162 replies to this topic

[GreyGriffin]

Eliminating pinpoint accuracy would dramatically increase the game's skill cap. You would have to take a diverse loadout, be able to manage positioning better to account for higher TTK, coordinate with your team better to cover you when you have to reposition. You would have to manage heat, because it would take more shots to land a kill.

Your ability to win games wouldn't be solely dependent on your ability to hover your mouse pointer over the enemy's left torso.

[Adiuvo]

GreyGriffin, on 10 May 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Eliminating pinpoint accuracy would dramatically increase the game's skill cap. You would have to take a diverse loadout, be able to manage positioning better to account for higher TTK, coordinate with your team better to cover you when you have to reposition. You would have to manage heat, because it would take more shots to land a kill.

Your ability to win games wouldn't be solely dependent on your ability to hover your mouse pointer over the enemy's left torso.

How would eliminating pinpoint raise TTK? I'M STUPID AND CAN'T READ.

Edited by Adiuvo, 10 May 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[GreyGriffin]

Adiuvo, on 10 May 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

How would eliminating pinpoint raise TTK?

Spreading damage over multiple 'mech components would increase the amount of time on average you would have to shoot at a 'mech to inflict fatal damage. This has the effect of increasing 'mech survivability across the board.

(This also has the side effect of increasing the impact of one of Battletech's unique mechanics: component damage, allowing it to actually come out and be a factor for more than the 2 and a half seconds before you die.)

[Adiuvo]

GreyGriffin, on 10 May 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

Spreading damage over multiple 'mech components would increase the amount of time on average you would have to shoot at a 'mech to inflict fatal damage. This has the effect of increasing 'mech survivability across the board.

(This also has the side effect of increasing the impact of one of Battletech's unique mechanics: component damage, allowing it to actually come out and be a factor for more than the 2 and a half seconds before you die.)

Actually forgot about what I said. I fail at reading comprehension. I thought you meant lower TTK, even though I even italicized raise. I'm a dumb.

[GreyGriffin]

It's cool. I actually looked it up to make sure I wasn't getting it backwards, since sometimes terms on the internet don't mean what they say they mean (/inigomontoya)

[Moment Killer]

I love that you guys still complain about tactical use of jump jets. I laugh at you all. The fact that they are still nerfing it amuses me. I'm glad you hate it. Makes me want to do it more.

[WarZ]

I support the mechanic where you get random hit and recticle shake ANYTIME a mech is in the air, jump jet firing, falling, falling off a cliff.

The mechanic is in place now. They just need to put it back on the entire air time like it was when first implemented. So sure you can take that low risk shot because you are popping back into perfect cover in usually less time than they can shoot you back, however your accuracy will be diminished to reflect the low risk of the tactic.

Right now its high reward vs low risk to jump snipe. It should be low reward for low risk.

More heat with jump jets will help the current problem as well.

Another mechanic that can help with pinpoint accuracy is the mechanic of "mech power supply". Basically depending on your mech / engine (a set value of 100 power / second for example), you have x amount of power for your weapons per second. So some example numbers would look like:
- Mech produces 100 power / second.
- PPC requires 50 power / second to fire.
- You can only fire 2 ppc at the same time at most. No other weapons will activate on that button press.
- AC20's might require 60 power / second to fire (since ghost heat really hits them). So only 1 can fire on a particular button push.
- Of course they would need to fully flesh out the numbers.

This gives the dev's nearly full control of what players can alpha with, that includes set restrictions that can change as they see fit.

It allows them to get rid of "ghost heat" entirely. So exaggerated and unintuitive heat levels are no longer an issue.

It would seem the concept of a "power mechanic" gives the devs a far more understandable and effective way to limit weapons use. Superior to ghost heat on many levels with way better flexibility to fine tune.

In fact the concept is present in the novels. When the clans are introduced (books 10-12) and we see pilots using the clan gauss rifle, every time they fired the gauss, the mech was not able to fire any other weapons and was unable to fire for a few seconds afterwards. The power draw was so high. But it was a powerful hit to compensate. So its well within the lore and its intuitive.

In fact this would allow them to remove that unpleasant gauss firing mechanic as well. Big bonus.

Edited by WarZ, 10 May 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[MrZakalwe]

Moment Killer, on 10 May 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I love that you guys still complain about tactical use of jump jets. I laugh at you all. The fact that they are still nerfing it amuses me. I'm glad you hate it. Makes me want to do it more.

'tactical'
lol

You know high level clan games are 24 jump snipers, loaded full of arty and airstrikes, right? That not clue you in to the fact it's overpowered?

I'll give you a hint; you doing well as a jump sniper because you are good at the game

Edited by MrZakalwe, 10 May 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Moment Killer, on 10 May 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I love that you guys still complain about tactical use of jump jets. I laugh at you all. The fact that they are still nerfing it amuses me. I'm glad you hate it. Makes me want to do it more.

if there was anything "tactical" about the current usage, you might be on to something.......

[Aresye]

Psycho Farmer, on 10 May 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Pinpoint has been the problem since day 1. They copied everything else from WoT, why not the stupid cone?

This isn't WoT, and we're talking 31st century targeting systems here.

Pinpoint accuracy is not some new thing in the MW series. You move your reticle over a target, it hits where you aim.

You want a counter-strike like game where you fire a good shot only to have the game decide, "Nope, you're gonna miss that one?"

No. F*** that. I don't play MechWarrior so I can have the same firing mechanics as Call of Duty.

Increase TTL? This game already has like...double the armor. It already takes much longer to kill a mech on average than any other MW game. Maybe if people learned how to pilot their mechs properly, they wouldn't be getting their XL or back shot out in 10s.

[GreyGriffin]

Aresye, on 10 May 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

This isn't WoT, and we're talking 31st century targeting systems here.

The 31st century as imagined in the 80s. If this was the real 31st century, we'd be remotely operating hover drones firing semiguided railguns at each other from continents away.

Or rather, we wouldn't be operating them at all.

[Adiuvo]

MrZakalwe, on 10 May 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'll give you a hint; you doing well as a jump sniper because you are good at the game

It's not overpowered to the degree that you can instantly take one and do well with it, unless your definition of well is something like 300 damage.

[Moment Killer]

Also. I'm not a great player, I'm also not great at jumping and firing on target. But I still don't have a problem if someone else is better at it than me. It doesn't make me want to go complain until it's changed so that I can bring the other persons skill level down to mine. It won't make a difference, because all things being equal he or she will still be more skilled than me.

[Name140704]

Aresye, on 10 May 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

This isn't WoT, and we're talking 31st century targeting systems here.

Pinpoint accuracy is not some new thing in the MW series. You move your reticle over a target, it hits where you aim.

You want a counter-strike like game where you fire a good shot only to have the game decide, "Nope, you're gonna miss that one?"

No. F*** that. I don't play MechWarrior so I can have the same firing mechanics as Call of Duty.

Increase TTL? This game already has like...double the armor. It already takes much longer to kill a mech on average than any other MW game. Maybe if people learned how to pilot their mechs properly, they wouldn't be getting their XL or back shot out in 10s.

Heh, yeah...people don't play this game for the realism of it. I have never played a call of duty game, so I cannot comment to that. Pinpoint has always been in MW, true, but this is the first MW game where you can't just take any mech and go in, either.

Since you have a fancy signature, I'll cut to the chase. Poptart is ******* boring. Mechwarrior 4 multiplayer sucked because internet badasses had to show how great they are and instead of having fun, we had up shoot down up shoot down up shoot down. "But I win" can eat ****. You win the game of gutless, pointless ****.


Sounds like a fun game, why not just go to the training grounds and shoot the dummies if ya can't handle getting shot a few times.

**** that boring ****. Cone of fire helps everyone.

[MrZakalwe]

I'm a bad player (I'm trash) and I have a much, much better k/d and win rate as jump snipers than anything else.

It's MWO on easy mode.

[East Indy]

Reticle shake is nice, and if it's all that can be done I support it, but it's still a mask for a symptom.

Game's not designed for more than a handful of 'Mechs to put 20 points of damage into one location per shot, and definitely not at long range. Heat scale, intended more for overall damage, did limit some, and PGI has been nibbling with velocities and the Gauss charge -- but it's not enough, really.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 10 May 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

It's not overpowered to the degree that you can instantly take one and do well with it, unless your definition of well is something like 300 damage.

if the casuals I drop with in PUG queues did 300 pts consistently, I would take it. Then again, when I get most people to actually post their stats, and you find your average damage, it's usually far lower than people care to admit on here.

[Aresye]

GreyGriffin, on 10 May 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

The 31st century as imagined in the 80s. If this was the real 31st century, we'd be remotely operating hover drones firing semiguided railguns at each other from continents away.

Or rather, we wouldn't be operating them at all.

31st century technology as imagined in the 80s, and includes a full degree of systems that help converge all weapons to the targeting reticle, regardless of mech movement, jump jets, etc.

Maybe they should implement other aspects of lore like armor slagging off from laser/PPC fire and requiring the pilot to fight the sudden imbalance of losing 1-2 tons of weight? Or weapons that actually knock people down?

I kid. The ragesplosion would be epic, because people look at this game like an arcade FPS, and forget the other half that involves piloting skill.

Psycho Farmer, on 10 May 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Heh, yeah...people don't play this game for the realism of it. I have never played a call of duty game, so I cannot comment to that. Pinpoint has always been in MW, true, but this is the first MW game where you can't just take any mech and go in, either.

Since you have a fancy signature, I'll cut to the chase. Poptart is ******* boring. Mechwarrior 4 multiplayer sucked because internet badasses had to show how great they are and instead of having fun, we had up shoot down up shoot down up shoot down. "But I win" can eat ****. You win the game of gutless, pointless ****.

MW4's poptarting problem was much, much worse, but that was more of a result from the 3rd person view giving a huge advantage.

Leaving out the occasional game where you run into a victor/highlander tornado from a competitive premade, there's maybe 2-3 meta poptarts per team, of which a good majority of them that can't even hit anything that isn't standing still or running directly at/away from them.

I haven't had any issues killing jump snipers in a non-meta mech unless it's against a coordinated group from one of the more competitive units, which I end up facing maybe once every 10-15 games.

Edited by Aresye, 10 May 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye, on 10 May 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Maybe they should implement other aspects of lore like armor slagging off from laser/PPC fire and requiring the pilot to fight the sudden imbalance of losing 1-2 tons of weight? Or weapons that actually knock people down?

actually, yeah, most of the old timers on here would like that, actually.

[Moment Killer]

k/d doesn't mean anything except that you got the last hit. Even if that was the determining factor, I have a worse k/d in my 3D and HGH than I do in anything else. Just because another mech doesn't have jj's does not mean it can't use cover wisely. Again, going back to the root of the problem, skill can't be balanced. You're just chasing the needle if you try.