47 replies to this topic

[Bulletsponge0]

Flaming oblivion, on 14 May 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Yes I am when the only thing stopping anyone else is LoS of course they'll straight out beat me in a LoS battle and theyre weapons have no counters, I'm outclassed in a LoS fight , And the only dude that has multiple counters with crappy counters to deal with said counters . Its bs . I may not be articulating well but theres a reason you rarely see lrms in competitive play.

Sounds more like a weakness of the loadout/mech you choose instead of an OP of ECM

[LastPaladin]

Bulletsponge0, on 14 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Most things in MW:O are extremely risky to use...you have to expose yourself...

So, carry that logic to its conclusion and you have the solution for ECM. To cloak only yourself, it should be low-risk, but to cloak your team, the ECM-carrying mech should become uncloaked (and uncloakable by other ECM mechs).

With that change, you have a toggle system where one mech can get an advantage for themselves just paying the tonnage and slot tax, but if they want to protect the group, they would have to take additional risk and make themselves the prime target.

[Hellcat420]

id like to know where the pod mounted jumpjets are.

[Flaming oblivion]

Nothing wrong with my builds or mechs Lrms simply cant compete with ecm and meta . that simple really, In certain situations you may beat a meta pugging with lrms , But he'd have to be a complete moron .

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Flaming oblivion, on 14 May 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Yes I am when the only thing stopping anyone else is LoS of course they'll straight out beat me in a LoS battle and theyre weapons have no counters, I'm outclassed in a LoS fight , And the only dude that has multiple counters with crappy counters to deal with said counters . Its bs . I may not be articulating well but theres a reason you rarely see lrms in competitive play.

LRMs aren't competive because they're damage over time weapons.

You can take 12 missile boats and park them in a firing line 950 meters away from 12 meta builds in a firing line. In the time it takes for the LRM boats to focus fire and actually hit 1 mech, they've lost 3. LRM boats can't even reliably torso twist to spread damage without severely decreasing their DPS while the FLD mechs can easily twist, spread damage and keep their DPS going full bore.

Working as intended, because that's how they work in TT as well. They're support weapons.

[Spike Brave]

To answer the question they cannot mount ecm. If you go to the Clan Collection page and mouse over the image it list the mechs stats. They all ecm capable no.

[EgoSlayer]

Xeraphale, on 14 May 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

Does anybody know what has been said regarding what components will and can be included in Omni-Pods?

I know Omni-Pods will include the usual missile/laser/ballistic weapon slots but will they have specific ECM/BAP Pods too and if so, will they be available to only a select few mechs?

I ask as in theory any clan mech could have them, potentially and in the TT game a clan mech could chop and change any item they wanted, weight and slots constraints not withstanding.

Cheers

And this is why none of the Clan Mechs will get ECM. ECM is a slot on one of the omni pods. We can swap omni pods across any variant. So if any one variant gets ECM, they *all* get ECM by virtue of a pod swap.
So yes you can see that many of the possible variants of the clan pack mechs have ECM pods - I'll bet 1000 Internet points that PGI doesn't make those as either of the two non-prime versions.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 14 May 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Xeraphale]

EgoSlayer, on 14 May 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

And this is why none of the Clan Mechs will get ECM. ECM is a slot on one of the omni pods. We can swap omni pods across any variant. So if any one variant gets ECM, they *all* get ECM by virtue of a pod swap.
So yes you can see that many of the possible variants of the clan pack mechs have ECM pods - I'll bet 1000 Internet points that PGI doesn't make those as either of the two non-prime versions.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that we could buy pods in adition to those which come with the Prime, A and B variants and I was hoping that these pods would have a significant difference to those available on the chassis.

I see the lack of ECM being a bit of a nightmare for the clan mechs as any of the clan mechs which get ECM in canon won't be available for a while yet. I was hoping that the Kit Fox might have an optional Omni-Pod to buy seperately as the C varient gets ECM.

[Jenkss]

As someone above posted.

They recently updated the clans page.

Mousing over the mechs reveals that none are ecm capable.

[Grimmrog]

Mcgral18, on 14 May 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

The the Nova U, but the only way we'd get that is piece by piece.

I swear when thsi happens, just epic.

sneak behind an opponent, give him 5 lasers, 5 lasers again, and an alpha. Just to end as a supernova since your heatlevel then may reach like 300% by firing 12 lasers in one alpha.#


also it would nto be that unbalanced. imagine the Nova U variant would have the ECM in the center torso, as a downside, that Nova oculd be made without JJ's Or slower.

Then you can do this by havign soem disadvantages. Same goes for other of the Omnimechs. if PGI does "glue" the ECM to the Centertorso.
imagine the Timberwolf would get an ECM but this Timberwolf would not have Endo Steel structure. The downside to the non ECM Timberwolf would be a lower tonnage available for weapons, no matter what other pods you would use.

Edited by Grimmrog, 15 May 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Jenkss, on 15 May 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

As someone above posted.

They recently updated the clans page.

Mousing over the mechs reveals that none are ecm capable.

I don't see the other variants listed? Everyone knows that all of those primes never had ECM.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm glad theres no ecm for clans they'd have to fix it first.

[Onmyoudo]

EgoSlayer, on 14 May 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

And this is why none of the Clan Mechs will get ECM. ECM is a slot on one of the omni pods. We can swap omni pods across any variant. So if any one variant gets ECM, they *all* get ECM by virtue of a pod swap.
So yes you can see that many of the possible variants of the clan pack mechs have ECM pods - I'll bet 1000 Internet points that PGI doesn't make those as either of the two non-prime versions.

Unless it's on a chassis CT, as they aren't swappable pods.

[Bulletsponge0]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 14 May 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

LRMs aren't competive because they're damage over time weapons.

You can take 12 missile boats and park them in a firing line 950 meters away from 12 meta builds in a firing line. In the time it takes for the LRM boats to focus fire and actually hit 1 mech, they've lost 3. LRM boats can't even reliably torso twist to spread damage without severely decreasing their DPS while the FLD mechs can easily twist, spread damage and keep their DPS going full bore.

Working as intended, because that's how they work in TT as well. They're support weapons.

exactly my thoughts....they aren't meant to be primary weapons, artillery (in real life) isn't a primary weapon..its an area denial weapon (when firing FASCAM), used to destroy soft targets, and used to soften entrenched enemy position prior to friendly advance...

But the only real problem I have with the in game LRMs is the flight paths..from high arcing shots that turn down at near 90 degree angles to shots that arc out, dive down and terrain hug until they are on target....the flight mechanic is just wrong IMO (they are not "OP" as far as doing too much damage, although the spread should be greater)...

right now, the flight paths make the in game LRMs more like conventional cruise missiles than an upgraded MLRS system..

[Flaming oblivion]

Bulletsponge0, on 15 May 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

exactly my thoughts....they aren't meant to be primary weapons, artillery (in real life) isn't a primary weapon..its an area denial weapon (when firing FASCAM), used to destroy soft targets, and used to soften entrenched enemy position prior to friendly advance...

But the only real problem I have with the in game LRMs is the flight paths..from high arcing shots that turn down at near 90 degree angles to shots that arc out, dive down and terrain hug until they are on target....the flight mechanic is just wrong IMO (they are not "OP" as far as doing too much damage, although the spread should be greater)...

right now, the flight paths make the in game LRMs more like conventional cruise missiles than an upgraded MLRS system..

My problem is the only time lrms go from garbage to semi decent is when in a premade , And even then you need a spotter , So its taking 2 people to be effective , and still be outclassed by a meta build in almost all situations , LRM's are garbage.

[Bulletsponge0]

Flaming oblivion, on 15 May 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

My problem is the only time lrms go from garbage to semi decent is when in a premade , And even then you need a spotter , So its taking 2 people to be effective , and still be outclassed by a meta build in almost all situations , LRM's are garbage.

once again..sounds like a weakness in your mech/loadout...since LRMs and meta builds fill vastly different roles on the battlefield

and EVERYTHING works better when in a premade v. PUGs...just like LRMs, even meta builds lose effectiveness when played against experienced, coordinated players compared to inexperienced PUGs that wander around the map

Seems like you want LRMs to be as pinpoint damage effective as meta builds, and thats NOT what LRMs are designed for...you're asking to get something out of a weapon system that the weapon sstem simply cannot do

[Rogue Jedi]

Spike Brave, on 14 May 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

To answer the question they cannot mount ecm. If you go to the Clan Collection page and mouse over the image it list the mechs stats. They all ecm capable no.

Unfortunately it is not that simple, the prime varients of all Clan pack mechs are not ECM capable, this does not mean that the alternate varients will not be ECM capable, then unless the ECM is CT/head/leg mounted it could theoreticaly be transfered to another mech.
also we still do not know what varients/pods will be available on release/included with the package

Xeraphale, on 15 May 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

I'm sure that I read somewhere that we could buy pods in adition to those which come with the Prime, A and B variants

http://mwomercs.com/...d-construction/

theabove link is to a command chair post about how omnimechs will likely be implimented, it says you may be able to buy pods, but as far as I know it has not yet been mentioned which varients will come with the pack, we know we are getting prime and it seems logical to include the A + B variants but PGI have not always taken the most logical or expediant path

LastPaladin, on 14 May 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

So, carry that logic to its conclusion and you have the solution for ECM. To cloak only yourself, it should be low-risk, but to cloak your team, the ECM-carrying mech should become uncloaked (and uncloakable by other ECM mechs).

With that change, you have a toggle system where one mech can get an advantage for themselves just paying the tonnage and slot tax, but if they want to protect the group, they would have to take additional risk and make themselves the prime target.

the problem with that idea is what when 2 or more ECM mechs drop together, if all go for team cloak we would be back to the origional issue.the only work around I can think of is to add some nonsense along the lines of team cloak uses so much power the mech becomes impossible to cloak, but in MechMarrior power draw is directly related to heat so for this to seem realistic team cloak would also have to generate a lot of heat or possibly disable weapons/stop weapons charging while the mech is moving/slow the mech down

[LastPaladin]

Rogue Jedi, on 15 May 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

the problem with that idea is what when 2 or more ECM mechs drop together, if all go for team cloak we would be back to the origional issue.

Well, under my idea, you can't cloak yourself and the team at the same time. Cloaking yourself would be a passive interference, so undetectable, but cloaking the team would be active interference, which would make it impossible to cloak your own mech (or to be cloaked by another ECM mech).

[Malcolm Vordermark]

EgoSlayer, on 14 May 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

And this is why none of the Clan Mechs will get ECM. ECM is a slot on one of the omni pods. We can swap omni pods across any variant. So if any one variant gets ECM, they *all* get ECM by virtue of a pod swap.
So yes you can see that many of the possible variants of the clan pack mechs have ECM pods - I'll bet 1000 Internet points that PGI doesn't make those as either of the two non-prime versions.

Well they have stated that they may restrict certain omni pods to only work with certain CTs. So it is entirely possible they could keep ECM to one mech out of the bunch.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Rouken, on 22 May 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Well they have stated that they may restrict certain omni pods to only work with certain CTs. So it is entirely possible they could keep ECM to one mech out of the bunch.

This. I'm fairly certain the Clans will have some mechs able to mount ECM via omnipods. The question is will all of them be able to do it (and thus necessitate a balance pass on ECM as a whole), or limit to specific chassis types. Quite a few of the mechs in the Clan pack do indeed have ECM alternate configs.

One of the primary points of Clan mechs that DO mount ECM, also mount BAP. MWO handles their functionality differently than TT, which implies they'll have to revisit how ECM/BAP work given many Clan mechs have BAP built in.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 22 May 2014 - 08:26 PM.