18 replies to this topic

[ThatBum42]

As 3/3/3/3 approaches, I'd like to have at least one light mech to balance out my stable of all medium and heavy mechs (5 at the moment). Now, I've played a couple hundred matches with my CDA-2A (mastered) as a striker. That is, sneak up on an enemy formation already engaged with my team, pop out of cover, and get a couple alphas in, preferably on their rear armor. Once they noticed me, get the hell out of dodge and relocate to another piece of cover, wait a bit to cool off and hope they forget about me, repeat. I only resort to straight-up knife fighting as a last resort, probably because I'm bad at it and the CDA might not be designed that well for it. Using this strategy I usually perform well, and am particularly good at sawing off crit components or picking out the weak.

Anyway, I noticed people with 6x MLAS JR7-Fs, and I'm considering making my own. Looks like it's got a few benefits as compared to the CDA. It's got jumpjets, weapons on the arms for more vertical reach, a bit more armor than the CDA build, more speed...no AMS in this build though, but that was almost an afterthought as the 2A was my first build based on the trial at the time (though it's surprisingly effective at shooting down Streaks).

So, will it play and handle like the CDA with the aforementioned strategy, or is its real strength in the knife fighting/skirmishing? I suppose if the latter is the case, then it's not too a big deal. I'll just adapt and work with other lights.

[Ken Burkhart]

I think that if you are using that CICADA build you are better of in a Jenner-F. The loss of AMS to me is much more than made up in Jump Jets. You also lose a bit of heat sinks, but considering the play style you describe that shouldn't be a problem. Those jets can help with your style too because you are no longer limited on that approach vector that you sneak in on. Some maps are worse than others, with the canyons probably being the most applicable to this case, making you go the long way around at times.

The Jenners have been pretty much my exclusive mechs. I've tried bigger mechs but I can't get comfortable with not going as fast as I'm used to. Also, in the case of my Jenner-F(and the other variants when I was using them) you can kit it out in different ways. I like the classic 6med laser one, but sometimes I feel like taking it slower and keeping distance and instead use a pair of ERLarge lasers. Right now it is set up with one ERLarge plus 5 Meds, which has a pretty nasty alpha of 34 and still has that one ERLarge to get some range, which is useful for scraping things at a distance for those assists, and for those sniper shots to distract LURM Boats and poptarts while your team pushes on them.

[CMetz]

FS9-H is another good candidate, or FS9-S if you want dual AMS, but to run a bit hotter.

[DONTOR]

I find your Cicadas lack of leg armor disturbing. You will get further in survivability if you lose the AMS max the leg armor, and add 2 points to your head armor. Then add an additional DHS, your fast enough that missles shouldnt effect you too much, and you can outrun all but the very fastest of streak boats.

Also I say add 2 points to your head because internal health is 15+16 armor = 31 points meaning a lucky Duall gauss or AC5PPC mix wont kill you in 1 shot.

[focuspark]

DONTOR, on 28 April 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I find your Cicadas lack of leg armor disturbing. You will get further in survivability if you lose the AMS max the leg armor, and add 2 points to your head armor. Then add an additional DHS, your fast enough that missles shouldnt effect you too much, and you can outrun all but the very fastest of streak boats.

Also I say add 2 points to your head because internal health is 15+16 armor = 31 points meaning a lucky Duall gauss or AC5PPC mix wont kill you in 1 shot.

Meh, he's using the "cook and book" loadout. He likely won't be the target of a Gauss rifle, though AC20 might pose a problem. The play style which works well with the CDA-2A also works well for JR7-F, though he will notice the increases "squishiness" of the Jenner compared to the Cicada. That said, Jenners are kings of maneuverability so after a dozen matches in this new Jenner he may forget how to play that Cicada effectively; I know I did.

[DEMAX51]

If you like Cicadas (and the playstyle you mentioned) you're going to absolutely love the Jenner, man. It's miles beyond the Cicada.

That build for the Jenner you posted looks pretty good, but here's a tip: cram as many heatsinks into your side torsos (along with your jumpjets, too) as you possibly can - only put heatsinks (or jump jets) in your Center Torso if you have absolutely no other choice. Reason being, in the Jenner your CT is going to take the brunt of your damage, and your Side Torsos will rarely be critically damaged. If you put your stuff in your CT it is FAR more likely to be destroyed by a critical strike, therefore, Side Torso is the better spot for it

Edit: And really learn to use those jump jets if you're not used to them. Apart from being able to climb hills better, you can give 'em a little tap when you're rounding a corner to take the turn tighter. You can use 'em when you've got incoming LRMs to spread the damage/cause more of the missiles to miss you entirely. When you're dueling another 'Mech one on one, if you can try to time the enemy's shots you can use your JJs to make them miss, or throw off their aim.... JJs are what truly set the Jenner apart from the Cicada - they're invaluable.

Edited by DEMAX51, 28 April 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Kurkotain]

Well, maybe you are experiencing problems with your CDA because of the build.

First and foremost, the cicada ISN'T a light. It's a medium that plays like a light but it isn't.
So the biggest problem in your build is that you're sacrificing too much weight in an engine, trying to make your cicada hit the speeds other lights do.
That is a mistake (in my humble opinion)

Somebody in the forums did a calculation, a long time ago, that showed that the absolute sweet spot, engine wise, for the cicada is the XL300.
Anything less and you're too slow and vulnerable. Anything more and you're sacrificing too much weight to go fast, and not making the best out of the extra 5 tons available to the cicada. In other words, not enough payload for the speed.

This is a sample build i did in 30 seconds:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a225807c9af890

Downgraded the engine to an XL300, removed ferro and added a crapload of heatsinks. now you can outshoot anything that cares to go after you, and enough speed to outrun anything you can't outgun. Except a streakboat. be wary of streakboats. but that's why i kept the ams.

Remove the AMS and ammo? You get an insane number of heatsinks:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ef61ed20bdf5d48

You can switch the mediums to medium pulse and melt the enemy (and yourself by the 3rd alpha)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e2a53a3d00a4ee8

Add ferro and you can even squeeze in another heatsink:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9df00f9fd5d65b6

The point is, the XL300 engine is the one that makes the cicada really dangerous.

Obligatory 2 ERLarge build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d9960406abcb9ab

No ecm, so that works better on a Cicada 3M. but by that point, you are better of in a 2ERLarge raven 3L for only somewhat worse cooling capacity and better speed.

Edited by Kurkotain, 28 April 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[focuspark]

Since we're handing out builds:

CDA-2A
JR7-F

The Cicada is better al'round, except the Jenner can jump, is a smaller target, and corners better. Otherwise the Cicada has more armor, a better top speed, better cooling, and doesn't care about keeping it's arms attached (add benefit once the arms are blown off they're a 50% damage reduction for the side-torsos).

Edited by focuspark, 28 April 2014 - 09:50 AM.

[1453 R]

I love my Cicadas. They’re great little ‘Mechs; plenty fast, enough armament to get the job done, an all-important ECM variant, and the best part? They’re practically invisible. As someone with mastered Cicadas and not-mastered Jenners (for this following reason, no matter how much I want to get done with the little bass tarps), allow me to impart unto you a bit of crucial wisdom in making your decision: nobody shoots at Cicadas. Everybody shoots at Jenners.

In a Jenner, you are The Legendary Golden Squirrel. Six medium lasers on a 35-ton jumping light is apparently at least three times as terrifying as the same 6xML on a 40-ton sub-medium. Anyone who can take a snapshot at you will do just that, people will chase Jenners for far longer than they’ll bother chasing a Cicada, and you are Target Priority 1 for any light-hunters on the enemy team. Combined with the Jenner’s awkward CT-with-feet hitboxes and lesser armor total than the Cicada, and you’ll be left wondering how dropping five tons of bulk, shrinking your hitboxes and adding jump jets somehow managed to halve your survivability.

That said, if you can get used to the vastly increased ‘SQUIRREL!’ reaction from the enemy team, as well as the Jenner’s more fragile nature, there isn’t really any better strike light in the game. I love my Firestarters, which I have mastered out – and I would also recommend the Firestarter as a very similar playstyle to the Jenner except MOARBEAMS – but the Jenner as a chassis is still the best fast-strike skirmisher in the game. A JR7-D(S) with 4x medium lasers and 2xSRM-4 is the most instantaneous firepower you’ll ever get out of a light ‘Mech. The JR7-F struggles to compete with Firestarters in the role of lightweight energy gunboat – it’s still an excellent machine, but the FS9 is just more of everything the JR7-F does – , but once you move from the JR7-F to the JR7-D, you’ll start to see some magic happening in the chassis.

[Spheroid]

The Firestarter rules all. Hex mlas always seemed to hot on lights in my opinion.

[Rogue Jedi]

The Cicada (CDA-3M and CDA-X5), Jenner (JR7-D) and Firestarter (FS9-E, FS9-S) are my favorite Mechs,

the Jenner is, in my opinion the perfect follow up mech from the Cicada, it has jumpjets and mounts missiles instead of Balistics but otherwise handles similarly to the Cicada just slightly faster and more maneuverable.

the Firestarter can mount more firepower at the expense of heat efficacy (the A and K can each mount 8 lasers) and a slight reduction in max possible speed, but had full arms which could be an advantage.

[ThatBum42]

Thanks everyone.

kburkhart84, on 28 April 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

I like the classic 6med laser one, but sometimes I feel like taking it slower and keeping distance and instead use a pair of ERLarge lasers.

My other Cicada does that. I'm aware of the PPC build for the 3M, but I didn't want to grind for a new engine, and this one turns out to be an effective spotter. I don't spread damage too much with the lasers because I have a variable sensitivity gaming mouse.

DONTOR, on 28 April 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I find your Cicadas lack of leg armor disturbing. You will get further in survivability if you lose the AMS max the leg armor, and add 2 points to your head armor. Then add an additional DHS, your fast enough that missles shouldnt effect you too much, and you can outrun all but the very fastest of streak boats.

Also I say add 2 points to your head because internal health is 15+16 armor = 31 points meaning a lucky Duall gauss or AC5PPC mix wont kill you in 1 shot.

I dunno bout that, I die to CT or ST destruction far more often than being legged. Which is odd, considering that the thing is like 80% leg, but I suppose it's because of the hillhumping.

Again, the AMS was a bit of a poor decision because it was my first build and I was ignorant then, but I'm sticking to my guns there. Though, I might consider taking it out and replacing it with more armor and a DHS. However, if this escapade into the world of Lights works out, I'm probably going to sell it to free up the mechbay.

Also, I've only ever been gauss'd in the face once in my ~800 matches (albeit all PUG matches). It was with my Blackjack, I think it was a lucky shot with a 3x gauss 4X or Illa.

DEMAX51, on 28 April 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

That build for the Jenner you posted looks pretty good, but here's a tip: cram as many heatsinks into your side torsos (along with your jumpjets, too) as you possibly can - only put heatsinks (or jump jets) in your Center Torso if you have absolutely no other choice. Reason being, in the Jenner your CT is going to take the brunt of your damage, and your Side Torsos will rarely be critically damaged. If you put your stuff in your CT it is FAR more likely to be destroyed by a critical strike, therefore, Side Torso is the better spot for it

Edit: And really learn to use those jump jets if you're not used to them.

Ah, I was trying to put them in the ST for the same reason. Derp. Dat jutting CT. :L

Can jumpjets even be destroyed, though? Either way they'd make good crit buffers for the heatsinks.

I am used to jumpjets from the aforementioned Blackjack, and also my A1. So no worries there.

1453 R, on 28 April 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

In a Jenner, you are The Legendary Golden Squirrel.

Yeah I have noticed this. But some good Jenner pilots seem to use this to their advantage, disrupting enemy formations and generally causing chaos. I could also work with other lights in a wolf pack. Many times I have seen a pack of Jenners charge around a corner and thought "Oh s*** Jenners from hell," then promptly ran in the opposite direction.

However, with my playstyle I hope I don't end up as the center of attention anyway.

Spheroid, on 28 April 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

The Firestarter rules all. Hex mlas always seemed to hot on lights in my opinion.

Yeh, I had a cursory look at the Firestarter, but I haven't really done any theorystomping on it yet. I'll get on that in a bit.

[Smokeyjedi]

FS9-K 6SL + 1LL(CT) is a vicious attack badger with half decent range......

[DEMAX51]

ThatBum42, on 28 April 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can jumpjets even be destroyed, though? Either way they'd make good crit buffers for the heatsinks.

Yup. They have 10 Health just like most pieces of equipment.

[ThatBum42]

Played with the Firestarter FS9-K in Smurfy. Unfortunately I can't build it exactly like the Jenner in the OP. There's an issue with critical slots because the max engine is 295, which has one heatsink slot, and the Jenner has a 300 which has two. Also, the Firestarter has lower arm actuators, which take two more slots.

[Hex Pallett]

Sir, the 6xML Jenner is GOD. I mastered it lately and basically dropped it to grind my Battlemaster, but even with half the skills locked, here's my stat:



EDIT: got more to say.

It has the speed, it has the agility, it has the highest Alpha that could breach the highest rear armor (I've yet to see anyone packing more than 30 armor in the rear anywhere). It has shoulder-high laser mounts to shoot from cover. You can backstab, you can leg-sweep, you can go full-Max Payne with it, and on cold maps - *smooch* *smooch* oh it's just the best. I named mine "Emerald Scythe".

Edited by Helmstif, 29 April 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[maniacos]

I just went full elite with my Jenner F and wow is that thing fast and agile. The only problem is, that you have to be careful not to stuck in obstacles when jumping away from an alpha of a heavier mech, but if one is able to react fluid in it, he will be quite a pita pilot to the enemies.

Edited by Jherek C, 07 May 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

As someone that went the same route, Jenners run hotter, but are harder to hit. While they look similar, the Firestarter is probably a better bet. I went from CDAs to Stalkers...now THAT was a fun transition...

Edited by Dawnstealer, 07 May 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[danneskold]

I was a Cicada pilot, and I liked the mech - I really want there to be a good place for the medium mech.

One day, I tried the Jenner. It was a whole new experience. Not because of the speed, the cicada had that - it was the JJ. JJ with speed adds a whole new dimension to the game, one which I can never turn back on now. I have some ground pounder mechs, but they just lack luster compared to the JJ lights. I still have harder time with slow JJ mechs, but lights and mediums with some speed - its just great! Its really something to have a JJ AC20 on your blackjack (which I did before the champ mech came out).

I would encourage you to try the jenner or the firestarter. the jenner will drive a lot like the cicada with regards to how the arms work, etc. The FS is again different, and have to adjust to the articulated arms, but both are great machines. The big edge is the JJ.

Because of the fun and abilty of the JJ, I almost never take out my cicadas. I dont regret it one minute. For the same reason, my hunchy is neglected for the blackjack. It is just another world.

I have little interest in a lot of the new clan mechs coming out...very few have any speed and JJ. Just let me retro clan tech into my jenny or FS!

JJ or bust!!!!