95 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

I'm partial to the missile Locusts myself, They're surprisingly effective despite their lack of armor, and you can add an artillery strike and make them even nastier. They are very fast as well, making them great missile support for a scout lance.

[White Bear 84]

crossflip, on 11 May 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

The most common lurmboats I see are catapults. The second most common, however, are atlai.

Yeah, Atlas LRM boats are such a cop-out... ...ALWAY take mine out on the frontline. Enough said.

Just wanna play, on 11 May 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

I vote awesomes, let me break 600dmg for the first time...and 700....and 800.... back in the good ol 8 vs 8s, still use em as well, though having more fun ppcing with the 8q for now

Wondered when they would get some love lol. I found that pre-stat wipe and pre LRM buff, the KDR on my Awesome 8R was a paltry 0.45. Then again I did PUG with it a lot. Now I generally only bring out my LRM boats when working within a 4 man group - purely because of the unreliability of PUG teams and interestingly it has a KDR of 5.5 and my highest W/L ratio. I could go on the semantics of LRM boating and how I still think they are bit OP but wont go down this road.

My only advice - At least if you are pugging, you are better off going with a mech that has some kind of support weapon; you cannot always count on spots or locked targets so need to be ready to have a secondary weapon - not just where there are no solid locks, but also when lights hit the rear and attempt to take you out. Anyhow, that said, my favorite will always be the Catapult..

P.S. A tip for lights; TAG disables ECM - so there is no excuse for letting their ECM provide cover for the enemy team from your teams LRM's!

Edited by White Bear 84, 11 May 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[wanderer]

I'll cheer on the Jagermech-A as well.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d3f6dcdb9cc1041

This is what I just mastered. The MG's are surprisingly useful in driving off lights if they've taken even moderate damage, because they generally know what happens when I finish the armor off. Also nice for gnawing away the structure on heavier 'Mechs that I tend to run into after they tangled with someone else and took some damage.

Alternatively:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...55adff16ff68050

This is a more traditional build along the lines of a bastardized Catapult, with TAG and a single long-range laser + the MG's. It's slower, and some people may prefer ditching the MG's for another heatsink/larger engine, but 1800 ammo is solid for most fights.

You can go with an extra ALRM-5 or swap to ALRM 20's in each arm if you want to, but honestly I like it with just the twin 15's. Enough to get through AMS, ammo economic, packs a respectable punch, and the temptation to rapidfire the 5's/deal with the extra 5 missiles firing behind the main cloud getting AMS'd isn't there.

[OznerpaG]

RLBell, on 11 May 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

No ams, no BAP. One ECM light mech dancing around it and it is good as dead (I have a fondness for RVN-3L's with the 360 targetting module), as it cannot fire and if the enemy has missiles it is in for a world of hurt. With a BAP, even if you cannot shoot at the light, you can still get lock-ons to other enemy mechs.

i just ditched all my BAP - TAG burns through ECM and lets you target what it's painting out to 750m regardless of your sensor range for .5t/1 crit less. since you have to point at your target to lock LRMs your TAG will already be pointing at your target anyways - you lose an energy slot, but if you'r going to all out LRM then TAG is god

BAP is for SSRMs only

Edited by JagdFlanker, 11 May 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[Javenri]

I think it really depends on what one means "missile boat". To me the definition is: "a mech dedicated to do massive damage using LRM, containing all necessary systems needed to do so". To acomplish that role it needs:
-A lot of LRM ammunition due to low accuracy (minimum 7 tons)
-BAP and TAG or NARC
-Artemis is good to have, but not always possible
-Advanced Target Decay module

Having the above in mind, I can recommend the Awsome 8R/8V (the second having less launchers but more energy weapons), as well as the Stalker 5M. I know that Battlemaster 1S is also an excellent LRM boat, but I don't own one.

[IraqiWalker]

MortVent, on 10 May 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

For assaults iirc the best choices for me are the highlander BATTLEMASTER or the stalker. With the highlander BATTLEMASTER, being a better choice with the jump jets

Needed to make a correction there.

[OznerpaG]

Javenri, on 11 May 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

I think it really depends on what one means "missile boat". To me the definition is: "a mech dedicated to do massive damage using LRM, containing all necessary systems needed to do so". To acomplish that role it needs:
-A lot of LRM ammunition due to low accuracy (minimum 7 tons)
-BAP and TAG or NARC
-Artemis is good to have, but not always possible
-Advanced Target Decay module

Having the above in mind, I can recommend the Awsome 8R/8V (the second having less launchers but more energy weapons), as well as the Stalker 5M. I know that Battlemaster 1S is also an excellent LRM boat, but I don't own one.

- as mentioned in a previous post, BAP is a waste when you have TAG, unless you have SSRMs

- Artemus is ESSENTIAL for LRMS since they reduce lock time by 50%

[White Bear 84]

IraqiWalker, on 11 May 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Needed to make a correction there.

But Battlemasters do not have jump jets?

[Phlinger]

I always found it easier to mix and match LRM's with other weapons so they aren't your only way of dealing with enemies. Thunderbolts are good for this as they have large missile bays for One LRM20 or 15 paired with an LRM 10, always with Artemis. In pug matches if I use one, I'll stay just behind the assaults lobbing missiles until I get the 'LRM ammo is at 25%' warning, then bust out the LBX and Medium lasers to take advantage of the holes I just made. Whenever I get a chance to lob more missiles, I take it though.

If I decide to go all LRM's, it's Battle master or Catapult all the way.

[Ertur]

I only have 2 LRM boats, the Phoenix T-Bolt and the Griffin 1S. They do ok. I also include 2-4 energy weapons (in addition to tag), so they aren't 'pure' LRM boats. Catapults and Kintaros are probably objectively better at it, in the long run.
I thought about making my Battlemaster S an LRM boat, but I put SRM's & SSRM's in it instead because no-one expects that. Not the optimal use, in some ways, but it amuses me and does well enough.

[IraqiWalker]

JagdFlanker, on 11 May 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

- Artemus is ESSENTIAL for LRMS since they reduce lock time by 50%

Artemis is really good on mechs with few launchers (2 15 tube bays), on mechs with multiple launchers like the BLR-1S (2x10+2x15) I would rather not have it. Saves me 4 tons of ammo and 4 slots for ammo and DHS. Which compensate for the spread reduction, and if you know what you're doing, for the lock time as well.

[Escef]

A note on people poo-pooing the use of the Atlas as an LRM boat. What protects an LRM boat from counter battery fire better than an ECM?

EDIT: THIS would make for a decent companion for another LRM boat. Cover them both with ECM, up close it can end threats.

Edited by Escef, 12 May 2014 - 01:26 AM.

[Zigeunerskat]

JagdFlanker, on 11 May 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

TAG disables ECM so no need for PPCs to do that job

You do not need it, but it is still a great addition. TAG does not disable ECM, it allows you to get a lock on the Mech you aim it at as long as you hold the tagging laser on it (and it does not work at all when you are in the range of the ECM disrupt, however you should have BAP for that).

A PPC hit temporarily disables ECM, allowing you to get locks on the ECM Mech and any other Mech that would have been protected by the Guardian umbrella. You also dont have to keep your aiming device on the target. Pop out, disable ECM via the PPC, get a quick lock thanks to Artemis, shoot the LRMs and get behind cover again while Advanced Target Decay lets you keep a steady lock. With TAG vs. ECM, once LoS is gone, the lock is gone, too.


Of course ERPPCs are not needed for a missle boat. But I found it to be a useful addition for the reasons listed above, plus it is potent long range weapon and extra close range defense.

[IraqiWalker]

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

A note on people poo-pooing the use of the Atlas as an LRM boat. What protects an LRM boat from counter battery fire better than an ECM?

EDIT: THIS would make for a decent companion for another LRM boat. Cover them both with ECM, up close it can end threats.

Or just use a COM-2D so you don't waste 100 tons on a bad LRM boat. I don't mind an Atlas having LRMs, but using those in a primary configuration is flat out bad. You're robbing your team of the Atlas' ability to draw fire and tank, to put a mediocre LRM 35 (a Wolverine can do that better btw) on it.

The biggest problem with using LRM boat Atlasses is that they are honestly bad for it. The mech wasn't designed for that role. It's the Same reason why you don't use a Locust to be your tank, or front line mech.

I have no problem with that build, if you dropped Artemis, added more MLs, and hit the front line. Even as a second line mech you would be infinitely more useful than sitting at the back with the LRM boats, incapable of doing any significant damage with your inefficient LRM35 (one of the LRM15s will fire through a 5 tube launcher, building more heat, and slowing down fire rate). Not even your AC20 can be used in that position.

[Barrett]

Battlemaster. 2x 20 LRM, 2x 15 LRM and 4 ML for defense.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Shadow Hawk 2K with 3 LRM 10's, 2 ML and a TAG (plus BAP) is a ton of fun.

Griffin with 4 LRM 5s and a PPC is annoying as hell and can be very good if there is not a lot of AMS in play.

I'd say I like the Orion if you wanted a Heavy LRM mech.

And then there is the Stalker/Battlemaster/Highlander for Assaults...just a matter of what you are after.

[Escef]

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Or just use a COM-2D so you don't waste 100 tons on a bad LRM boat. I don't mind an Atlas having LRMs, but using those in a primary configuration is flat out bad. You're robbing your team of the Atlas' ability to draw fire and tank, to put a mediocre LRM 35 (a Wolverine can do that better btw) on it.

Yes, because a Commando can carry an AC20, right?

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

The biggest problem with using LRM boat Atlasses is that they are honestly bad for it. The mech wasn't designed for that role. It's the Same reason why you don't use a Locust to be your tank, or front line mech.

And Jagermechs aren't designed to carry 2xAC20, that doesn't stop people from doing it.

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I have no problem with that build, if you dropped Artemis, added more MLs, and hit the front line.

And where are these energy points needed to mount more medium lasers going to come from, genius?

[IraqiWalker]

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yes, because a Commando can carry an AC20, right?

The AC20 you're not using because you're 800 meters away from combat? The Commando will at least give them ECM cover, and it's only 25 tons. Will carry the Medium Laser you graced your 100 TON mech with, and also strap 3 streaks which will be better suited for dealing with any light mechs that might come this way.

The Commando is one example, still better than a DDC escort, but not the best. You're focusing on the wrong things here. My point is that there are half a dozen mechs significantly better at escorting and protecting LRM boats than an Atlas DDC.

Come 3/3/3/3 that will be even more emphasized.

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

And Jagermechs aren't designed to carry 2xAC20, that doesn't stop people from doing it.

Have you played with a Jagermech? it was designed to be a ballistic platform, for all kinds of ballistic weapons. Your mistake in that example is focusing on the weapon, not the role. A better one would be, using a Jagermech as a scout. THAT is something the Jagermech wasn't built for. It was absolutely built for handling ballistics, of all calibers.

I'm not bashing LRMs on an Atlas, in fact I think they make for a fine secondary weapon it. You can use them for suppression as you move forward to make sure you keep your enemies' heads down. Don't make an LRM focused atlas though.

Here's a more viable use for that set up:
AS7-D-DC Might be a bit too much LRM ammo in there, but it's easy to tweak into most roles you can use an Atlas for. One group for MPLs, one group for AC20, and one group for LRMs on chain fire. This mech will be capable of doing it all, without costing your team a brawler.

I don't mind using assaults as LRM boats, that's the trade off, you get a slower LRM boat, you lose some of your team's tanking power, but you get a mech that can drown the enemy in missiles. The Atlas can't do the LRM boating well, at all. You can remove one of the heatsinks, bring the armor to almost max and slap a BAP in there, if you really want to focus on LRMing.

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

And where are these energy points needed to mount more medium lasers going to come from, genius?

From a mech more qualified for the job.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 12 May 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Escef]

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Have you played with a Jagermech? it was designed to be a ballistic platform, for all kinds of ballistic weapons.

No, it was designed to be a mobile anti-aircraft weapons platform, meant to compliment or obsolete the Rifleman in that role. What it does in MWO is very separate from what it was designed to do.

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I'm not bashing LRMs on an Atlas,...

Than you well hide your intentions.

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Here's a more viable use for that set up:
AS7-D-DC Might be a bit too much LRM ammo in there,...

Um, no, that's not too much ammo. I run 2xLRM10 on a Catapult with the same amount of ammo, and I tend to burn through it too quickly to rely on the LRMs as anything other than opening shots and weapons of opportunity. Otherwise I have 2xML and 2xLL to hack through people. The D-DC set-up you propose... I'd swap the MPLs out for normal MLs, cut the CASE, and upgrade the launchers to Artemis. I'd also think about stripping the AMS and 8 points of armor from each leg for more LRM ammo, those LRM5s cycle quickly and will burn through ammo.

If I wanted to run a set-up like you propose, I could do it much better on an Orion. Still a bit light on ammo and it lacks ECM, but it's faster and 7 million c-bills cheaper to put together (and I can tell you from experience that it works).

[IraqiWalker]

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

No, it was designed to be a mobile anti-aircraft weapons platform, meant to compliment or obsolete the Rifleman in that role. What it does in MWO is very separate from what it was designed to do.

yes, and the premier anti aircraft weaponry of the era were mostly ballistics like the LBX-10AC. It's still a ballistics mech at the end of the day, and that role isn't very far off from what it's doing right now. So far Jagermechs serve as Fire Support Units, such as snipers, skirmishers and second line mechs. All of these are roles the chassis is capable of fulfilling, without handicapping itself or it's team.

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Than you well hide your intentions.

My intentions have been clear: LRM boating Atlas mechs are bad. Pure and simple.

Escef, on 12 May 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Um, no, that's not too much ammo. I run 2xLRM10 on a Catapult with the same amount of ammo, and I tend to burn through it too quickly to rely on the LRMs as anything other than opening shots and weapons of opportunity.

That's the whole point. You're not supposed to use LRMs as your main weapon on an Atlas, that would be a bad configuration. You use them to fire suppression shots, and to support any teammates at long range while you're making your way to them.