212 replies to this topic

[Sniper09121986]

pbiggz, on 16 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Dont badmouth the gargoyle, it's prime loadout is pretty boring but it's other loadouts are pretty beastly!

First, fix the link. Second, Gargoyle houses 21.5 tons of pod space vs 27.5 tons for Timber Wolf, has exactly the same speed, no JJ and a negligible advantage in armour. Now check http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Executioner Same amount of armour as a Banshee, which is not that far away from Atlas/Dire Wolf, 26.5 tons of pod space (just 1 ton less than Timber Wolf), JJ, 86 kph with MASC and all the way up to 100 with Supercharger in config F. The only weak point I see is a relative lack of missile options, but for these we already have Warhawk. And yes, it looks ugly too

[Pariah Devalis]

Executioner is the Clan Highlander. XD

26.5 tons of stock pod space, but comes stock slightly under armored iirc. Still, 24 tons goes a long way in a Clan mech.

Too bad it has MASC. Until PGI figures out how to make it play nice with HSR, no go on it. :\

[Edward Mattlov]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 July 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Executioner is the Clan Highlander. XD

26.5 tons of stock pod space, but comes stock slightly under armored iirc. Still, 24 tons goes a long way in a Clan mech.

Too bad it has MASC. Until PGI figures out how to make it play nice with HSR, no go on it. :\

The Executioner was considered the "epitome" of Clan technology at the time of the invasion.

[_Comrade_]

If they release the hell bringer then they will have all three of the prefered jade falcon mechs. Kit fox, summoner and hellbringer. Show us some CJF love PGI

Edited by Grimwill, 17 July 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[Edward Mattlov]

Info on the next Clan mech in NGNG #115!

http://www.reddit.co...5_russ_bullock/

[Pariah Devalis]

Edward Mattlov, on 17 July 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Info on the next Clan mech in NGNG #115!

http://www.reddit.co...5_russ_bullock/

Listening to it now. Incidentally, it includes a possible energy limit for gauss and ppc.

Edit: Next new chassis is IS.

Next SET of Clan Mechs involve the Mad Dog and Hellbringer. No ETA, but possibly before all the current 8 are released.

Reinforcement Package is not currently being considered... but they are interested to hear if people want it.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 July 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Keeshu]

DONTOR, on 17 July 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

As much as I like the Mad Dog, I would honestly rather have a Hellbringer, I love its hardpoints and available tonnage too much to pass it up.

But, but, but on Sarna it says the Ghost bears love using the Mad Dogs on the Ghost bear page and on the Mad Dog's page.
Also, the Mad Dog and Hellbringer are more similar than you might think. Also, they have the same customizable weapon tonnage if you just take off half a ton of armor off the Mad Dog. Hellbringer can do 3 builds that Mad Dog can't, and Mad Dog can do 1 build that Hellbringer can't, but it's basically missles vs Ballistics and/or energy at that point. The ECM (and AMS I guess) are the only real reasons to get the Hellbringer over the Mad Dog.

Copy pasta from the comparison topic I made in the general discussion (also the thread compares these two with Summoner + Timber Wolf)

Quote

Hellbringer vs Mad Dog
- Same weight class (heavy), Mad Dog is 60 tons, Hellbringer is 65
- They run the same speed
- Mad Dog has Ferro Fibrus, the Hellbringer does not
- Hellbringer can use ECM and AMS, Mad Dog cannot use either of these
- Mad Dog has .5 tons more armor than Hellbringer by default
- Hellbringer has 28.5 customizable weapon tonnage with 1 more hardwired heat sink, Mad Dog only has 28 customizable weapon tonnage

- The only build that Mad Dog can do that the Hellbringer cannot is that it can do more than 3 Missle weapons in a build. Also, it can have 2 Energy in each arm, whereas the Hellbringer needs to use the left torso if it wants to use more than 3 energy weapons.
- Because of Hellbringer B's arms, and A/Primes RT, Hellbringer can have more than 2 ballistic weapons. Prime Hellbringer already has 5 Energy hardpoints, 1 more than the Mad Dog. The head be swapped out for B's Head to have another energy hardpoint as well.

-Unlikely to be added, but here are the omnipods that would change things (ignoring timeline btw, and only caring about the category of weapon used). Mad Dog B or G's 3E RA, F's 2E RT and 2E LT, H's 3E LA. Hellbringer has a bunch to choose from.
RA: F's 1B 1E; D,E's 2E; G's 3E
RT: D's 2E
LT: D's 2E; H's 1M 4E

My Thoughts:
Overall the Mad Dog and Hellbringer can do a lot of the same things as each other. However, the Hellbringer is overall better because it has ECM. There's couple little things that make Hellbringer like having a head laser or head AMS, and that depending on how they design the Hellbringer it could be mistaken for a Hunchback.

Edited by Keeshu, 17 July 2014 - 04:18 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Keeshu, on 17 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

The ECM (and AMS I guess) are the only real reasons to get the Hellbringer over the Mad Dog.

Correction: The ECM is the reason to take the Hellbringer over the Mad Dog or the Timber Wolf (and the TImber Wolf basically does what the Mad Dog does... better). In case you were unaware, our current lineup of Clan mechs are very ECM light compared to the pickings. Plus, an ECM Hellbringer competes with Timber Wolf as the default heavy clan mech option out there.

[Keeshu]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Correction: The ECM is the reason to take the Hellbringer over the Mad Dog or the Timber Wolf (and the TImber Wolf basically does what the Mad Dog does... better). In case you were unaware, our current lineup of Clan mechs are very ECM light compared to the pickings. Plus, an ECM Hellbringer competes with Timber Wolf as the default heavy clan mech option out there.

I am aware of this.

Quote

Mad Dog vs Timber Wolf
- Same Weight class (heavy). Mad Dog 60 tons, Timber Wolf 75 tons
- They run at the same speed
- Timber Wolf has Endo Steel, Mad Dog does not
- Timber Wolf can use AMS, and Jumpjets, the Mad Dog cannot use either of these
- Timber Wolf has 3.5 more tons of armor by default
- Mad Dog has .5 more customizable weapon tonnage, but Timber Wolf has 3 more Hardwired Heat sinks (Mad Dog has 2, Timber Wolf has 5). However, due to Timber Wolf having more armor, it can just remove some to have more even more weapon tonnage than the Mad Dog

- The only build that Mad Dog can do that Timber Wolf can't is being a Splat Dog (6SRMs) thanks to Mad Dog A. However, Mad Dog C can have 1 Ballistic in each arm. The Timberwolf can only have it in the Right Arm thanks to Timber Wolf C, but the Timber Wolf S can have it in both side torsos. Making is so there can be a barely more efficient dual Ballistic build by using the arms on the Mad Dog.
- The Timber Wolf has many more options with hardpoints that the Mad Dog cannot do.
Prime: 1E1M LT, 1B CT, 1B 1M RT.
C: AMS + 1M LT, 1E CT.
S: 1B 2M LT, 1B 1E 2M RT

- Very unlikely to be added, but here are the omnipods that would change things (ignoring timeline btw). Timber Wolf A's 3E LT, Bounty Hunter's RT ECM, and Bounty Hunter 2's 1B 3M LT and RT. Mad Dog B or C's 3E RA, F's RT and LT, H's 3E


My thoughts:
Unless you plan on having a mad dog build with 6 SRM 6, prefer to have 1 Ballistic for each arm, or have a hybrid between the two, the Timber Wolf outclasses the Mad Dog in every way.
Mad Dog maybe smaller than the Timber Wolf, and we don't know how they are going to make the Mad Dog look yet, so they could be generous with the hit boxes on the Mad Dog. However, it will probably not be enough to keep up with the Timberwolf anyways.

At least the Mad Dog can have more Missles, or choose to have 1 ballistic for each arm (instead of having 1 in the arm and 1 in the side torso).
I'd rather have Mad Dog released before the Hellbringer unless they decide to think more upon how they are going to think more on quirks that will make the Mad Dog viable compared to Timber Wolf. In which case I'd rather have the Hellbringer in first because it's easier to be lazy with balance for it. Whatever the case is, whenever both are in, people will probably be picking Timber Wolf or Hellbringer more if they care more about meta than they do about piloting a mech they love.

[SolarCleric]

I couldn't agree more. I really would love to see the Warhammer or the Hellbringer into the game. Hopefully PGI can release it someday.

[Edward Mattlov]

Listened to the NGNG cast and the Hellbringer and Mad Dog are indeed confirmed! Victory!

[Keeshu]

Shouldn't be any surprise that they were going to be in the game. Incredibly popular mechs, both part of the original 16, they aren't unseen, and they can re-use the legs from Timber Wolf and Summoner. Though I guess it's always nice to have confirmation though.

[Edward Mattlov]

SolarCleric, on 17 July 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I couldn't agree more. I really would love to see the Warhammer or the Hellbringer into the game. Hopefully PGI can release it someday.

The Warhammer will never be in the game in any form that resembles the original, Harmony Gold holds a death grip on the rights, not even an obscene amount of money could buy them. I am not rich in currency, however, so my idea of obscene, may not be unreasonable to someone else.

Edited by Edward Mattlov, 18 July 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[Dirgez]

I don't think comparing the Timber Wolf with the Mad Dog gives any real meaning. Both are icons of the Mechwarrior franchise and leaving either of them out of MWO due to data points would be near disastrous.

Personally I would prefer a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf... Mad Dog has a smaller silhouette, harder to hit at long distance. Plus the cockpit is in the highest position which makes peeking for contacts less of a risk.

Edited by WM Dirges, 18 July 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Edward Mattlov, on 17 July 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Listened to the NGNG cast and the Hellbringer and Mad Dog are indeed confirmed! Victory!

Aff, It makes me happy.

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 July 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Listening to it now. Incidentally, it includes a possible energy limit for gauss and ppc.

Edit: Next new chassis is IS.

Next SET of Clan Mechs involve the Mad Dog and Hellbringer. No ETA, but possibly before all the current 8 are released.

Reinforcement Package is not currently being considered... but they are interested to hear if people want it.

After the 8 remaining "starter" omnimechs, the "Reinforcement Pack":

Arctic Cheetah (older design, signature Smoke Jaguar mech), Shadow Cat (iconic), Ebon Jaguar (iconic, signature Smoke Jaguar mech) and Kingfisher (very old design - and a rare 90 tons Clanner).

(the last, less known, omnimechs used in the early invasion)

Edited by Odanan, 18 July 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Odanan, on 18 July 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

After the 8 remaining "starter" omnimechs, the "Reinforcement Pack":

Arctic Cheetah (older design, signature Smoke Jaguar mech), Shadow Cat (iconic), Ebon Jaguar (iconic, signature Smoke Jaguar mech) and Kingfisher (very old design - and a rare 90 tons Clanner).

(the last, less known, omnimechs used in the early invasion)

Change Shadowcat for Huntsman. MASC being problematic, Huntsman is a better Medium from Clan Nova Cat. Love your choices otherwise.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 July 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 18 July 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Change Shadowcat for Huntsman. MASC being problematic, Huntsman is a better Medium from Clan Nova Cat. Love your choices otherwise.

But if they are releasing the Fire Moth and the Executioner, the MASC in Shadowcat won't be a problem.

[Pariah Devalis]

Odanan, on 18 July 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

But if they are releasing the Fire Moth and the Executioner, the MASC in Shadowcat won't be a problem.

Big if. As of yet, they have refused to comment on the status of MASC. Executioner and Fire Moth are all reliant on MASC working. Meanwhile, the other 3050 mechs like the Ice Ferret, Mist Lynx, Viper, Gargoyle, Mad Dog, and Hellbringer do not have MASC, so are logical next mechs.

Shadowcat and Ebon Jaguar are 3055 mechs so are a later release.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 July 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Odanan]

BTW, Mad Dog/Vulture can do well in the game if it has great hitboxes.