90 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

OK, looking at the clan mechs and hearing some of the few dev posts that I have seen I have a concern for the Light Clan Mechs

To my understanding you will not be able to switch out the Engines that are default. Meaning The Adder (Just using this one as an example) will be stuck with an XL 210 with a top speed of 97 KPH.

I play a jenner and as a light speed is life, and I seriously laugh at any light mech that goes less than 140 KPH to me they are dead in the water, and 6 ML Jenner or Ember or really any other fast light will destroy it in no time.

So with that being said if that mech is stuck with a 210 XL how is it going to survive? Is there something that I do not know about ie more armor points or something. I seriously do not see how the Adder and Kit Fox will at all be able to stand toe to toe with any IS mech.

With that being posted it is a concern of if the devs have posted on this topic or something has been explained I would like to be pointed in that direction. I love my lights but I do not see how this is going to be feasible for those mechs I really do not. Even with the reduced weight in weapons I just do not see it happening.

Just curious is all.

Discussion, comments?

Edited by Egomane, 06 May 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[FupDup]

To make matters worse, the Ryoken literally has the same top speed as the Puma and Uller. But with more armor and pod space.

[Thanatos676]

I think the Kit Fox might be a hard mech to make work, but a good light pilot, who understands his mechs limits and all that, could make the Adder a workable sniper/direct fire light mech.

[Lostdragon]

This has been discussed a good bit previously and most light players are pretty concerned about it. You also cannot redistribute armor on clan mechs as far as I know. I'm hoping PGI has some kind of plan to make them competitive, but if you are interested in playing light mechs primarily I'd hold off on buying any of the clan packs until we see how they actually perform.

[DONTOR]

If I see a light that goes less than 171 I laugh.

FupDup, on 06 May 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

To make matters worse, the Ryoken literally has the same top speed as the Puma and Uller. But with more armor and pod space.

I have a feeling this is going to be the go to Clan scout mech for a while.

[Darian DelFord]

DONTOR, on 06 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

If I see a light that goes less than 171 I laugh.


I have a feeling this is going to be the go to Clan scout mech for a while.

Damned Locust Pilot ;pp

Yeah from a light perspective I just can not see how they are going to be able to compete. Their sheer firepower will not overcome the speed of an IS mech I do not think.

[Mcgral18]

Lostdragon, on 06 May 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

This has been discussed a good bit previously and most light players are pretty concerned about it. You also cannot redistribute armor on clan mechs as far as I know. I'm hoping PGI has some kind of plan to make them competitive, but if you are interested in playing light mechs primarily I'd hold off on buying any of the clan packs until we see how they actually perform.

They've stated you can indeed redistribute the armor, so we can frontload to our hearts content. Adding new armor, I'm not too sure.


Well, the adder will be able to 2 shot a jenners CT (if it isn't completely frontloaded) so...overwhelming firepower might be enough to make up for being slow. They'll be played more like slow meds than IS lights.

We'll see how it turns out. They'll run hot though, we know that.

[EyeOne]

I think they will have to offer some altered variants with faster engines to give players some options. They might work if played like mediums. But, they need to go at least 130kph or IS lights need to be reined in a little (you know people will like that).

I expect that the "No changing the engines" rule to be removed or relaxed at some point.

[Carrioncrows]

Clan lights are about one thing and one thing only.

Firepower.

If you are a jenner and you run into a clan light you are going to die hard unless you use that superior speed to keep your distance and stay the hell out of SRM range.

Considering clan lights will be able to pack anywhere from 3-5 Streak SRM6's. (Yes Streak SRM6's)

Not to mention a Kitfox with a UAC20.

These lights are not your typical "Point cappers"

They are pint sized medium mechs.

[FupDup]

EyeOne, on 06 May 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

I think they will have to offer some altered variants with faster engines to give players some options. They might work if played like mediums. But, they need to go at least 130kph or IS lights need to be reined in a little (you know people will like that).

I expect that the "No changing the engines" rule to be removed or relaxed at some point.

Omnimech variants all built from a base configuration, and one part of that base config is the engine. Unless piggy decides to relax that TT rule, all variants of a given Omnimech will have the same top speed by definition.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Lostdragon, on 06 May 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

This has been discussed a good bit previously and most light players are pretty concerned about it. You also cannot redistribute armor on clan mechs as far as I know. I'm hoping PGI has some kind of plan to make them competitive, but if you are interested in playing light mechs primarily I'd hold off on buying any of the clan packs until we see how they actually perform.

You can redistribute armor and add or subtract, it was in one of the vlogs.

The Adder and Kit Fox are not going to play like your standard IS light. They're going to fill a fire support role. You'll take pot shots with your oversized weapons and dart around the feet of much larger friendlies adding to their fire power.

Most of the IS support mechs are mediums and heavies for the Clans light mechs will be able to take on this role as well.

Considering the overall speed of the announced clan mechs I predict a fast moving and highly aggressive deathball. And if the Clan ER PPCs do 15 damage you'll be adding plenty of firepower in your Adder.

In terms of fending off IS lights, both the Adder and Kit Fox can strap on one or two streak 6 launchers.

I think there are more traditional lights available to the Clans but i'm not too familiar with them.

Edited by Rouken, 06 May 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[EyeOne]

FupDup, on 06 May 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Omnimech variants all built from a base configuration, and one part of that base config is the engine. Unless piggy decides to relax that TT rule, all variants of a given Omnimech will have the same top speed by definition.

I understand the rules have they have stated them. What I'm saying is that they may alter a base config for each light with a larger engine.

[DONTOR]

Darian DelFord, on 06 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Damned Locust Pilot ;pp

Yeah from a light perspective I just can not see how they are going to be able to compete. Their sheer firepower will not overcome the speed of an IS mech I do not think.

Locust? No, they cant actually achieve 171 KPH there is only one mech that can, and its the Commando!

[Darian DelFord]

Well as a jenner I can dance around a slower mech without a problem and stay out of his LOS for shots. Now unless they have a huge torso twsit their fire power does not make up for their lack of speed. An atlas will 2 shot any light that runs slower than 120 KPH they do it now. Hell any heavy or Assault will be able to do that. I am seriously trying to work this out in my head. Even the slow as AC 20 raven I laugh at, it does not scare me. Right now the only light mech that I say Oh **** and run the other way is the Streak Oxide for obvious reasons.

[Gigastrike]

Speed is life only when you're acting independently and far from the main group, as many lights do when scouting. Speed is useful here less because it allows you to dodge shots (you can thank small hitboxes for that just as much), but more because it allows you to retreat back to the main group for support. As such, the real loss here by moving at only 100 kph is lack of scouting ability

Durability itself isn't lost nearly as much as you would think for a few reasons:

• You still have small hitboxes and can roll damage well.
  
• Clan XL engines require both side torsos to be destroyed, requiring more damage to be done.
  
• Due to the Clan light mechs' focus on heavier weapons, you will be fighting at a longer range, which puts you at less risk.

So while not being able to move as fast will limit how quickly a Clan light mech could report on enemy locations, and a lesser distance they can safely be from the main force will make it riskier to operate independently for fear of being swarmed, they won't actually be less durable in a fight. It just takes a paradigm shift.

Clan light mechs will typically play much the same way mediums do: bolstering the main force where it needs it, or harassing the enemy force from the flank at range. And while scouting is still something that can be done, lights will have to pair up for safety, and rely on their vastly superior weaponry to turn away enemy lights.

[Darian DelFord]

Gigastrike, on 06 May 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Speed is life only when you're acting independently and far from the main group, as many lights do when scouting. Speed is useful here less because it allows you to dodge shots (you can thank small hitboxes for that just as much), but more because it allows you to retreat back to the main group for support. As such, the real loss here by moving at only 100 kph is lack of scouting ability

Durability itself isn't lost nearly as much as you would think for a few reasons:

• You still have small hitboxes and can roll damage well.
  
• Clan XL engines require both side torsos to be destroyed, requiring more damage to be done.
  
• Due to the Clan light mechs' focus on heavier weapons, you will be fighting at a longer range, which puts you at less risk.

So while not being able to move as fast will limit how quickly a Clan light mech could report on enemy locations, and a lesser distance they can safely be from the main force will make it riskier to operate independently for fear of being swarmed, they won't actually be less durable in a fight. It just takes a paradigm shift.


Clan light mechs will typically play much the same way mediums do: bolstering the main force where it needs it, or harassing the enemy force from the flank at range. And while scouting is still something that can be done, lights will have to pair up for safety, and rely on their vastly superior weaponry to turn away enemy lights.

Well the problem with 1 and 2 is I can not tell you the last time I aimed above the waist on a light mech, legs only for me. 4 alpha's on the legs and bye bye.

I can see them being a fire support role, but I do not know with our current maps and meta of snipers and pop tarts. The maps will not change and I am sure there may be a small shift in tactics and meta once the clans are released. But the moment one pops its head over a ridge its gonna be 1 shotted by a 2 PPC 2 AC 5 Highlander.

[Gigastrike]

Darian DelFord, on 06 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Well the problem with 1 and 2 is I can not tell you the last time I aimed above the waist on a light mech, legs only for me. 4 alpha's on the legs and bye bye.

I can see them being a fire support role, but I do not know with our current maps and meta of snipers and pop tarts. The maps will not change and I am sure there may be a small shift in tactics and meta once the clans are released. But the moment one pops its head over a ridge its gonna be 1 shotted by a 2 PPC 2 AC 5 Highlander.

Well the problem with your first point is that you're assuming that the Adder is gonna try to run around you and shoot you in the back at super close range with its ER PPCs the same way a Jenner would with its medium lasers.

The problem with your second point is that a small silhouette will make them very difficult to hit at long range unless you're standing in the same spot a lot. A good fire-support pilot always shifts locations, especially ones piloting fast mechs. I would know, I've been playing a 100 kph dual ER PPC Jenner to test it. The mech plays ok as long as you know what you're doing, and the Adder is only going to perform better in every way.

Edited by Gigastrike, 06 May 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

I run my firestarters with an AC5 and six mediums that goes 97 KPH. I easily pull 600-700 dmg a match.

So having the clan equivalent with light ballistic options is oooo.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Carrioncrows, on 06 May 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

I run my firestarters with an AC5 and six mediums that goes 97 KPH. I easily pull 600-700 dmg a match.

So having the clan equivalent with light ballistic options is oooo.

Also considering the rise in popularity of lights with ER LLs I'm not too worried about these lights having a place.

[Carrioncrows]

Rouken, on 06 May 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Also considering the rise in popularity of lights with ER LLs I'm not too worried about these lights having a place.

Shucks, ER larges? With the clans it's the ER mediums you will have to worry about.