29 replies to this topic

[arkani]

WHY does a 100 ton Atlas being hit by AC2's has the same screen shake as a 20 ton Locust being hit by AC2's ??

WHY being hit by an LRM5 gives the same amount of screen shake as an LRM20 ?

WHY does an LRM5 core/kill you faster than a LRM20 ?

WHY can you put into a 35 ton Raven a 14 ton weapon ?

WHY is there no recoil when firing a AC20 ?

WHY have these issues and others been brought up over and over and nothing has been done ?
Because PGI :

Edited by arkani, 20 May 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[Nova Latios Storm]

I am confused... :S

[AlexEss]

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

1:WHY does a 100 ton Atlas being hit by AC2's has the same screen shake as a 20 ton Locust being hit by AC2's ??

2:WHY being hit by an LRM5 gives the same amount of screen shake as an LRM20 ?

3:WHY can you put into a 35 ton Raven a 14 ton weapon ?

4:WHY is there no recoil when firing a AC20 ?

5:WHY have these issues and others been brought up over and over and nothing has been done ?

1: Because of gamebalance over reality (or as real as it gets in a multi ton walking tank)

2: Because of 1

3: Thanks to state of the art gyroscopic balancing systems and counterweights, oh and the fact that you do not need to use your own sense of balance to keep the mech upright. That would be fun i think if you had.

4: Because a decent amount of the weapons weight goes in to the housing such as mounts and recoil dampeners

5:Because half of them are not issues and the other half is QoL issues at best that sort of take a backseat to bigger things.

Did you have any other questions that you needed and answer for?

[Reitrix]

An Atlas only weighs 10 tons though. It has a 90 ton load bearing capacity.

[MonkeyCheese]

I know I drive an ac20 raven but I really do not understand the constant complaints about the build, like really they go 100kph ( like seriously I have a fully armored dragon that goes faster) and they have minimal ammo and backup lasers, and I don't think I have seen any builds fit a missile at all.

Of all the things to complain about especially when everyone else in the other weight classes cram as many weapons as possible into their mechs, the ac20 raven is something to complain about why?

[arkani]

Lights should not carry AC20.
The only medium capable of carrying an AC20 should be the Hunchback, because its was specifically built for it.
This is a gameplay balance issue, this makes mechs have distinct roles.
AC20 Raven is bad gameply balance.

100 ton Atlas being hit by AC2's should simple shrug it off with almost no screen shake.
LRM5 should not have the same sreen shake as LRM20, this is the reason peolple complain some much about LRMs because when you get hit by a constant stream of LRM5s your screen shakes so much to you cannot return fire.
This is bad gameplay balance.

Is it clearer now for you guys that the gameplay balance is BAD !??

[Karl Streiger]

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Lights should not carry AC20.
The only medium capable of carrying an AC20 should be the Hunchback, because its was specifically built for it.
This is a gameplay balance issue, this makes mechs have distinct roles.
AC20 Raven is bad gameply balance.

How so? We don't have the UrbanMech - and that 30ton Mech is capable of carrying a AC 20 into battle.
Regarding Mediums with AC 20
What about the Pontiac 100 of the YLW
Or the Luxor XX-D of the CN9-AH?

What you describe sounds like hardpoint size restrictions, and hp size restriction is only good for immersion not balancing.
Hard to see the reason? Wait 4 weeks.

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

100 ton Atlas being hit by AC2's should simple shrug it off with almost no screen shake.
LRM5 should not have the same sreen shake as LRM20, this is the reason peolple complain some much about LRMs because when you get hit by a constant stream of LRM5s your screen shakes so much to you cannot return fire.

Shake is disturbing - but you can still return fire.

- and i admit it would make some sense when a "big" unit could not be shaken. I look forward for the Module Upgrade some official member has mentioned a time ago - maybe the "Gyro" Module could only build into assaults.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 May 2014 - 03:15 AM.

[MonkeyCheese]

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Lights should not carry AC20.
The only medium capable of carrying an AC20 should be the Hunchback, because its was specifically built for it.
This is a gameplay balance issue, this makes mechs have distinct roles.
AC20 Raven is bad gameply balance.

100 ton Atlas being hit by AC2's should simple shrug it off with almost no screen shake.
LRM5 should not have the same sreen shake as LRM20, this is the reason peolple complain some much about LRMs because when you get hit by a constant stream of LRM5s your screen shakes so much to you cannot return fire.
This is bad gameplay balance.

Is it clearer now for you guys that the gameplay balance is BAD !??

No

[Curccu]

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

The only medium capable of carrying an AC20 should be the Hunchback, because its was specifically built for it.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Yen-Lo-Wang

[arkani]

Again, Yen-Lo-Wang, was modified to carry the AC20.
You guys are actually making my point.

Only specifically built and/or modified mediums can carry the AC20.
If you want and AC20 in the battle you would take the Hunchback or the Yen-Lo, and not a Blackjack, or a ShadowHawk.

This would give a reason for these mechs to be taken, as it is now just take a Shadow hawk with AC20 and JJ's.

Again this is bad gameplay, it removes diversity from the game because any mech can carry anything.

[MonkeyCheese]

Hardpoint restrictions are like 2 years too late and would destroy the game/community beyond repair. People need to just drop this idea already.

[Shamandin]

arkani, on 20 May 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

WHY does an LRM5 core/kill you faster than a LRM20 ?

I didn't see this one answered, so I'll take a stab at it (sorry if I missed someone posting on it). This part is actually "realistic" to a degree. It's call fratricide. Flights of missiles that travel too close together are likely to blow each other up. The smaller the flight, the less this is likely, so the closer the missiles can fly together. The closer they can fly together, the likelier they are to impact in the same location. Thus, the quicker destruction of that component. With the LRM20, there are more missiles in the flight, so they have to spread farther apart to avoid fratricide. Since they're farther apart, they're more likely to have more missiles MISS (in a technical hit on the target) as well as have that damage spread farther apart over the target.

All of this to logically explain the thing you're actually complaining about ... balance. Smaller launchers cluster together to make up for fewer missiles making it through any AMS defenses. Larger launchers are more likely to have leakers through AMS, So, to balance, they're damage is spread out across more of the target and less likely to core the target. If you look over the history of the LRMs in game, this would be obvious. LRMs were especially deadly early in CB due to a tighter spread, regardless of launcher size, and small AOE effect that tended to cluster on the CT. Spread by launcher size was one of the tweaks that they've done that makes realistic sense. Now, if people would stop complaining about my LRM and work on the other items that still need to be tweaked.

-- I was a Lurm'er when lurm'ing wasn't cool ... to badly misquote Barbara Mandrell.

[Redshift2k5]

Just because people complain about something does not mean it's broken. You can't please everyone.

Technically, having the same screenshake for a Locust being hit and for an Atlas being hit is balanced. What you want is for them to be unbalanced, poresumably on the basis of realism (small object would be more susceptable to impact), but pure realism without gameplay considerations doesn't really work.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 20 May 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

for the record, i just wanna say, an AC/20 Raven is BAD.

i will kill it. all the time, everytime.

[PhoenixFire55]

Even tho the OP probably doesn't bring up the best examples, his point remains valid...



Because PGI^TM.

[Diablobo]

Since PGI is unable to get 3/3/3/3 working, no one should have any reason to complain about a Raven packing an AC/20.
There currently exists no compelling reason to bring a Raven instead of a Hunchback or something bigger, except the size and concealability of a smaller mech. If you can sneak around in a Raven and not get spotted, more power to you. All you complainers need to pay more attention and not discount the little guys. Even if they are only packing a couple of med lasers, they can still hurt you.

Edited by Diablobo, 20 May 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Zerberus]

MonkeyCheese, on 20 May 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

I know I drive an ac20 raven but I really do not understand the constant complaints about the build, like really they go 100kph....

I LMAO everytime some whines about a Boomchicken.... especially in the rare cases when the same ****** just declared Clan lights DOA 2 threads over "becasue they only go 97"

[Bobzilla]

Redshift2k5, on 20 May 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Just because people complain about something does not mean it's broken. You can't please everyone.

Technically, having the same screenshake for a Locust being hit and for an Atlas being hit is balanced. What you want is for them to be unbalanced, poresumably on the basis of realism (small object would be more susceptable to impact), but pure realism without gameplay considerations doesn't really work.

I would argue that an atlas is going to get hit consistantly, and have consistant shake. A locust is rarely hit, so really an atlas is reciving more shake than a locust. That is not balanced nor realistic.

All that gameply consideration and what not.

[RangerGee412]

The screen shake doesn't bother me in my atlas, what is really annoying is the smoke and flames completely obscurring my vision. Just tone that down a little.

[Bounty Dogg]

Bobzilla, on 20 May 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

I would argue that an atlas is going to get hit consistantly, and have consistant shake. A locust is rarely hit, so really an atlas is reciving more shake than a locust. That is not balanced nor realistic.

All that gameply consideration and what not.

......thats kinda the point of a light mech: its smaller size and speed mitigates the fact that it is sacrificing a LOT of armor and some firepower to achieve those speeds. Its size is to more easily allow it to be missed by pilot mistakes.

....We're gonna punish it now for achieving one of its design philosophies?

As to the atlas argument.....the atlas also outweighs the locust by somewhere around 65 tons, and while not all of this goes to armor, it is EASILY 3 times as armored as a locust. Also, guns. Lots and LOTS of guns, in comparison to the locust. Those are an atlas's benefits. And while there is some rl truth behind the heavier ride shaking less, the light mechs do deserve some rl physics bending for the sake of gameplay, otherwise the atlas (and all the other mech classes) would have too many benefits over it.