3 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I am not against the 3/3/3/3 objective, but shouldn’t game balance and role warfare come first. By implementing 3/3/3/3 before those changes you are simply sweeping most of the issues under the rug. The root of the problem isn’t that everyone plays assaults, that is just a symptom of assaults being the best choice for every situation.

But has it aslways been that way? the answer is no. Closed beta showed us a great deal more diversity, but this was largely due to low projectile speeds, lack of HSR, and no engine restrictions. First, projectile speed and accuracy. Autocannos, PPCs, and Gauss received massive boosts pre-HSR to help compensate for server=side reliability, and once that was resolved (with HSR), those bonuses were never removed. So now we are left with a group of weapons vastly superior to everything else in the game. To combat this PGI implemented Ghost Heat, which prevented boating a single weapon type, which mostly affected medium mechs since Heavy and Assault had the raw tonnage available to simply “diversify” across the superior Meta group of weapons ignoring the Ghost heat penalties. Of course Heavy mechs were abandoned once “high-agility” assaults and pop-tarting were introduced into the game.

So now that the history of game balance problems has been laid bare, it is a simple matter to address those issues individually. Of course the problem, is the bandaid-effect, or the fear an anticipation by the current users of Assault mechs, who have been coddled and mollified since day one; and are now a majority and afraid of playing anything else.

I don’t envy you PGI, you have introduced a cancer within the game, and allowed it to prosper under you willful ignorance. Sadly your decision to cover it up with 3/3/3/3 is not the right one. And as frighening as pulling the bandaid is, it is the best solution in this case. Not everything I mention below needs to be implemented but certainly some of it does to help narrow the gap in playability between weight classes.

• Lower Ranges of Autocannons
  
• Add AC minimum ranges, it works under the same logic as minimum range LRMs do, proximity arming.
  
• Desync PPCs from auto cannons (projectile speed, damage spread, charge-up, etc)
  
• Reduce agility of Assault/Heavy mechs (and possibly Heavy) so there is a clear and defined difference between light > medium > heavy > assault. This means twist range and speed, jump speed, acceleration, etc. The fastest heavies (Dragon/Quickdraw) should be near the slowest mediums, while the fastest Assaults near the slowest Heavies.
  
• LRM boating. Much more restrictions on LRMs and boating. Either by limiting missile count to tube count (undoing 2 years of labor for you to change tube count graphics), or quit giving every mech with a single SRM2 slot 4 missile hardpoints. Or replace ghost heat with LRM jam/explosion chance, after all it is a long trip from the Left Leg to the Right arm, with lots of moving joints for that ammo feeder to work around (especially tough when the Left torso is destroyed but screw logistics).
  
• Restrictive hardpoints. I know you intentionally avoided this like the plague, because the game originally had only 4 chassis so it was the only way to diversify. Now that we have dozens of chassis and variants it is time to end the age of frankenmechs.
  
• poptarting. Just get rid of it. Or at the very least require the mechs arms to be used to balance flight mode (yeah jumping in this game is more like flight), and force the arm reticle to the top of the screen. Additionally have mechs who fire while shooting mid air (or who are hit mid-air) to fall… oh wait collision disappeared in closed beta too.

I know these concerns may come off as a random rant, but I can assure you as a MWO fan and early financial supporter, the game has become stale. Furthermore, Clan mechs, which should have been an easy revenue source as a natural and canonical power creep opportunity, now hold no value to me. Weapon pods, customization, sorry, already have it on my existing mechs. Symmetrical 12v12 warfare, no thanks, we have it now.

Edited by Egomane, 11 May 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[FupDup]

I don't necessarily agree with all of your specific balance ideas (but I do like some), but I agree with the overall message of making other choices more desirable (Role Warfare) than just forcing certain team compositions.

Some ideas of my own (can add on or intermix or whatever with you own if you want):

• Modify the engine heatsink rules such that sub-250 engines now have all 10 base heatsinks located on the inside rather than the outside. The engine's weight would be increased to represent the new heatsinks inside of it. Note that the overall tonnage would still be the same in the end, however. The only real difference is that you would gain critical slots and slightly better cooling (due to 2.0 internal DHS). The intention of this is to remove one of the penalties for choosing to play a non-optimal light mech (such as the Commando, Locust, or slow Ravens). Those mechs do not deserve fewer critical slots than a meta Jenner or Firestarter.
  
• Enlarge all maps to be Alpine sized or larger, in order to make mobility more useful.
  
• Add a passive sensors mode. While in this mode, you could not receive target info from allies or transmit info to allies, while also having a very short sensor range (i.e. 300-400 meters?). The tradeoff is that you would also be much harder for the enemy to detect (i.e. you'd have to get within 200-400 meters for them to get the Red Dorito). The end effect of this is that it makes stealthy maneuvers much easier, especially for non-ECM mechs.
  
• Add hotkey commands for pointing out enemy positions and what not. This is to save typing time for scouts (typing takes so long that they don't usually even rely their information).
  
• Fix ECM/BAP to have a soft counter relationship rather than hard counter -- non of them fully cancel out the other. Allow missiles to obtain locks without being able to see the Red Dorito (LoS would be the only requirement). Locks against targets lacking the Red Dorito would simply take longer to achieve and would be must easier to break.
  
• Buff short-range weapons like SRMs, Pulse Lasers, LBX, and a little nudge for MGs.
  
• Segregate module slots by "type" rather than just "a module is a module is a module." I.e. sensor/scouting module, support module, weapon module, etc. Mechs would be allocated module slot types based on what their role would be intended to be (i.e. Raven 3L would have mostly scouting/support modules, slow Ravens would have mostly weapon and support modules).
  
• Re-do the whole global XP tree. Create paths within it the lead to certain roles, such as close combat/brawling (featuring things like heat efficiency, durability etc.), recon (sensor bonuses, speed, etc), and fire support (weapon cooldowns, damage, etc.) and/or other roles that we want to have. These are just examples for illustration. Note that you could technically go down any role path with any mech, but not all mechs are equally suited to certain roles. As an example, the Locust would probably be better off with recon than the close quarters fighter traits because of its naturally low tonnage for armor and weapons.
  
• Increase C-Bill and XP payouts for activities other than kills and assists.
  
• Anything else I can think of later.
  
• Nuke Ghost heat from orbit, just because.

Edited by FupDup, 11 May 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[wanderer]

I'm in the "wait and see" for 3/3/3/3. I think it doesn't divide 'Mechs into enough tiers (should be 5, not 4) for balance, and there's plenty of stuff that needs to be fixed that you've mentioned- and some of it that doesn't or needs much less/different work to fix than you think.

I'd also like to see Community Warfare actually reward specific unit layouts for tasks and allow more than the 3/3/3/3. A "recon in force" having no heavies and assaults for the drop, while "garrison" might be more the opposite- and the matchmaker rewards them appropriately when they collide for a fight. Units that are more flexible in weight choices get more contract opportunities, while units that specialize will still get to play- the classic "Steiner Scout Force" taking on those "assault the heavily fortified base" missions while the all-35-tons-or-less wolfpack fills the competent bill for the recon runs. Want to conquer a planet? You've got to finish all the missions required to do so, and every successful "defense" mission from the other side pushes that back a notch.
But that assumes someone in PGI can actually do more than sketch community warfare ideas on napkins. It's been a long wait for more than pretty posts and false hopes.

[MonkeyDCecil]

I personally want 3/3/3/3. And then all that other stuff, to come out in waves.