67 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

ShinVector, on 08 May 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Pending reveal whether engine size can be adjusted...
Current thought is all clan lights mechs are inferior to IS lights.

Who cares about those XL engines when the most reliable way to kill light mechs in this game is to de-leg them anyway ?

some say you won't even have to with clan lights

Carrioncrows, on 08 May 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

As long as I get a version with jumpjets and looks like this:

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 08 May 2014 - 06:26 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

More like the firepower of a medium.
Not really. Ullers only get 16 tons of pod space. A Dragon with 7.5 tons armor/FF/ES/360XL has 23 tons left.

You guys pilot dragons with XLs? No wonder you gave up on them LOL

[Khobai]

Quote

You guys pilot dragons with XLs? No wonder you gave up on them LOL

You have to use an XL in a Dragon. Its the only way you can go fast in it and still have decent weapons. And if youre not going fast in a Dragon youre doing it wrong.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

You have to use an XL in a Dragon. Its the only way you can go fast in it and still have decent weapons. And if youre not going fast in a Dragon youre doing it wrong.

Yep I'm totally "doing it wrong" with just an Ultra AC/5, 2MGs, and 2LPLs going a whopping 68.7kph. Just don't call him fat HE'S BIG BONED FOR A DRAGON!!!!!

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Kit Fox has 4 tons of armor. Max is 210 armor points for a 30 ton mech. So -1.5 tons for max FF armor (forgot clan FF was x1.2 more armor per ton). You basically get 14.5 pod space if you go with max armor.

I used the value of +1 ton of armor because going to 5.5 tons leaves you with 0.03 tons wasted. Basically, it would be like any IS mech that didn't use all of its tonnage due to armor rounding. Or at least, this is what I'm getting in SSW. Maybe in-game it would be different.

lockwoodx, on 08 May 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

...going a whopping 68.7kph....

At that point you'd probably want an assault mech.

Edited by FupDup, 08 May 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yep I'm totally "doing it wrong" with just an Ultra AC/5, 2MGs, and 2LPLs going a whopping 68.7kph. Just don't call him fat HE'S BIG BONED FOR A DRAGON!!!!!

You realize a Jagermech does that same exact build better right?

If youre going to play a Dragon, you should at least play to its strengths, not play a build thatd youd be better off using a different mech for anyway. Dragons work best as fast flanking snipers... ERLL and Gauss are good choices for Dragons.

Quote

I used the value of +1 ton of armor because going to 5.5 tons leaves you with 0.03 tons wasted. Basically, it would be like any IS mech that didn't use all of its tonnage. Or at least, this is what I'm getting in SSW. Maybe in-game it would be different.

Yeah the point is the Uller doesnt have the firepower of a heavy. That myth has been disproven. The Uller is hardly going to be the tiny terror everyone claims. Especially if it doesnt get access to its C variant (which I suspect it wont).

Edited by Khobai, 08 May 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

You realize a Jagermech does that same exact build better right?

Like a skyscraper. I use my dragon's Schnoz to protect his arms. Jagers just fist pump like a candy raver holding glow sticks.

[Rebas Kradd]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

You realize a Jagermech does that same exact build better right?

Fortunately, the difference is so slight that nobody is concerned with your rigid and context-less definition of balance.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

If youre going to play a Dragon, you should at least play to its strengths

I play my mechs to the pilot's strengths. Shame on me amirite?

Edited by lockwoodx, 08 May 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Fortunately, the difference is so slight that nobody is concerned with your rigid and context-less definition of balance.

Except the differences arnt slight. Which is why you see far more Jagermechs than Dragons. Dragons go fast and Jagermechs dont. Jagermechs have high mounted weapons and Dragons dont. Dragons get hit in the CT all the time and Jagermechs spread damage better. So if you want to go fast the Dragon is better because its got a higher engine cap and its CT protects its XL. If you want to be a walking weapons platform the Jagermech is better.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Except the differences arnt slight. Which is why you see far more Jagermechs than Dragons. Dragons go fast and Jagermechs dont. Jagermechs have high mounted weapons and Dragons dont. Dragons get hit in the CT all the time and Jagermechs spread damage better. So if you want to go fast the Dragon is better because its got a higher engine cap and its CT protects its XL. If you want to be a walking weapons platform the Jagermech is better.

The subject was never about going fast... because we were comparing a light mech that only goes 90 somthing but has the punch of a Dragon. Then I had to bust out my own slow as dirt build to show you how it's done son.

(I'm far better at forum pvp than I am in game. please don't make me log in and prove it)

Edited by lockwoodx, 08 May 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Khobai, on 08 May 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Except the differences aren't slight. Which is why you see far more Jagermechs than Dragons.

That's so not the definition of balance. You see far more Jagermechs than Dragons because people are lazy and unimaginative.

The true test of balance is whether a mech CAN be viable with a little work. If that gap is narrow enough, balance has to be present to at least some degree. From what I'm seeing in this thread, somebody's perfectly happy with what he's achieved.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 08 May 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[Sephlock]

People are going to cry so hard about ultra 2s until their velocity gets nerfed.

Plus, you know people are going to be gunning for light clan mechs, so even if you get behind them...

Edited by Sephlock, 08 May 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Exactly


Many unimaginative forum cavemen have no idea how strong the Clan Light mechs will be. Yes they will be "slow" compared to the IS one, but there firepower more then makes up for it. Lights punching well into the Medium or Heavy Class....and even one of the Mediums...moving as fast as the Clan Lights...able to punch into the Heavys and even Assaults. Think....if Clan light mechs can punch as hard as a Medium or even a Heavy. Then the Mediums and Heavys are going to be punching well above assaults, and Assaults are just going to be Gods. Heat will be the ONLY thing to keep these mechs in check.

[ShinVector]

SirLANsalot, on 08 May 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Exactly


Many unimaginative forum cavemen have no idea how strong the Clan Light mechs will be. Yes they will be "slow" compared to the IS one, but there firepower more then makes up for it. Lights punching well into the Medium or Heavy Class....and even one of the Mediums...moving as fast as the Clan Lights...able to punch into the Heavys and even Assaults. Think....if Clan light mechs can punch as hard as a Medium or even a Heavy. Then the Mediums and Heavys are going to be punching well above assaults, and Assaults are just going to be Gods. Heat will be the ONLY thing to keep these mechs in check.

As for constantly 1v1 or 1vX medium, heavy assault mechs in a light.... Call me a caveman if you want too..
If Clan lights are not allowed to go as fast as IS lights.. They are going to get owned.

There is problem called Ghost Heat that will prevents a clan light's punch from being uncontrollable.

[Koniving]

ShinVector, on 08 May 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Pending reveal whether engine size can be adjusted...
Current thought is all clan lights mechs are inferior to IS lights.

Who cares about those XL engines when the most reliable way to kill light mechs in this game is to de-leg them anyway ?

Engines cannot be adjusted.

Legging depends on hitboxes, but I gotta tell you my Firestarters have gone standard engine within the 97 kph range and they're doing superbly.

Just gotta hope the clan mechs also get good hitboxes, and someday MWO fixes the rest of the hitboxes to be good, too, without being Victor-style obscenely overprotective.

To emphasize.. this is bad, because it protects too well.

That is to say if you have a standard engine you could easily lose both sides while the enemy spends the entire time going for your CT (unless he's smart enough to go for the groin).

Edited by Koniving, 08 May 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 08 May 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Engines cannot be adjusted.
Legging depends on hitboxes, but I gotta tell you my Firestarters have gone standard engine within the 97 kph range and they're doing superbly.
Just gotta hope the clan mechs also get good hitboxes, and someday MWO fixes the rest of the hitboxes to be good, too, without being Victor-style obscenely overprotective.
To emphasize.. this is bad, because it protects too well.

Hmmm...
Referr to below... Successfully delegged 3 spiders in a Wolverine running at 110KPH..
<100KPH lights... HEhehehehehe...

[Koniving]

I've been fortunate. I see more meta mechs. Shadowhawks with AC/5s and PPCs and that kind of silliness that's pretty easy to dodge. And streaks like aiming for my limbs but ACs and PPCs like my chest.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 08 May 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

I've been fortunate. I see more meta mechs. Shadowhawks with AC/5s and PPCs and that kind of silliness that's pretty easy to dodge. And streaks like aiming for my limbs but ACs and PPCs like my chest.

Depends on the pilot... Can hard to dodge to the top tier fellars... The only need <=1 second view of your to tag your accordingly with PPC+AC. Then again.. Sometimes it is easy due to indirect targeting making you show up in a nice red box... Soooo Red Box + seismic.. they wait for you to clear the corner to get a the clear shot.. BOOM !!

Hmmm.. Currently I am trying to find some old footage... Did PGI scale back the perception of mech speed ? Hmmm.. When I look at myself in NGNG.. Heck.. 129KPH is Sloooow !!

Doh... Wait min.. After thinking about it some more.. It is obviously due to the movement penalties..
Slowly you down when hit every damn rock or brick.

Edited by ShinVector, 09 May 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[Curccu]

ShinVector, on 08 May 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Hmmm...
Referr to below... Successfully delegged 3 spiders in a Wolverine running at 110KPH..
<100KPH lights... HEhehehehehe...

Well...
Echo spider... was standing still.
Bravo spider... was standing still for your 1st alpha strike
Juliet spider... was standing still.
so it's kinda irrelevant how fast they could be or how fast you are.

but I think your point was anyway that <100 kph lights can be killed without any real effort, which is true.