For me you are blowing smoke here!
i7 4770k will support up to 1600MHz DDR3 ... same like previous 4670!
It's only a refresh - not a new architecture!
Gee that's funny, because my friend is now running 2400 MHz RAM with no issue, enabled the XMP profile in Bios.. Where's the smoke..?? A 4770K can fairly easily run DRAM up to around 2800 with a slight OC, many can handle 3000 MHz Ram. http://www.guru3d.co..._review,20.html its capable of 2133 without an OC. That's because intel's idea anything over 1600 is an OC of the memory. Once you enable XMP it will simply put the voltage to 1.65v, or whatever the RAM is rated to run at for the speeds indicated on the RAM. With AMD CPUs it's different, you have to tweak the memory yourself in a more in depth fashion.. My Phenom II x6 1100t is running Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 2000 MHZ at 1978 MHZ 9-10-9-25 at the moment, and i'm only supposed to run 1333 MHz or 1600 MHz right..?? Considering all most people have to do that CAN enable XMP profile, is to simply click one setting in bios and hit F10 and save, I would say the smoke is definitely not blowing from my camp.. YOU might want to look into that CHIEF. EDIT: anything over 2133 will probably require a slight bump in voltage for the CPU (4770k), but watching it literally take 30 seconds in bios to accomplish, i'd say just about anyone can do it, as long as they read just a little about it on Tom's or Overclockers.net.. As long as your Mobo supports XMP profiles and the type of RAM (MHz) you buy, that's easy enough to see as well, just look at the Qualified Vendors List (QVL) on the manufacturers website. Have a swell day..!!!
You Just Dont Get It! Still a lot of smoke around you! :-)
It makes no difference how fast your RAM is, if the CPU can feed your RAM with a speed of 1600 MHz only!
You can NOT OC the RAM controller of an Intel i-Processor. The only difference / bennefit with the hi-end RAM it the faster self-refresh rate. That gives you at least 5% für usual operations ... for what? ... twice of price?
If you put a 100 PH engine inside a Lamborghini ... you wan't be automaticaly enabled to drive 250 mph!
But having better ball bearing, tires and car shape you might get the same 5% boost! ^^
Your test reference shows a read-boost of 29% and write-boost of 17% from 1600 to 2400 on this special 4770K ... some other 4770k with a less good memory controller might give you only 15%/10% ... and again for more than twice of the price!!!
If you compare 1600 to 2133 with 3960X - so there is a gain of less than 2%.
I think you need a littel more time for reading Tom's properly - sorry! :-D
I have an extremely dated computer atm (a core 2 duo at about 2.9GHz) + 2GB 800 RAM + 1GB DDR3 Graphics card... Been making some kind of magic to be able to play at around 20FPS on large maps and 15-18 on small foggy ones.
But my eyes are begging for something better (smoother).
I have looked around and tried my best to get a low-cost (around 600€) new rig.
Would like to know what you guys think about it.
MB - ASROCK B85 PRO4
CPU - Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz 6MB
Power - Corsair CX Series CX750M
RAM - DDR3 HyperX 8GB 1600MHz Non-ECC CL9 (1 slot)
HDD - SSD Samsung 2.5" 840 Evo 120GB
The graphics card will be purchased later in the year (probably close to Christmas to get some nice deals).
So, what do you guys think? Are there better options without spending too much? Are these components good enough to enjoy the graphics a bit more and get a smoother gameplay experience?
Cheers,
FlipOver
Edit - Forgot to mention my tower Coolermaster Silencio 452 but that wont help or harm much on the gameplay experience...
No GFX card? what?
The GPU is the most important factor toward FPS, followed by the CPU, which is more or less dependent on how "CPU heavy" the game is coded.
A quad-core for sure for MWO and IMHO, a Nvidia GTX X60 series card or GREATER unless you are heavily strapped for cash.
AMD/ATI is always another cheaper option.
Odins Fist, on 19 May 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:
Gee that's funny, because my friend is now running 2400 MHz RAM with no issue, enabled the XMP profile in Bios.. Where's the smoke..?? A 4770K can fairly easily run DRAM up to around 2800 with a slight OC, many can handle 3000 MHz Ram. http://www.guru3d.co..._review,20.html its capable of 2133 without an OC. That's because intel's idea anything over 1600 is an OC of the memory. Once you enable XMP it will simply put the voltage to 1.65v, or whatever the RAM is rated to run at for the speeds indicated on the RAM. With AMD CPUs it's different, you have to tweak the memory yourself in a more in depth fashion.. My Phenom II x6 1100t is running Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 2000 MHZ at 1978 MHZ 9-10-9-25 at the moment, and i'm only supposed to run 1333 MHz or 1600 MHz right..?? Considering all most people have to do that CAN enable XMP profile, is to simply click one setting in bios and hit F10 and save, I would say the smoke is definitely not blowing from my camp.. YOU might want to look into that CHIEF. EDIT: anything over 2133 will probably require a slight bump in voltage for the CPU (4770k), but watching it literally take 30 seconds in bios to accomplish, i'd say just about anyone can do it, as long as they read just a little about it on Tom's or Overclockers.net.. As long as your Mobo supports XMP profiles and the type of RAM (MHz) you buy, that's easy enough to see as well, just look at the Qualified Vendors List (QVL) on the manufacturers website. Have a swell day..!!!
i7 4770k here running @ 4.5ghz with 8GB corsair dominator platinum @ 2133 MHz
XMP profile as ^above posted stated, no issues
FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:
Wow I'm so glad I started this topic. Ca't believe the things i'm learning. Thank you!
About the cooling, didn't think about it since the tower I'm getting has a greater cooling effect than most towers on the market. Also I'm not thinking about overclocking anything for the first few months at least.
Why? Should I?
Overclocking helps for sure, the effects on FPS can be 5-10 or negligible (aka not noticeable).
However it's more psychological to know your getting the most perf. out your computer and it's rather fun and the PC looks more aesthetic with a water cooler IMHO.
While i heartily disagree with it being sensible (Well, in this case at least), the integrated memory controller does in fact go beyond its rated value (Otherwise there would be no gains for IGPs on 1866MT/s, when in fact there are substantial gains which are bandwidth related )
Don't wait. Either get a 2x4GB kit now, or a 2x8GB kit now.
When pairing memory, you want it as close to identical as possible, and kits are usually tested together.
If you're tight on money, throttling down the PSU and getting more memory should be fine (a 600W PSU is good till you get to running dual video cards, and even then it might be OK), but a higher power PSU is still more efficient under less draw, so it's never bad to have more than enough power.
Still, get the extra ram chip now. It's a pretty big deal.
I second (or third) this. You'll want two sticks from the same kit. It's like the "don't combine different battery brands" suggestion only it actually matters a lot more. Plus it'll just save frustration if/when you chose to get another stick if you don't remember the clock speed of the original stick.
I believe you'll need Windows 7 Pro or higher to use more than 4GB, but don't quote me on that. If you get 16GB, your new system will create an equal sized pagefile to match. You definitely won't want to waste 16GB on your SSD. Instructions on how to change your pagefile are in the last link below.
Couple things about the build:
-I've had a couple computers myself, and I've learned that if you can spring the $$$ for the fastest/higher quality/best rated parts, you really should. In this respect, I'd recommend going straight for an i7 and 16GB of RAM. I have GSkill Ripjaw RAM and it hasn't failed me after three years.
-750w PSU seems fine for future-proofing your rig should you want upgrades.
-I'd go with an aftermarket CPU cooler:
-The Corsair H100i Liquid CPU cooler. The term liquid cooling scares a lot of people away, but this is probably the simplest solution out there, it is just as easy as putting a fan in.
-If you're going to go with a fan, the Hyper212 is great, and kept my CPu cool for many years.
Any thoughts on a case? I recommend the Corsair obsidian series, but they're a bit pricy. Depends if you want that alien spaceship look, that business look, or that "I'm just going to stuff this away where no one can see it anyway, and it doesn't matter"-look.
Also, when it comes to motherboards, avoid Marvell SATA controllers like the plague.
That ASRock board doesn't seem to list what the controllers are.
Here are some immensely helpful links:
Newegg TV's "How To Build a Computer" Series (I knew quite a fair bit about building PC's even before I watched these, yet they are still worth the time, even if it's just to go over everything)
eXtreme PSU Power Calculator (to see how big of a supply you'll need, although going over by a bit never hurts, and accommodates for future upgrades you may do) http://extreme.outer...culatorlite.jsp
I believe you'll need Windows 7 Pro or higher to use more than 4GB, but don't quote me on that. If you get 16GB, your new system will create an equal sized pagefile to match. You definitely won't want to waste 16GB on your SSD. Instructions on how to change your pagefile are in the last link below.
Any 64 bit OS can handle more than 4 GB without an issue. Home Premium is fine for most people.
Not sure if you already have the case or not, so I made this one without case or GPU: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3NB3x (No Europe PcPartPicker I'm aware of, figured UK might be the closest so used that)
I5-3570K (3.4GHz Unlocked Quad Core)
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (One of if the The Best Air CPU Coolers)
Asus P8Z77-V LX (Z77 is King for the Generation of CPU If I'm not Mistaken)
Kingston Beast 2x4GB DDR3-1866 RAM (Duel Channel at 1866MHz)
Intel 530 Series 120GB SSD (from what I looked up one time before, Intel is the SSD King)
EVGA SuperNOVA 750W 80+ Gold Fully Modular Power Supply (80+ Gold is a good thing and fully modular would help for cable management)
Cost: 455.34 Pounds (559.39 Euro, $836.19 Canadian, $766.79 US, 828.70 AUD)
a Edited Version to add a Case: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3NC9F
I5-4460 (3.2GHz Locked Quad Core, Locked so can't be OCed)
Gigabyte GA-Z97M-D3H mATX (Z97 is the King for current Generation if I'm not mistaken)
Cooler Master Silencio 650 ATX Mid Tower (452 wasn't listed, so went up to the 650)
EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Power supply (Not Modular or gold rated, but Bronze is still good and 600W is still plenty of power)
RAM and SSD is same as above build
Cost: 473.29 Pounds (582.22 Euro, $869.15 Canadian, $797.02 US, $861.36 AUD)
I'd switch out the Intel ssd for a Samsung and use the saved money to go for 2x8Gb personally, but I don't know about the pricing elsewhere Nice Build though considering it hits the price target well: )
As I stated previously (and will add a second Edit on my OP) I will keep using my current one GeForce 210. Old, crappy, but for now it is enough, so it will be when I buy the computer and wait for early Christmas or after Christmas time to purchase a new one at a discount price.
3N3RGY, on 20 May 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:
Overclocking helps for sure, the effects on FPS can be 5-10 or negligible (aka not noticeable).
However it's more psychological to know your getting the most perf. out your computer and it's rather fun and the PC looks more aesthetic with a water cooler IMHO.
The case I've picked out isn't designed to show the inside and I really don't care much about that either.
I'd like to prevent overclocking because it always strains the hardware one way or another. I want a mid-range computer that can last 3-4 years playing some demanding games with a few upgrades here and there.
xeromynd, on 20 May 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:
I second (or third) this. You'll want two sticks from the same kit. It's like the "don't combine different battery brands" suggestion only it actually matters a lot more. Plus it'll just save frustration if/when you chose to get another stick if you don't remember the clock speed of the original stick.
I believe you'll need Windows 7 Pro or higher to use more than 4GB, but don't quote me on that. If you get 16GB, your new system will create an equal sized pagefile to match. You definitely won't want to waste 16GB on your SSD. Instructions on how to change your pagefile are in the last link below.
Thanks so much for this info.
I was already thinking about a 2x8GB pack
xeromynd, on 20 May 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:
Couple things about the build:
-I've had a couple computers myself, and I've learned that if you can spring the $$$ for the fastest/higher quality/best rated parts, you really should. In this respect, I'd recommend going straight for an i7 and 16GB of RAM. I have GSkill Ripjaw RAM and it hasn't failed me after three years.
-750w PSU seems fine for future-proofing your rig should you want upgrades.
-I'd go with an aftermarket CPU cooler:
-The Corsair H100i Liquid CPU cooler. The term liquid cooling scares a lot of people away, but this is probably the simplest solution out there, it is just as easy as putting a fan in.
-If you're going to go with a fan, the Hyper212 is great, and kept my CPu cool for many years.
Any thoughts on a case? I recommend the Corsair obsidian series, but they're a bit pricy. Depends if you want that alien spaceship look, that business look, or that "I'm just going to stuff this away where no one can see it anyway, and it doesn't matter"-look.
Well, as I stated on the OP, I really don't want to spend much, mostly because I'm still waiting for payment due last year by my company.
So in light of that, I do need a new rig, and do not want to spend a lot, mostly because I don't know how much or when I will see the $$$ I should of got last year.
xeromynd, on 20 May 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:
Also, when it comes to motherboards, avoid Marvell SATA controllers like the plague.
That ASRock board doesn't seem to list what the controllers are.
Here are some immensely helpful links:
Newegg TV's "How To Build a Computer" Series (I knew quite a fair bit about building PC's even before I watched these, yet they are still worth the time, even if it's just to go over everything)
eXtreme PSU Power Calculator (to see how big of a supply you'll need, although going over by a bit never hurts, and accommodates for future upgrades you may do) http://extreme.outer...culatorlite.jsp
Thank you so much for this info. Will make sure to take a look at it very carefully.
Lord Letto, on 20 May 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:
Not sure if you already have the case or not, so I made this one without case or GPU: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3NB3x (No Europe PcPartPicker I'm aware of, figured UK might be the closest so used that)
I5-3570K (3.4GHz Unlocked Quad Core)
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (One of if the The Best Air CPU Coolers)
Asus P8Z77-V LX (Z77 is King for the Generation of CPU If I'm not Mistaken)
Kingston Beast 2x4GB DDR3-1866 RAM (Duel Channel at 1866MHz)
Intel 530 Series 120GB SSD (from what I looked up one time before, Intel is the SSD King)
EVGA SuperNOVA 750W 80+ Gold Fully Modular Power Supply (80+ Gold is a good thing and fully modular would help for cable management)
Cost: 455.34 Pounds (559.39 Euro, $836.19 Canadian, $766.79 US, 828.70 AUD)
About the rig you suggested I really have to thank you the time you took to take a look at it.
Like I say on another post, I rather have the 4rth gen i5 than an unlocked 3rd gen (again, I refer you to my first option to prevent overclocking as much as possible.)
Cooler - Hoping the case will help on the cooling system (circulating air inside + air filters).
All the other components I will certainly take a look at them.
Thanks you and thank you all so much for your help and tips!
You Just Dont Get It! Still a lot of smoke around you! :-)
It makes no difference how fast your RAM is, if the CPU can feed your RAM with a speed of 1600 MHz only!
You can NOT OC the RAM controller of an Intel i-Processor. The only difference / bennefit with the hi-end RAM it the faster self-refresh rate. That gives you at least 5% für usual operations ... for what? ... twice of price?
If you put a 100 PH engine inside a Lamborghini ... you wan't be automaticaly enabled to drive 250 mph!
But having better ball bearing, tires and car shape you might get the same 5% boost! ^^
Your test reference shows a read-boost of 29% and write-boost of 17% from 1600 to 2400 on this special 4770K ... some other 4770k with a less good memory controller might give you only 15%/10% ... and again for more than twice of the price!!!
If you compare 1600 to 2133 with 3960X - so there is a gain of less than 2%.
I think you need a littel more time for reading Tom's properly - sorry! :-D
No CHIEF, you don't get it. Better is still BETTER... ., Anyone that say there is no advantage, or very slight, going from 1333 or 1600 MHz RAM to 2133 or 2400 MHz on an intel 4770k CPU is a FOOL. EDIT: I was referring (Specifically) to the 4770k if you didn't notice, even though intel CPUs have better memory controllers then AMD CPUs. There is only (1) 4770k, the other is just the 4770 which is not unlocked. Put a 4770k clocked to 4.1 ghz (on air stock cooler) with 1600 MHz RAM against an indentical 4770k at 4.1 ghz (on air stock cooler) with 2400 MHz, and see which one performs better.......
BladeXXL, on 20 May 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:
Your test reference shows a read-boost of 29% and write-boost of 17% from 1600 to 2400 on this special 4770K ... some other 4770k with a less good memory controller might give you only 15%/10%
.. Were you talking about a different CPU but same exact model (Bin) or what? I guess I should just boot up the old AM2 system with DDR2 800 at 4-4-4-12 and forget about RAM, you know since I have no idea what i'm talking about.
Mere observation: good God, the guy asks for (and repeatedly emphasizes that he's looking for) tips on a cheap/cost-effective build and then people get talking about unlocked i7 Haswells and liquid cooling...
Mere observation: good God, the guy asks for (and repeatedly emphasizes that he's looking for) tips on a cheap/cost-effective build and then people get talking about unlocked i7 Haswells and liquid cooling...
That's what happens when someone goes after you saying "NUH UH" EDIT: Watercooling isn't an issue with the 4770k unless you want to go over 4.1 ghz.. I never recommended it to the OP. I understand the OP has a budget, and he will be getting what he can afford, not bashing him at all. But he should at least be informed correctly, if he is being advised. Memory does matter, each specific (model) CPU will have it's sweet spot for memory speed and performance.
I understand the OP has a budget, and he will be getting what he can afford, not bashing him at all. But he should at least be informed correctly, if he is being advised. Memory does matter, each specific (model) CPU will have it's sweet spot for memory speed and performance.
I also understand and am using all the info I can get to better make my choices but for now, the CPU i'll pick is the one in the OP, so do you think the memory I picked up (also described on the OP) is suitable for it (regarding that "sweet spot")?
I have an extremely dated computer atm (a core 2 duo at about 2.9GHz) + 2GB 800 RAM + 1GB DDR3 Graphics card... Been making some kind of magic to be able to play at around 20FPS on large maps and 15-18 on small foggy ones.
But my eyes are begging for something better (smoother).
I have looked around and tried my best to get a low-cost (around 600€) new rig.
Would like to know what you guys think about it.
MB - ASROCK B85 PRO4
CPU - Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz 6MB
Power - Corsair CX Series CX750M
RAM - DDR3 HyperX 8GB 1600MHz Non-ECC CL9 (1 slot)
HDD - SSD Samsung 2.5" 840 Evo 120GB
The graphics card will be purchased later in the year (probably close to Christmas to get some nice deals).
So, what do you guys think? Are there better options without spending too much? Are these components good enough to enjoy the graphics a bit more and get a smoother gameplay experience?
Cheers,
FlipOver
Edit - Forgot to mention my tower Coolermaster Silencio 452 but that wont help or harm much on the gameplay experience...
Edit 2 - Didn't mention and as I see, feels odd the GPU is missing from the list. For now I will stick with the old GeForce 210 and wait for pre-Christmas or after-Christmas time to get a better one at a lower price.
If u really cant afford 2 stix to even maximize thier potential and make dual channel effective any choice u make with leave you wanting..........
dual channel ddr 1600 is alright, it will get the job done, you are just loosing out on 15%+ performance from your CPU.....by not moving to 1866+ DDR3
HyperX 8GB 1600MHz Non-ECC CL9 will be fine, but I would go with 2x 4gb dims (sticks) instead of 4 x2gb. I was only suggesting if you could go with a different setup with the 4700k and 2133 or 2400mhz, that it would be better that is all.
If u really cant afford 2 stix to even maximize thier potential and make dual channel effective any choice u make with leave you wanting..........
dual channel ddr 1600 is alright, it will get the job done, you are just loosing out on 15%+ performance from your CPU.....by not moving to 1866+ DDR3
Well, I wish I could afford 2 sticks of 8GB but I just hope that when the end of the month comes, I'll be able to get them.
Chosing the 1600 over any other is mainly because I don't think I will see much difference on my day-to-day usage.
Or so I believe
Odins Fist, on 20 May 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:
HyperX 8GB 1600MHz Non-ECC CL9 will be fine, but I would go with 2x 4gb dims (sticks) instead of 4 x2gb. I was only suggesting if you could go with a different setup with the 4700k and 2133 or 2400mhz, that it would be better that is all.
Thanks mate.
Again, I hope I can afford 2x8GB and if I can't I'll get 2x4GB.
For now it's no big deal anyway. There are still many Games out there that run fine on 4GB, or can't even use more than 2GB. (Yes 2, not even 4) so 8GB is fine. But remember when true next gen titles come, they might need more.
1
BladeXXL, on 19 May 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:
Nice Build though considering it hits the price target well: )
EDIT: Watercooling isn't an issue with the 4770k unless you want to go over 4.1 ghz.. I never recommended it to the OP. I understand the OP has a budget, and he will be getting what he can afford, not bashing him at all. But he should at least be informed correctly, if he is being advised. Memory does matter, each specific (model) CPU will have it's sweet spot for memory speed and performance.
