111 replies to this topic

[MortVent]

Okay.... if you are getting stomped by teamwork. It's not the weapons used!

You want to nerf and actually hinder a weapon system... that already is the slowest time to target weapon in the game, and really requires 1.5 tons of equipment and an additional ton per launcher to be basically effective? That can be neutralized easily with 1.5 tons of ecm, and reduced in effect for an additional 1.5 tons (ams)

Because you can't be bothered to actively take cover, get folks to work as a team... and deal with the threat in a manner that reduces their effectiveness to 0?

Want a couple million dollars handed to you on a gold plate so you don't got to work in rl too?

[Vaderman]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

If it was 8 small laser Blackjacks, he'd find a way to complain about it.

3025 Charger FTW!

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

If it was 8 small laser Blackjacks, he'd find a way to complain about it.

I'd find a creative way to expose the imbalance, crack some jokes, provide feedback, and made tryhards mad all in one. A slam dunk! There's a find art to constructive complaints. I can't help it if you get mad in the process because you've seen it all before or want to defend a questionable playstyle or simply silence the masses. The best part is you guys barely read before knee-jerking. You guys remind me of someone who complaints about reposters on imgur. One of those guys.... yep. I feel like a McDonald's commercial now because "I'm lovin it."

(brownie points who posts a picture from the naken gun about swimming in raw sewage... "I love it"... it's a lot like pugging actually LOL)

Edited by lockwoodx, 19 May 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[Mycrus]

Only noobs complain about lurms...

Every single time I died to lurms I blame me.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Mycrus, on 19 May 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Only noobs complain about what killed them...

Every single time I die I blame me.

Fixed that for you.

[-Halcyon-]

Never seen so many hostile people in one thread just because of a simple suggestion.
You act like I ran over your dog.
Just suggesting a mechanic change in a video game.

If you're so bothered by it, then don't read the thread and move on to the next one.

[Wolfways]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Never seen so many hostile people in one thread just because of a simple suggestion.
You act like I ran over your dog.
Just suggesting a mechanic change in a video game.

If you're so bothered by it, then don't read the thread and move on to the next one.

Try suggesting a change that isn't a nerf to one of the worst weapons in the game

[-Halcyon-]

Wolfways, on 19 May 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

Try suggesting a change that isn't a nerf to one of the worst weapons in the game

It's just a game.

[Wolfways]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

It's just a game.

Yes it is. A game that is (less and less over time) based on an IP loved my many.
Ever tried to tell a Star Wars fan that Star Trek is better?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Never seen so many hostile people in one thread just because of a simple suggestion.
You act like I ran over your dog.
Just suggesting a mechanic change in a video game.

If you're so bothered by it, then don't read the thread and move on to the next one.

What the crux of the situation is, is that PGI lis starting to listen now. They didn't listen to them back in beta so they're jaded and want to see PGI fail at any cost by exploiting PGI's failures until it drives everyone away. It's the epitome of jealousy that PGI listens to us rather than them, when everyone knows PGI would have kept ignoring everyone if it weren't for competitive players purposly driving casuals off until PGI has no choice to listen to whom ever is left. Still.. PGI are no fools and they appeal to both sides equally, if not leaning more towards the casuals because they need the fresh blood.

I appreciate your thread. Someone has to. They don't care for the welfare of this game if they don't realize sportsmanship is key to preserving a community, and community is what brings in casuals who are curious about the game.

Edited by lockwoodx, 19 May 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[-Halcyon-]

Wolfways, on 19 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Yes it is. A game that is (less and less over time) based on an IP loved my many.
Ever tried to tell a Star Wars fan that Star Trek is better?

Where did I compare mechwarrior to another game?
Not getting whatever point you're trying to make.

[Bishop Steiner]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

It's just a game.

a game many of us would like to keep fun. I understand your idea of fun and mine might differ, but this game has far too many "nerf" solutions that have actually made balance worse, not better. So asking for an already mostly bad weapon, that really is only effective against disorganized people afraid to push, is not gonna be received all that well.

And no, I don't run LRM boats. In fact, I think I have 3-4 out of my 80 mechs that even have LRMs at all.

[-Halcyon-]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

a game many of us would like to keep fun. I understand your idea of fun and mine might differ, but this game has far too many "nerf" solutions that have actually made balance worse, not better. So asking for an already mostly bad weapon, that really is only effective against disorganized people afraid to push, is not gonna be received all that well.

And no, I don't run LRM boats. In fact, I think I have 3-4 out of my 80 mechs that even have LRMs at all.

Well I disagree.
I think it's a great weapon used effectively.
I also think a C3 mechanic should be used instead of what is in place now.

[Captain Stiffy]

Mycrus, on 19 May 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Only noobs complain about lurms...

Every single time I died to lurms I blame me.

Exactly as I've said there are SO MANY people that play this that are not good enough at it to realize when they die due to their own errors. It's kinda hard to hate dying to LRM's when you know you tried to cross and shouldn't have.

[Bishop Steiner]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Well I disagree.
I think it's a great weapon used effectively.
I also think a C3 mechanic should be used instead of what is in place now.

when I start seeing them at high elo play, I'll consider them a great weapon. As of now, they are great when used to farm PUGs, because most pugs can't spell teamwork, let alone perform it. There's a reason Poptarting dominates High Elo. It is much more effective than LRMs, even "LRM Teams".

[-Halcyon-]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

when I start seeing them at high elo play, I'll consider them a great weapon. As of now, they are great when used to farm PUGs, because most pugs can't spell teamwork, let alone perform it. There's a reason Poptarting dominates High Elo. It is much more effective than LRMs, even "LRM Teams".

Not every player in this game is at a "high" level.
I play in pugs, and I would think a good chunk of the players also play in pugs.
And in pugs, missiles are great when used effectively against a disorganized team.

I made this post from a pug standpoint, not some high end league play.

[Kilo 40]

I have a better idea. lets make ECM effect lasers and PPCs as well. and just like when using LRMs you can be all ready to shoot but someone hits the toggle on his ECM and suddenly you just get to stand there and do nothing until he goes away. yes even if you're carrying the supposed "counter to ECM" known as BAP.

that ought to dial down the laser and PPC spam.

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Not every player in this game is at a "high" level.
I play in pugs, and I would think a good chunk of the players also play in pugs.
And in pugs, missiles are great when used effectively against a disorganized team.

I made this post from a pug standpoint, not some high end league play.

in pugs all weapons are great against a disorganized team.

the disorganized team is the problem, not LRMs.

[-Halcyon-]

Kilo 40, on 19 May 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

I have a better idea. lets make ECM effect lasers and PPCs as well. and just like when using LRMs you can be all ready to shoot but someone hits the toggle on his ECM and suddenly you just get to stand there and do nothing until he goes away. yes even if you're carrying the supposed "counter to ECM" known as BAP.

that ought to dial down the laser and PPC spam.



in pugs all weapons are great against a disorganized team.

the disorganized team is the problem, not LRMs.

At least with other weapons, you need line of sight to use them.

[MortVent]

Halcyon201, on 19 May 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

At least with other weapons, you need line of sight to use them.

Someone has to have los to allow you to shoot indirectly... kill the spotters!

[Zordicron]

LRMs are actually in a good place. What I dont like is the mega boats. I have a couple myself(battlemaster and Awesome 8R) that I use/test things with when they change. The battlemaster I just rolled because I wanted to get it mastered for elite etc on the other 2. The Awesome I created before missle HSR was in.

Awesome 8R can fire 4x LRM15, all at once, in a giant mega blob. If I have a tag pointed at your atlas, I will kill you. It will take more then one salvo, but i will kill you before you kill me. If you are in LOS with your mech that is 65 tons or less, I will kill you. Provided hit detection is on my side that day. Yes, if your team brings a lot of AMS, you will foil my plans of insta ganking your HBK. it is rediculous that I can do this, IMO, with little heat penalty(that is worth talking about anyway) and the real drawback being I need to be on my toes and get some team help if a wolfpack comes running. if I do what I am supposed to, IE stay within 500M of my teams brawlers so i can nuke their targets, it isnt a big deal unless the team has cascade failure.

On the flip side, I run a single launcher LRM 20 on one of my tbolts, and a lrm10/5 combo on another. I have run dual LRM10 on some mechs etc. I use them at sub 400M range as "long range SRM" on enemy in LOS in support of my ac10 or LL. I think in this type of use, LRM are in an excellent place, travel speed etc wise.

So then, how do we alter the design, so that the solid performing support weapon side of the LRm isnt ruined, while discouraging the LRM80 boat method? i think it is two main things:

chance of ammo explosion. Right now, really, it is laughable. The only time you need to worry is if you brought 9 tons of ammo and only fired off 1 ton before taking critical fire. This also comes in to play with the ballistics boat guys, the dual ac20 guys with 5 tons of ammo, the triple UAC5 guys with 7 tons of ammo or more, etc. Ammo should blow up. you should want to take some lasers and spread out the heat/ammo usage/danger of ammo explosion etc. My tbolts with the single launcher, i think maybe i have 3 tons on the one with the 20 on it because I tend to hang out farther away and use ERLL with that one. the others with the smaller launchers I run 2 tons(sometimes no artemis because I engage so close with LOS etc and its small launchers) and yes, I run out, but if I did my job right the match should be well into the 3/4 over area by then. I also have the LRM as not a main weapon.

The second thing I think would help would be more ecm on the field- with of course this caveat: there needs to be a limit to the number of effective ECM bubbles being run. maybe, 3 stacks? 2? It feels rediculous to me that so few mechs can run the ECM and that it really can be so effective because of that. More ECm+capping its effect plus maybe even reduce its power a little would be better then one or two super potent ECM bubbles on the field as it is now. I would love to see ECM get nulled if the carrying mech went over 80% heat threshold. Run too hot, your ECM quits.

Anyway, I amnot all sure what the answer is for anti LRM boating, but IMO it is an issue, people all cry LRMs are no big deal, but there are a lot of new players frustrated by them that come on the boards every day to vent about them. Part of it is learning curve, but from my own play, I know how effective/easy it is on certain boat loadout mechs to wreck some peoples days. TTK can be way to short in some circumstances in a game about building size robots in a war of attrition.