78 replies to this topic

[Kyle Wright]

So I know there is a lot of complaining already, but hear me out.
I feel the clan mechs are going to be dead on arrival. After seeing the latest Summoner picks its going to suffer from Hunchback syndrome. That missile Pod is begging to be stripped and the lack of weapons is hilarious. I also worry about the Cockpit being to easy to head cap via PPC and LRM fire.


I preferred the MW4 variant because the head seemed more protected and the weapons loadout was nice. Though it had a wide center torso.



I wont even get into the whole debacle about the Clan Lights and the Madcat.

Will somone reassure me that the clan mechs wont end up just looking pretty?

[mogs01gt]

Unless you are a jump jet or Thor fanatic, there is no reason to use it over the Wolf.
Pics
http://mwomercs.com/...mmoner-revealed

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Khobai]

while a definite improvement over the thor, even the timber wolf is pretty meh. its side torsos are easy to pick out because of the missile pods. but also its firepower isnt all that great proportional to its tonnage. the 60 ton maddog (vulture) actually carries more weapons than the timber wolf. many of the clan mechs suffer from having oversized engines which arnt particularly efficient usage of their tonnage.

Edited by Khobai, 15 May 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

while a definite improvement over the thor, even the timber wolf is pretty meh. its side torsos are easy to pick out because of the missile pods. but also its firepower isnt all that great proportional to its tonnage. the 60 ton maddog (vulture) actually carries more weapons than the timber wolf. many of the clan mechs suffer from having oversized engines which arnt particularly efficient usage of their tonnage.

The Wolf will be the same thing as a Pult but will brawl better.

[Creovex]

I love the Thor / Summoner traditionally....

At the same time, I already got the IS version... the Thunderbolt hehe....

[Ngamok]

If you think the Summoner suffers from Hunchback syndrome, so then does the Thunderbolt and the Griffin (though not as pronounced but still pretty tall). You could say the same about the Banshee 3S unless there is an LRM10 or LRM5 there.

[Khobai]

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The Wolf will be the same thing as a Pult but will brawl better.

Worse. Because the Catapults missile pods are at least its arms. The Timber Wolfs are its side torsos. So destroying its missile pod also takes out the arm too. The Timber Wolf has some very bad geometry that will make it not so great at brawling. The Timberwolf is mostly going to have to engage at long range and make use of its speed for flanking.

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If you think the Summoner suffers from Hunchback syndrome, so then does the Thunderbolt and the Griffin

Yeah but no ones ever accused the Thunderbolt or Griffin of being good. The Thor on the other hand would be quite scary if clan tech wasnt nerfed so badly. With nerfed clan tech its going to be a joke though.

Edited by Khobai, 15 May 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Unless you are a jump jet or Thor fanatic, there is no reason to use it over the Wolf.

1. Jump jets.
2. Not a Timberwolf, and therefore my inner hipster, down with the establishment, stay away from the most popular tat which is never as good as advertised feeling is satisfied.
3. Arm mounted balistic for maximum brawling arc of fire.
4. Doesn't have both FF armor and Endo Steel. You should have room for lots of heat sinks
5. Asymetrical cockpit, making it's profile unique.
6. Primary heavy for the Jade Falcons, and they're NOT the Wolf clan, which is the point.

There, that is five-six reasons already.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 15 May 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

while a definite improvement over the thor, even the timber wolf is pretty meh. its side torsos are easy to pick out because of the missile pods. but also its firepower isnt all that great proportional to its tonnage. the 60 ton maddog (vulture) actually carries more weapons than the timber wolf. many of the clan mechs suffer from having oversized engines which arnt particularly efficient usage of their tonnage.

I think you're wrong about the Timber Wolf/Madcat.

It has a little over 82 tons worth of equipment, so that XL 375 is basically a free upgrade from a 325 Engine with those free extra 7 tons.

It's going to move near 90 kph with speed tweak.


An Orion that wants to run a STD engine could only get a STD 300 for the same tonnage as that 375 XL.





Its going to have the firepower of an assault with the speed of the faster IS Heavies and even some Medium mechs.

Some of the clan prime variants will be DoA. Maybe fewer still will be viable for 12 man competitive teams.

The Madcat however is going to be exceptionally strong in standard/casual public queue games imo.

[Khobai]

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It has a little over 82 tons worth of equipment, so that XL 375 is basically a free upgrade from a 325 Engine with those free extra 7 tons.

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Its going to have the firepower of an assault with the speed of the faster IS Heavies and even some Medium mechs.

It has 27.5 tons of pod space. I dont know any assault that only has 27.5 tons of weapons.

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An Orion that wants to run a STD engine could only get a STD 300 for the same tonnage as that 375 XL.

Orions have good geometry for running XL engines. They always get hit in the center torso. An Orion also doesnt need to run a 375 XL engine. If an Orion runs a 325-350 XL engine, it can still go over 75-80kph, and have way more tonnage for weapons/ammo than the Timber Wolf.

[Zack Esseth]

I think you are underestimating the Thor and the proposed Omni mechanic. Wile we don't have any clue to the other variants that will come available at drop, there are some promising variants of the Thor and a number of the others in our timeline. And what makes you think the launcher will stay when the missile launcher is removed. Of all the new mechs to come out, not one of them retaints the drum when the hard point is empty.

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Orions have good geometry for running XL engines. They always get hit in the center torso. An Orion also doesnt need to run a 375 XL engine. If an Orion runs a 325-350 XL engine, it can still go over 75-80kph, and have way more tonnage for weapons/ammo than the Timber Wolf.

You must not have played an Orion of recently. Rarely do I finish a drop with both side torsos intact let alone one. I have been as low as 11% health and to run an XL would be suicide since the hit box fix for the Orion. It has become an under armored, Light Atlas. It is still fun to play though.

[Curccu]

Creovex, on 15 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

I love the Thor / Summoner traditionally....

At the same time, I already got the IS version... the Thunderbolt hehe....

NO NO NO NO NO! NOT same!
I love Thor and hate TB

[Khobai]

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You must not have played an Orion of recently. Rarely do I finish a drop with both side torsos intact let alone one. I have been as low as 11% health and to run an XL would be suicide since the hit box fix for the Orion. It has become an under armored, Light Atlas. It is still fun to play though.

That hasnt been my experience. I always get cored out in the CT. But the Orion has never really been all that great of a mech for other reasons (lack of jumpjets for example). Its always been overshadowed by the Victor. Theres literally no reason not to play a Victor instead. So comparing the Mad Cat to the Victor probably makes more sense (since 3/3/3/3 is nowhere on the horizon).

The point is the Mad Cat doesnt have the firepower of an Assault. It has less firepower than most 65 tonners in point of fact. A standard Jager build like x3 AC5, x2 ML carries 30+ tons of weapons/ammo. Because of their tonnage being diverted to absurdly large engines, the Thor/Madcat are going to be very underarmed for their tonnage. Once the Loki comes out it will probably replace the Madcat as the main clan heavy simply because it carries more firepower as well as ECM.

Edited by Khobai, 15 May 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[KharnZor]

How about we wait till they are released before declaring it DOA.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

It has 27.5 tons of pod space. I dont know any assault that only has 27.5 tons of weapons.

You don't know any IS assaults using lower tonnage Clan weapons either.

Go ahead and fit that 27.5 tons +17 DHS as well, and a 375 engine, on the lighter assaults that very tight fit (and maybe not even possible, would need to work it out in smurfy's).

Not to mention that some of the most effective assault builds in the game only run around around 30 tons total weapons - like the Misery with AC 20 2x PPC or 2x ER LLAS / LLAS etc. Or Victor builds with 30 tons of 2x AC 5 / 2x PPC.

So "27.5" if that's accurate is not only close, but dead on due to lower tonnage of clan weapons.

"More" weapons doesn't necessarily mean "better".

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Orions have good geometry for running XL engines. They always get hit in the center torso.

I'll take your word for it, as I don't play Orions. They always seem really slow when I come across them so I assumed STD engines.

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

An Orion also doesnt need to run a 375 XL engine. If an Orion runs a 325-350 XL engine, it can still go over 75-80kph, and have way more tonnage for weapons/ammo than the Timber Wolf.

The Madcat would still be faster.


Let's do some math, shall we?

460 Armor with Endo but no FF since the Orion couldn't even pull that off (insufficient slots to mount all of these weapons & DHS + XL) = 18.4 Tons
350 XL = 22 tons
2x ER LLAS = 10 Tons
2x MLAS = 2 Tons
1x MPL = 2 Tons
2x LRM 20 = 20 Tons
2x MG = 1 Ton
7 Extra DHS = 7 Tons
Assume total 3 tons LRM ammo, 1 ton MG ammo

Total Tonnage = around 85 tons (ammo might be off)

Too heavy for the Orion.

Drop down to a 325? (-3 tons)

82 tons or so.

Still too heavy.



The Madcat is going to be plenty dangerous.


(P.S. Tonnage dedicated to weapons in the above example = 35 Tons
not including ammo and not including the 7 extra external DHS).

Edited by Ultimatum X, 15 May 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Roadkill]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

The point is the Mad Cat doesnt have the firepower of an Assault. It has less firepower than most 65 tonners in point of fact. A standard Jager build like x3 AC5, x2 ML carries 30+ tons of weapons/ammo.

Sure, but the 27.5 tons that the MadCat carries are Clan tons. Fill those 27.5 tons with Clan weapons and it will easily out-gun AND out-run a Jaegermech.

[Blue Boutique]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

The point is the Mad Cat doesnt have the firepower of an Assault. It has less firepower than most 65 tonners in point of fact. A standard Jager build like x3 AC5, x2 ML carries 30+ tons of weapons/ammo. Because of their tonnage being diverted to absurdly large engines, the Thor/Madcat are going to be very underarmed for their tonnage. Once the Loki comes out it will probably replace the Madcat as the main clan heavy simply because it carries more firepower as well as ECM.

With Clan XL engines requiring two sections to be destroyed and if the missile pods can be removed, it will be much tougher than the IS Assaults if we could replace the MG with UACs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

while a definite improvement over the thor, even the timber wolf is pretty meh. its side torsos are easy to pick out because of the missile pods. but also its firepower isnt all that great proportional to its tonnage. the 60 ton maddog (vulture) actually carries more weapons than the timber wolf. many of the clan mechs suffer from having oversized engines which arnt particularly efficient usage of their tonnage.

more weapons seldom mean more firepower. Gotta be able to use those guns. Also the TWolf has 150% the armor of a MadDag, yet moves the same speed.

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Worse. Because the Catapults missile pods are at least its arms. The Timber Wolfs are its side torsos. So destroying its missile pod also takes out the arm too. The Timber Wolf has some very bad geometry that will make it not so great at brawling. The Timberwolf is mostly going to have to engage at long range and make use of its speed for flanking.



Yeah but no ones ever accused the Thunderbolt or Griffin of being good. The Thor on the other hand would be quite scary if clan tech wasnt nerfed so badly. With nerfed clan tech its going to be a joke though.

No one ever accuse the Griffin of being good? Lol. Yeah, you obviously don't know Mediums. It is not quite the ride a ShadowHawk is, but it's a bloody phenomenal chassis... if a person knows how to use it.

[CoffiNail]

KharnZor, on 15 May 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

How about we wait till they are released before declaring it DOA.

Yep.

[Pygar]

Hans Von Lohman, on 15 May 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

1. Jump jets.

Khobai, on 15 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

It has 27.5 tons of pod space. I dont know any assault that only has 27.5 tons of weapons.

So.... it has JJets, enough tonnage to mount a couple PPCs and a medium sized cannon, plus the other benefits that it gets just for being a Clan mech- but some of you guys are worried that the Thor is going to be DOA?

(*looks at all the forum threads complaining about Jump Snipers fit with PPC/AC combos )