecm, BEcause by the time you can lock never mind fire you've took massive damage . ECM is overpowered I will not accept any argument on this point and my builds fine . ble 1s 3 ml tag , 2 lrm 15 , 2 lrm 10 , BAP , arty , xl300 , max armour , ammo , dhs endo

And that's why you lose because you give up before the battle begins.

Trick to MWO is to never give up. Even if you're the last person on your team and the other team has 6 members.

Who knows...maybe you'll stage a massive comeback?

[Bobzilla]

My W/L and K/D are about the same for all my mechs, with my W/L being slightly higher in all cases.
Cept for my 3L who's W/L is 6 times higher than my K/D. 3 vs 0.5.

I'm guessing that even tho you are killing and doing damage, you are also not presenting yourself as a target enough. Think of your team as one mech that has 12 areas. If the damage isn't being spread amongst those areas, then certain areas are being knocked out faster and whatever weapons and equipment is in that area, are no longer contributing to the fight. Think of presenting yourself to the enemy to take some damage (not running out and dying) as twisting in your mech.

[PhoenixFire55]

I'll just tell you this ...

Provided you play solo all the time ...

If your K/D is better than your W/L you are doing good and visa versa.
IMHO, if:
(K/D)/(W/L) > 2.0 - awesome player
> 1.5 - good player
> 1.0 - average player
> 0.5 - poor player
< 0.5 - baddie bad bad

Now the impact of being grouped up is tricky. You do get more kills just because you are organized, but you also win more games. On the other hand, you get less kills because people in your group get more.

However, all this is really meaningless.

Lets say you run a Commando with TAG and NARC, you help your teammates by keeping locks for missiles and stuff, they get all the kills and wreck enemy teams. You on the other hand hardly ever get kills (just because you don't have any weapons), die frequently beacuse you have to be exposed to use TAG and have to get close to NARC, can't defend yourself against other lights (again, no weapons). This will lead to a very high W/L (because your team wrecks opposition) but very low K/D (because of the above). However, this doesn't mean you are doing bad.

Another example. Lets say you run a brawler Atlas (smth basic like 2LBX10s, 3SRM6s). What you do is that you tank for your team, soak up the damage and hurt enemy brawlers. You are very useful and doing good, charging the enemy at the right time and so on. However, its obvious that you can't get many kills doing this (unlike sniper builds who tend to finish off mechs damaged by same brawlers), mostly 1, maybe 2, sometimes 3, sometimes none. And you almost certainly die every match. K/D isn't that great, but W/L is. But this again doesn't mean you are doing bad.

So, if you only play solo, I'd say the only thing that matters is how far your W/L is from 1.0.
Again, IMO:
W/L > 2.0 - awesome
> 1.5 - good
~ 1.0 - average
> 0.5 - poor
< 0.5 - yeah, you guessed it

If however you play grouped up a lot, those criteria go up rather fast. For a person who playes in a meta 4-man all the time, I'd say anything with W/L < 5.0 is crap. W/L = 10.0 is solid, etc.

As for K/D ... it means nothing. Only thing that it reflects by itself is how adept you are at dealing final blows. Even average exp/c-bills per game is better for judging your skills.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Quote

Ok so I've found my spot which is a assault missile platform it seems to be where I perform best for now , But I appear to be doing something wrong......

My stats aren't great but judging by the fact I have only played a moth I don't see them as terrible.

So my blr-1 as it currently stands statistically

149 matches played
68 wins 78 losses-0.87
111 kills 101 deaths - 1.10
damage done - 41,084

I've definitely improved my performance compared to how I was doing with my orion , But still i'm finding my w/l and k/d telling two different stories, I always try to do the best I can to contribute as much as I can without putting my self in a position where I die in a blaze of epic failure. Don't know what else I can do.

Honestly, while w/l is important, you can't focus on that. One thing to take into account is if you are dropping solo or with groups. If you are dropping solo, you have to simply accept a lower WLR. In a game with 12 players on a team, having comms (even with just a 2-4 man group) is a massive advantage that the average PUG can't overcome.

More important statistics are k/d and damage taken/damage dealt (which they don't track as of now.) However, you are playing missile support, so don't expect a high KDR. As fire support, you're projecting damage at range and providing covering fire, allowing the frontliners to get in for the kill-blows.

Quote

w/l is completely out of your hands.

That's crap. Even if you're dropping solo, you are at the LEAST 1/12th the equation. Good pilots are much more. Knowing where to be, being precise with your fire, staying alive longer all contribute to your battle's outcome, and your personal WLR.

Saying it is completely out of your hands is a cheap way of trying to excuse poor performance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Franklen Avignon, on 06 May 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

That's crap. Even if you're dropping solo, you are at the LEAST 1/12th the equation. Good pilots are much more. Knowing where to be, being precise with your fire, staying alive longer all contribute to your battle's outcome, and your personal WLR.

Saying it is completely out of your hands is a cheap way of trying to excuse poor performance.

Yeah... I Know, that 8% can be such a big impact... or not.

[Ronan]

I got 2 cents to add

For me I find that it depends on the mech AND the role.

LRM mechs probably should not get kills. Spread damage, etc. Great for stripping armor, let the brawlers close and get kills. My Cat and KGB (both LRMs with 2 ml backup) actually have > 1 KDR since stat wipe, but its a fluke -- they were WLR > 1 and KDR < 1 before the wipe. But both had LOTS of assists! I think this is how it should be.

My puny TDK is KDR < 1, but WLR is near 4. Four ML could allow for kill steals, but for me often doesn't. It is just a Good Luck Mech and my team wins when I drop with it.

And I've got brawler mechs, with KDR of about 2 or 3, and WLR of about a perfect 1. (I'm not overly good.) Close in, after the long range mechs have been weakening the enemy, and shoot for the red-armor spots.

Except for my Blackjack. Pre-stat-wipe it was good at the "hit the red section" game. After the wipe, KDR is about 0.3. Ugh. Can't figure out how my play changed so sharply on the stat wipe.

But other posters were right. If you are having fun, the stats mean nothing. I use them to see if my skills are trending up or down, but the exact numbers can be so far off for no good reason there is no point to worrying about them.

[Bulletsponge0]

Flaming oblivion, on 06 May 2014 - 02:46 AM, said:

Nope I just understand with a crutch that extreme unless they make mistakes or there really bad its unwinnable, I rarely lose when my side gets a 4 lead early on , And I never lose when my side gets 2+ ecm . And I find it as frustrating when I get the mass ecm on my side because I know ecm played the largest part in the win , because its broke. And honestly even 1 ecm is a game changer , ECM has the most impact of any piece of equipment in a game by a colossal amount assuming your team knows how to use it, I just hope its fixed soon

just like LRMs aren't OP, ECM isn't OP...it's SUPPOSE to counter LRMs...and there are counters to ecm...another ecm on counter, uavs, tag, bap....just cause you can't get an instant lock and fire from behind cover doesn't mean ecm is OP

[Joseph Mallan]

Bulletsponge0, on 06 May 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

just like LRMs aren't OP, ECM isn't OP...it's SUPPOSE to counter LRMs...and there are counters to ecm...another ecm on counter, uavs, tag, bap....just cause you can't get an instant lock and fire from behind cover doesn't mean ecm is OP

However MW:O ECM is OP for the CBT Universe, Guardian ECM does more than its larger more expensive Brother, Angel ECM.

[Screech]

I think they are showing the same thing. Your KDR is not high enough to guarantee a positive W/L ratio. I would imagine you need about 1.5-1.75 if you expect to have a positive W/L. You can get it at lower scores, you can't expect it as it will be more based on luck of the MM then anything else.

This from a PUG perspective.

[Flagrant]

Puggin only.  My current stats are 1.19 win loss and a dismal 0.8 kd ratio.  Attribute the low kd ratio to levelling up three wolverines thru basic and taking two of them past elite.  I been keeping stats on most my mechs that have over 20 games since the recent wipe.  Since the wipe my kd has sank from a 1.2 to a 0.8.
Some strange stats:
- my best mode is conquest at a wl ratio of1.36 (all modes are above 1 wl).  Makes sense since I mainly play faster shorter range mechs.
- most maps are above 1 wl bit just barely.  The freak is frozen city night with a 3.4 wl.
- I would rank my brawling mechs for wl, kd, and damage per game.  Currently my AWS 9M is top mainly because of its 306 dam per game. The week before it was my TDK at top and before him was my HBK 4 SP.
- I dabble with longer range and it shows how easy it is compared to brawling.  My DRG 1C with 2erll and a gauss is top damager (377 per game), 1.3 wl, and 1.23 kd.

Edited by Flagrant, 06 May 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Lynx7725, on 06 May 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

WLR and KDR should tell different stories. WLR effectively highlights how well you integrate into teams, while KDR is more dependent on your build and playstyle.

Just out of curiosity, my Orion-V's WLR is 1.23, while my KDR in the same is 2.17, with 197 matches played since the stats reset. What does that mean to you guys?

No takers?

I'm just really curious how you guys would interpret the stats.

[Eddrick]

The OP stats shows an average of about 275 damage a match. Seems to get more kills then there should be for that avarage damage. Possible kill stealer.

[Screech]

Eddrick, on 06 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Possible kill stealer.

No such animal.

[Bilbo]

Screech, on 06 May 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think they are showing the same thing. Your KDR is not high enough to guarantee a positive W/L ratio. I would imagine you need about 1.5-1.75 if you expect to have a positive W/L. You can get it at lower scores, you can't expect it as it will be more based on luck of the MM then anything else.

This from a PUG perspective.

A KDR above 1 is not at all necessary for a positive W/L. This is also from a PUG perspective.

[aniviron]

PhoenixFire55, on 06 May 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

I'll just tell you this ...

Provided you play solo all the time ...

If your K/D is better than your W/L you are doing good and visa versa.
IMHO, if:
(K/D)/(W/L) > 2.0 - awesome player
> 1.5 - good player
> 1.0 - average player
> 0.5 - poor player
< 0.5 - baddie bad bad

Now the impact of being grouped up is tricky. You do get more kills just because you are organized, but you also win more games. On the other hand, you get less kills because people in your group get more.

However, all this is really meaningless.

Lets say you run a Commando with TAG and NARC, you help your teammates by keeping locks for missiles and stuff, they get all the kills and wreck enemy teams. You on the other hand hardly ever get kills (just because you don't have any weapons), die frequently beacuse you have to be exposed to use TAG and have to get close to NARC, can't defend yourself against other lights (again, no weapons). This will lead to a very high W/L (because your team wrecks opposition) but very low K/D (because of the above). However, this doesn't mean you are doing bad.

Another example. Lets say you run a brawler Atlas (smth basic like 2LBX10s, 3SRM6s). What you do is that you tank for your team, soak up the damage and hurt enemy brawlers. You are very useful and doing good, charging the enemy at the right time and so on. However, its obvious that you can't get many kills doing this (unlike sniper builds who tend to finish off mechs damaged by same brawlers), mostly 1, maybe 2, sometimes 3, sometimes none. And you almost certainly die every match. K/D isn't that great, but W/L is. But this again doesn't mean you are doing bad.

So, if you only play solo, I'd say the only thing that matters is how far your W/L is from 1.0.
Again, IMO:
W/L > 2.0 - awesome
> 1.5 - good
~ 1.0 - average
> 0.5 - poor
< 0.5 - yeah, you guessed it

If however you play grouped up a lot, those criteria go up rather fast. For a person who playes in a meta 4-man all the time, I'd say anything with W/L < 5.0 is crap. W/L = 10.0 is solid, etc.

As for K/D ... it means nothing. Only thing that it reflects by itself is how adept you are at dealing final blows. Even average exp/c-bills per game is better for judging your skills.

I will say that K/D is a very misleading stat. Very few of my mechs have under a 2 K/D, and my average K/D is 2.16 in almost exclusively solo drops. With that said, I don't think of myself as a particularly great player; maybe a bit above average at best. The thing is, if you kill one mech when you lose and then die, but kill one mech when you win and survive the match, and you're breaking even with wins and losses, that makes you about normal. While I'm aware of the fact that the average K/D is 1 because with the rare exception of suicides, one player dies for every one kill, being able to take one person down in a 12-1 roll doesn't help your team much, it's still a huge loss.