277 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Merrick, on 09 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

The power of QQ won the day, thus we have COD: Giant Stompy Robots now. The worst part of that whole situation is that the vocal minority changes every 3 months as thgey get tired and run off to the next game they can exploit the **** out of meaning those who bitched until we ended up with the game we have now aren't even playing and a new crowd of whiney 12 years has taken on the cause to make it even worse.

the very point we tried to get through PGIs thick skull about catering to the non dedicated Btech crowd..... through all of Closed Beta? That Battletech might not have the fanbase size of WoW, but it was one of the most loyal, and dedicated, and oh, yeah, made up of mostly middle aged professionals, who had plenty of discretionary income that we were happy to part with....for the game we were described?

(I won't say "promised" like some of our more entitled members say...because we ere not promised, as founders anything beyond exactly what we received, and anyone really listening knew that they were painting blue sky ideas in very large strokes, and thus subject to changes due to reality constraints. And had those been the causes for changes, I think mos tof us would still be OK with it. But I am also reasonably sure that a lot of the changes were handed down directly from PGI, whose marketing people have never understood the Btech IP, and thus are still under the delusion this will somehow attract the numbers of players that the twitchy titles do..... which will NEVER happen.)

[General Taskeen]

Holy crap, most importantly that was a CN9-AH!

[CeeKay Boques]

Merrick, on 09 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

The power of QQ won the day, thus we have COD: Giant Stompy Robots now. The worst part of that whole situation is that the vocal minority changes every 3 months as thgey get tired and run off to the next game they can exploit the **** out of meaning those who bitched until we ended up with the game we have now aren't even playing and a new crowd of whiney 12 years has taken on the cause to make it even worse.

I want to believe, with every fiber of my being, that this is not true, and instead, they have lost the way due to some sort of planning/publisher factor.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dymlos2003, on 09 May 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

I still think you're having memory problems with the HUD flickering and such. That was in one MW and that was 3. When you rode heat too high your internals started to take damage, that's the only thing heat did back then.

Nope, sorry,m but you are wrong. In the era of Closed Beta I joined in, which was june 2012, it was very much an effect. Your internals take heat damage NOW. You components took damage then, and your ammo could cook off. I believe we have had this argument before and Koniving posted videos proving my points

Technoviking, on 09 May 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I want to believe, with every fiber of my being, that this is not true, and instead, they have lost the way due to some sort of planning/publisher factor.

while I won't give them that easy an out, I can almost guarantee that at least a chunk of the changes in direction absolutely were the Publisher. But it ain't like Paul can come out and say that if he wants a job, as most employers have codes of conduct that mean you can't trash talk the boss, even if it's true.

[Livewyr]

*sniffle* CN9-AH. I miss you so.

[Rhaythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 May 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

while I won't give them that easy an out, I can almost guarantee that at least a chunk of the changes in direction absolutely were the Publisher.  But it ain't like Paul can come out and say that if he wants a job, as most employers have codes of conduct that mean you can't trash talk the boss, even if it's true.

A free-to-play has to cater to as large an audience as possible... but yeah. God, I miss closed beta.

[Merrick]

Technoviking, on 09 May 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I want to believe, with every fiber of my being, that this is not true, and instead, they have lost the way due to some sort of planning/publisher factor.

I would love to believe that too but the state of the game unfortunatly proves my point far to well. We lost the fight because we are adults and were unwilling to degrade ourselves to that level and sadly believed that our logical, rational arguements and money would let us win out. What fools we were gentlemen

Edited by Merrick, 09 May 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[Dymlos2003]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 May 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Nope, sorry,m but you are wrong. In the era of Closed Beta I joined in, which was june 2012, it was very much an effect. Your internals take heat damage NOW. You components took damage then, and your ammo could cook off. I believe we have had this argument before and Koniving posted videos proving my points

Your components took damage, hence your internals instead of just your center. I joined in may er april 2012 and I never remember having my HUD flick. That was not in the game and I would remember such. That's what I'm arguing. I ran Jenners and Hunchback 4sps back in the CB days and you remember how hot they were.

[Fut]

Kyle Wright, on 09 May 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

https://www.youtube....yrgIKLim8#t=146
In the video Forest Colony looked like a true forest with trees all over the damn place. Sound effects sounded way more awesome with my favorite being the Centurion-AH pluggin the Awesome with a AC20 and you here the armor impact. Yeah the glowing red eyes was sinister but was able to be shot from far away.

The best part of this video, is that the trees actually seem to obscure the Red Triangles over the opponents.

[Dymlos2003]

Merrick, on 09 May 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

I would love to believe that too but the state of the game unfortunatly proves my point far to well. We lost the fight because we are adults and were unwilling to degrade ourselfs to that level and sadly believed that our logical, rational arguements and money would let us win out. What fools we were gentlemen

I do believe we are at fault at this point because we the people kept bitching for more, MORE, MOAR! What I really want is them to stop adding features. YES that means stop on CW and optimize what we have now.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 09 May 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[SweetJackal]

Well, part of the problem is when they introduced Damage Textures. That is, back in the days of closed beta mechs didn't show damage. As such the texture and model work on the mechs was bloody fantastic and managed to have a cell-shaded metal look on panels without being cell shaded. It's hard to describe, go find the original Hunchback pictures that featured the Closed Beta models and you'll see exactly what I am talking about.

Anyways, Damage Textures got put into the game, mechs now get to show damage on the model when they are hit. This degraded the texture work on every model in the game to handle the different 'dynamic' components.

Honestly, I hate it. I'd love to have the old look on the mechs back.

[N a p e s]

WarHippy, on 09 May 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

The separatist comment was tongue in cheek about him saying it pissed off the quake guys and you saying you were more in the UT camp. Had nothing to do with nationality.
I have noticed that people like to blame counter-strike gamers for things around here and I never have understood it. I played a lot of CS and I am normally on the same side of arguments as the people that seem to have a grudge against it. I really think the problem stems from people trying to pin this game as a FPS and then trying attribute its features to specific FPS like CS/UT/Quake when to me this isn't really a FPS. This game has a lot of room for different types of players, but the devs seem to have a lack of focus so everyone around here is trying to stake out their claim while trying to run off the others.

No worries man, I took it as a joke and was responding in kind.

And I agree with your point about this game not being an FPS, at least not in the traditional/typical sense.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhaythe, on 09 May 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

A free-to-play has to cater to as large an audience as possible... but yeah. God, I miss closed beta.

that is only partly true. You need numbers yes, to fill the lobbys. But the vast majority of players, that is ALL they do. On shallower, more popular titles, you definitely cater to them. Seriously, do you see people collecting CoD memorabilia for the next 30 years? but a less prominent IP, If you have a sizable contingent of whales, you base the core around the money, because the minnows will come and go, and ALWAYS move on to the next big thing anyhow. It's a horrible business model to try to cater to them. If you build the game RIGHT, you will still have that influx and migration of "bulk players".

But even NOW; PGI can't add simple conceptslike a GOOD tutorial to simplify the learning curve for the minnows, and in the end, that was the biggest issue was how steep the initial learning curve proved to be to the twitch crowd. There were plenty of ways (Cadet level queues with arm lock, etc and tutorials) to get past that without watering down the "final product" as a whole.

[Trauglodyte]

Mister Blastman, on 09 May 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

It pisses us Quakers off.

You're from Pennsylvania too? (joke)

Honestly, I'd love for a grapple gun for my mechs. Talk about awesome times...

[Odins Fist]

In Closed, and Early open beta there was a saying, before ECM was being cried about..

In the land of the blind, the Atlas RS is King.. LOL
Then that changed to Atlas D-DC

There were some things I liked more about Closed Beta, and things I like more about how MWO is now.
Collisions were just one of those things.

I especially liked when the Atlas K was a trial mech..

[Bishop Steiner]

Dymlos2003, on 09 May 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

I do believe we are at fault at this point because we the people kept bitching for more, MORE, MOAR! What I really want is them to stop adding features. YES that means stop on CW and optimize what we have now.

this I can agree on full bore.


Heck...half our game issues are that they never even balanced the core tech before introducing level 2 tech...and they have been yo-yoing things ever since. Heck they are STILL tuning LRMs (as of a month ago, anyhow) 2 year later. Had they actually spent Closed Beta tweaking tuning and getting Tier 1 MW going, then started the tier 2 tech in Open Beta (call it the War of 3039 for immersion) they would at least have had the Inner Sphere mechs working and mostly balanced, and then the Clan Invasion could come.

Instead.... we see them add XL engines, which had mechs running ridiculous engines, and playing "PaperCut Mechs" as the meta, then the Gauss came before DHS, and the Long Range lo heat totally rebroke the game...... and all the while, Paul is boosting, and nerfing everything else around it, without ever actually bothering to establish a bloody baseline to begin with.

[DarthPeanut]

Interesting.

Somethings are cool about the beta version that I see and like, but I guess it was one of those things you had to play to appreciate fully. I see some things I like and some things I do not at all.

One thing is clear, Atlas eyes need to glow red again! So they do not make for easy targeting... something like a min range before it is visible!

Edited by DarthPeanut, 09 May 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 May 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

that is only partly true.   You need numbers yes, to fill the lobbys.   But the vast majority of players, that is ALL they do.   On shallower, more popular titles, you definitely cater to them.  Seriously, do you see people collecting CoD memorabilia for the next 30 years?   but a less prominent IP, If you have a sizable contingent of whales, you base the core around the money, because the minnows will come and go, and ALWAYS move on to the next big thing anyhow.   It's a horrible business model to try to cater to them.  If you build the game RIGHT, you will still have that influx and migration of "bulk players".

But even NOW; PGI can't add simple conceptslike a GOOD tutorial to simplify the learning curve for the minnows, and in the end, that was the biggest issue was how steep the initial learning curve proved to be to the twitch crowd.  There were plenty of ways (Cadet level queues with arm lock, etc and tutorials) to get past that without watering down the "final product" as a whole.

I honestly believe someone at PGI headquarters in Soviet Canuckistan watched the Hawken tutorial and tried to copy it. Watch this vid. See if it looks familiar.

Edited by Rhaythe, 09 May 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

SuckyJack, on 09 May 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Well, part of the problem is when they introduced Damage Textures. That is, back in the days of closed beta mechs didn't show damage. As such the texture and model work on the mechs was bloody fantastic and managed to have a cell-shaded metal look on panels without being cell shaded. It's hard to describe, go find the original Hunchback pictures that featured the Closed Beta models and you'll see exactly what I am talking about.

Anyways, Damage Textures got put into the game, mechs now get to show damage on the model when they are hit. This degraded the texture work on every model in the game to handle the different 'dynamic' components.

Honestly, I hate it. I'd love to have the old look on the mechs back.

especially since the "damage textures" are so generic...... How do I slash a mech all day with lasers from my HBK-4P.... and the mech get riddled with bullet holes?

Rhaythe, on 09 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I honestly believe someone at PGI headquarters in Soviet Canuckistan watched the Hawken tutorial and tried to copy it. Watch this vid. See if it looks familiar.

If MW was near as shallow learning curve as Hawken, that might almost have worked, too, lol. (Ditto Titanfall, where you have a very good tutorial, even if the game itself is just not my style)

[Fut]

Rhaythe, on 09 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Soviet Canuckistan