503 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

Bill Lumbar, on 26 June 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

My question is though, is this the type of model we the consumer are ok with and should be supporting???

Yes, this type of model I the consumer am OK with.

I support it and am not dismayed to pay $300+ per year in order to do so. Basically that breaks down to $0.50 or less per hour in my case.

Very reasonable.

What do you consider a reasonable amount of money to spend on a per hour basis for cooperative escapism?

Good cable T.V. costs more and I spend more time on MWO than I've ever watched TV.

Really, you sound like grandpa Simpson complaining about some newfangled gadget.

Edited by Gorgo7, 26 June 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Heffay]

Gorgo7, on 26 June 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Good cable T.V.

What is this nonsense you talk of??

[Zerberus]

Alianton, on 19 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

any word on the eventual c-bill pricing of the clan mechs? also will the IS mechs ever be able to use clan tech?

No and (hopefully) no.

[Bill Lumbar]

Gorgo7, on 26 June 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Yes, this type of model I the consumer am OK with.

I support it and am not dismayed to pay $300+ per year in order to do so. Basically that breaks down to $0.50 or less per hour in my case.

Very reasonable.

What do you consider a reasonable amount of money to spend on a per hour basis for cooperative escapism?

Good cable T.V. costs more and I spend more time on MWO than I've ever watched TV.

Really, you sound like grandpa Simpson complaining about some newfangled gadget.

If you are all good with leasing a game and just paying to lease it while its offered to you that is great. Enjoy it, have fun with it. Sounds a lot like apple products and where they went, and I am not ok with that. Does that make me sound like Grandpa simpson complaining about some newfangled gadget....Just like many things, well opinions vary :-)

I think I have made it very clear what I consider to be a reasonable amount to pay for a first person shooter mech game with no real ownership and content. At anytime all these digital toys we spend money on can vanish and never be used again. If you are ok with that, once again great! Enjoy leasing. I however want a game with real content, CW, and to be able to play it after the show is over even if on a limited set amount of solid content in single player mode.

I think I made it quite clear why I feel that way, given the extreme pricing on most things in this game. Btw, I don't have cable, and haven't had it for 15 years.... same old $hit, same old bill every month..... just leasing it, no real content, sound similar to you?

[Cavendish]

Bill Lumbar, on 26 June 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

but it is looking very promising with the model they are pitching to the people who really want that game. With what they have promised it will be, if they keep their promises, it should be one of the very best Warhammer 40k games of all time! :-) My point is that even with games like DOW, soul storm, DOW II I can still go back, replay the story out, and even play online with other players. I have maybe $300 tops in all these games and can still enjoy them even after the company closed its doors. I don't mind giving my hard earned cash for games that give you something that is yours to keep even if they don't update the content any longer. Very simple concept, you pay money and you get something real in return that you can enjoy even if they close shop.

Both Eternal Crusade and MWO offer expensive packs, $250 $450 vs $240 $500. I dont see what EC gives you that MWO dont? Both are filled with promises, both developed by "unknown" devs, yet you are perfectly fine with and looking forward to one and condemn the other for being expensive? Help me understand here.

( I used the most expensive choises for my example, both games offer cheaper alternatives MWO $30 kit fox, EC basic pack for $40 )

Edit: You bring in single player games with multiplayer options into this also, which is not really relevant to the discussion. Online games offer you their service while they are running, you can not compare that to games that have offline gameplay.

Edited by Cavendish, 26 June 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Koniving]

Nauht, on 19 June 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

For a clearly superior mech in every way to its counterpart. Not this "balancing" to make them equal for balance reasons.

I understand the need for balance in gameplay but this should be reflected in CB cost as well. It's only common sense.

Well if they do that...
The Atlas K is supposed to be 22,576,000 C-bills.

A Cataphract 3D is supposed to be 13,612,354 C-bills.

Jenner D stock: 3,198,375 C-bills

Hunchback 4G stock. 3,467,875 C-bills

Shadow Hawk 2D stock: 4,587,432 C-bills
Shadow Hawk 5M stock: 10,296,856 C-bills

Kintaro 20 stock: 4,926,107 C-bills

Jagermech DD: 11,419,925 C-bills
Jagermech S: 5,232,425 C-bills

Food for thought. XL engines for balance should be as priced in BT...
That means an XL 300 engine (which is special) for an Atlas K would be over 12 million.
But an XL engine for a 35 ton mech of the same size, only usable in that size mech due to different brand, make and model, is only 4 million cbills.

Cbills reflected for balancing.

Somehow...I think not.

Besides, PGI will make them cheaper than they really are, look at the price difference between Shadowhawk 5M actual and the Shadowhawk 5M in MWO.

(edit: "if do that." ..Yep. Fixed.)

Edited by Koniving, 26 June 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Gorgo7]

Heffay, on 26 June 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

What is this nonsense you talk of??

G.O.T.

[Heffay]

Gorgo7, on 26 June 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

G.O.T.

It'll be on Amazon Prime in no time. I can wait.

[Almond Brown]

Bill Lumbar, on 25 June 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

stuff

Example: Just bought Shadowrun returns and the berlin pack a while back and it was reasonable for the price paid, $28 dollars total for both. Full content and a User generated content editor to make your own missions and play others USG after downloading it for free on steam. IF you guys make the game we want, money will come, this is a great group of people that love this game.

For a game that came out in 2013, getting it for Half price, in the second quarter of 2014, does not bode well for any game really.

You do know that game was "crowd funded" right? So some folks paid FULL price pre-launch and now everyone else gets it on the cheap? Whaaat? At least around here everyone can pay the same if they simply choose to wait.

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 June 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Stingray Productions]

Butane9000, on 19 June 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

if you go to Sarna you can see their value from the table top game and thus roughly what their in game value will be. The Nova is roughly 11.5 million C-bills.

does that mean the direwolf may sell for 32 mil?

[Bill Lumbar]

Cavendish, on 26 June 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

[size=4]

Both Eternal Crusade and MWO offer expensive packs, $250 $450 vs $240 $500. I dont see what EC gives you that MWO dont? Both are filled with promises, both developed by "unknown" devs, yet you are perfectly fine with and looking forward to one and condemn the other for being expensive? Help me understand here.

( I used the most expensive choises for my example, both games offer cheaper alternatives MWO $30 kit fox, EC basic pack for $40 )

Edit: You bring in single player games with multiplayer options into this also, which is not really relevant to the discussion. Online games offer you their service while they are running, you can not compare that to games that have offline gameplay.

If I am not mistaken, for $40 dollars you get access to 4 different races..... each one with 4 to 6 different classes of warrior. Elder I believe have 6, orks, marines, chaos, have 4. You get 4 slots to fill any of the 18 different class of warriors from the 4 races. If you want extra slots for more warriors they are $10 bucks a slot I believe. Which means for $40 dollars you get the core content of the whole game and some bonus points/mc to spend in the store for lore items..... if you buy into the higher price brackets, you get more bonus points, + lore Items..... and other perks.

There is a huge difference in there model from buying a $30 kit fox package and getting only three mechs, three mech bays, no pt, no mc.... nothing, just the 3 mechs and 3 bays. EC gives you complete access to all core content/races/and warriors/ for just $40 bucks, + bonus points/ mc to spend on lore items. It would appear you can choose from ALL 4 races, and ALL of the warrior classes within them. That is a lot of choices and complete access to the base game for only $40 bucks.

In order for MWO to follow their model.... they would have to sell a package for $40 dollars, and you get 4 mech bays, and you would be able to choose ANY of the mechs you want and have four mechs of your choice....clan, IS, whatever, at any given time in your bays. Or they could split it up and make you pick between IS and Clan for the package you buy, your choice. Or they could split it up even further and sell base packages based on Clan/IS and split the weight classes up also.

Either way they would need to give you 18 different mechs per package to be on the same level. So I would say their is a big difference between the two models.

It almost sounds as if you think I am ragging on this game.... I am not. I love the art, love the game and that is why I have spent some money on it, and I enjoy playing it. However, IMO prices are extremely over priced for anything in this game. It almost seems like a few of you who has dropped any real amount of money are offended by someone simply saying the prices are insane in this model. lol

As to what EC will offer that MWO doesn't.... well that remains to be seen. They have made many promises of where they are gonna take the game. One of the biggest and key things EC is saying they will bring out at launch...... not a year after launch, is the global warfare aspect, playing with over a 1000 players online, raiding bases, each battle can affect the outcome of the next. Scout out a city that is taken by another race and is to strong for your force to take head on, you can look for other ways to hurt your enemy. Cut their supply lines, take a smaller base or city.....ya know, real content. Will they keep their promises? Who knows, like you said both were unknown developers, however they haven't launched yet..... we know for a fact where we are at here at this point in time.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 26 June 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Butane9000]

Stingray1234, on 26 June 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

does that mean the direwolf may sell for 32 mil?

between 28-31 million per variant.

[Stingray Productions]

Butane9000, on 26 June 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

between 28-31 million per variant.

this is good information, now I know I need to save more c-bills.

[xMEPHISTOx]

So on the assumption that 28m would be a mechs cost, and lets assume that the average cbill/match earnings are 150k then it would take 186.6 matches to acquire one clan mech.
Averaging 150k per match is probably a high estimate especially for those w/out premium so lets do same on the average per match earning being 95k, that would now be a whopping 294.7 matches played to acquire one mech.

[Bill Lumbar]

xMEPHISTOx, on 26 June 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

So on the assumption that 28m would be a mechs cost, and lets assume that the average cbill/match earnings are 150k then it would take 186.6 matches to acquire one clan mech.
Averaging 150k per match is probably a high estimate especially for those w/out premium so lets do same on the average per match earning being 95k, that would now be a whopping 294.7 matches played to acquire one mech.

yep....so in about a year we can all get clan mechs.... Rock on! lol

Or we can just stop complaining and open our wallets for all this goodness. Who cares if you have bills, a house payment... god d.... it some things are more important, like buying, opps, I mean leasing every over priced digital toy in every game out there that looks good and is fun! who cares what it cost, if you can't afford it, take out a loan on it! ha ha, seriously though, crack prices or off to the grind.

Don't forget to spend more cash and get pt....that will take the grind down to a half a year ;-)

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 26 June 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Gorgo7]

Bill Lumbar, on 26 June 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

I think I made it quite clear why I feel that way, given the extreme pricing on most things in this game. Btw, I don't have cable, and haven't had it for 15 years.... same old $hit, same old bill every month..... just leasing it, no real content, sound similar to you?

I don't understand Bill...tell me again why you don't like this pricing model?
I'm a little foggy on your reasoning, could you perhaps expand upon your premise...just a bit? You know, in more detail?
Golly, your verbosity has me in a tizzy, could you... sort of...start from the beginning and just expand upon your fascinating points?!
That would be great!
And don't hold back! Tell us what you really mean!

[C E Dwyer]

damn misread, thought it was the release scedual for good mechs, but its only the clans

[Toothless]

With its current CT, the Dire Wolf isnt worth half that.

[Bill Lumbar]

Gorgo7, on 28 June 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I don't understand Bill...tell me again why you don't like this pricing model?
I'm a little foggy on your reasoning, could you perhaps expand upon your premise...just a bit? You know, in more detail?
Golly, your verbosity has me in a tizzy, could you... sort of...start from the beginning and just expand upon your fascinating points?!
That would be great!
And don't hold back! Tell us what you really mean!

ummm yeah.... thats not gonna work for me,I have a meeting with the Bob's later, come back later. I will be trying to play with and figure out this newfangled gadget that has me so upset and confused :-)

[Koniving]

Stingray1234, on 26 June 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

does that mean the direwolf may sell for 32 mil?

Doubt it.
The Atlas K's proper price is 22,576,000 C-bills.
This is because as you go up in weight, the price of engines both standard and XL increases. An XL 300 fitted for a 100 ton mech is 12 million, where the same XL 300 (by a different brand mind you) for a 35 ton mech is about 3.8 million.

(What I find funny about this is it suggests that the engines for one tonnage of mech is incompatible for another tonnage of mech, then the fluffed brand names don't fit the generic brand names for various 'create-a-mech-for-tabletop programs, suggesting that aside from non-canon made-up mechs, engines for canon mechs of identical weights are also incompatible. This combined with TT-style engine limits would put a huge dilution to 'meta' rigs...but doubt it'll ever happen.)

With the Dire Wolf at 29,350,000 C-bills.
The would be price of a standard engine dire wolf with the exact same build is 13,975,000 C-bills (this is also invalid due to weight and omni-mech rules, but I love megamek's lab for this reason).
Meaning the price of the Dire Wolf's XL engine alone is 15,375,000 C-bills.

We know PGI will charge the typical XL 300 engine price.
So 13,975,000 C-bills - 2 million (as typically every mech is about 2 million cheaper) + 1/2 of the XL engine price for an IS XL 300 engine in MWO (4,900,000 / 2 = 2450000) = approximately what they will charge.

So an approximation is 14,425,000 C-bills.
Once it's priced, come back and check on this.

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2014 - 05:54 AM.