400 replies to this topic

[Zack Esseth]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 20 May 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Repost due to button mashing error: Alright everyone. Matchmaking numbers continued to spike with Rule of Three's. So we are adjusting this Class Limit to a maximum of 4s. This means any of the following variations of weight classing will be possible:

3/3/3/3
4/3/3/2
4/4/3/1
4/4/2/2
4/4/4

We are going to see how this works out, there remains a strong possibility we will have to further increase this maximum or altogether shut off the class limits and revert back to group limits in the interim, so please stay tuned here. We are playing by ear on this one as we build the data. Thanks again for standing by.

So just courious. does this only work in a manner the restricts assaults from being greater than 3 or does the 4 freely move to what chassis needs it. If so, you may as well turn it off, its just going to be like old times with 4 assaults, 4 heavies, 3 lights and 1 medium again.

[AlmightyAeng]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 20 May 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Repost due to button mashing error: Alright everyone. Matchmaking numbers continued to spike with Rule of Three's. So we are adjusting this Class Limit to a maximum of 4s. This means any of the following variations of weight classing will be possible:

3/3/3/3
4/3/3/2
4/4/3/1
4/4/2/2
4/4/4

We are going to see how this works out, there remains a strong possibility we will have to further increase this maximum or altogether shut off the class limits and revert back to group limits in the interim, so please stay tuned here. We are playing by ear on this one as we build the data. Thanks again for standing by.

Whoa...dude...so...like...a full lance of equally tonned mechs?

*hugs Niko, sobbing uncontrollably*

Edit: Jumped the gun...not nearly as cool as I'd hoped. Backend still.
Edit2: Nvm, it's off now.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 May 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[WarHippy]

Sir Trent Howell, on 20 May 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Why isn't a straight tonnage limit being used?

When they announced the rule of 3 they gave reasons for why they didn't go with tonnage limits. One of them being it makes it really hard for people to play together and play in whatever mech they want. The original proposal was for a group of 2 to be limited to 120 tons, which would mean if my friend wanted to play in his Boar's head my only choice would be a Locust when I would also prefer to play in a heavier mech. The rule of 3 was the better choice between the two, but neither are good.

[CeaseFire]

So I'm seeing more things to purchase and bug fixes to the places where you purchase them. When can we expect some improvements to the actual game? I've already made a purchase and until the game is fun to play again I won't be making any more. I can't even recommend that friends come join me in this F2P game right now. They would wonder why it feels so incomplete and never trust my suggestions again.

[Roland]

The reason a straight tonnage limit doesn't work, is because mech utility doesn't really correlate with tonnage.

If you restrict tonnage, what you tend to get is a bunch of assault mechs mixed with a bunch of light mechs, because they're the best mechs in the game.

Of course, weight class doesn't really work either, as an Awesome is not as useful as a Highlander... and yet both are assaults.

The second link in my sig proposes what would likely be a better solution, as it actually attempts to restrict mech utility, directly rewarding players who bring the lesser used chassis. The 3/3/3/3 system kind of TRIES to do this, but is mainly based on the fact that medium mechs are pretty much just less useful than other mechs.

[Colonel Fubar]

Really PGI 12 min 45 sec wait time with a 40 ton mech? On average we are lucky to get three drops in 1 hour. Did you sell servers to make ends meat or what? Again if your goal is to drive players away from the game...mission accomplished.

[Foust]

Maybe add a stipulation of 1 per weight class? 2 per weight class?

[Forte]

Koniving, on 20 May 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Funny indeed.

Now for an epic one.
Rules for playing the following will be at the bottom of this post for something quite epic and powerful. Do not, under any circumstances, press play on either one until reading the rules. Please follow the rules precisely for the best experience.

Number 1


Number 2.


Press play on Number 1 now. Immediately set the volume to 50% on Number 1. Watch the timer. When the timer hits 26 seconds, hit Play on Number 2. Immediately ensure that it is playing at 100% volume.

Begin visualizing a planetary invasion. Infantry skirmishing against Battle Armor that's leaping off of Clan mechs. Vehicles being chased by light mechs. Tanks duking it out with tanks and other mechs. Inner Sphere mechs scrambling to get out of their hangars.
People hiding in shelters and buildings too scared to leave, yet too curious to stay away from the windows when something so terribly foreign that it is alien stomps by.

Bask in the glory of the power of suggestion. Enjoy.

I'll bring this back for the Clan Invasion.

Hail The Great Father, Seyla

[AlmightyAeng]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 20 May 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Now let's not get too hasty! The matchmaker adjustments we just made are based in the back-end. There is still a UI element of limiting groups to 3 per class in Groups. We will adjust that element in a future patch, if necessary, based on any comfortable decision we come to with the back-end algorithm.

*let's go of Niko*

Wait...so...it's 4/4/4...but groups dropping together are still bound by a maximum of 3 of one chassis weight?

*sigh*

You're right...I got hasty. I'm gonna trundle back to the stock matches in private games...I'll keep a dry eye peeled to see if anything changes.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 May 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Threat Doc]

One more thing, and maybe you can relay this to them, Niko... why not set an overall tonnage limit for each side, and loosen the full team requirement natural to the game

Lights = 20 - 35 tons each, so 105 tons
Mediums = 40 - 55 tons each, so 165 tons
Heavies = 60 - 75 tons each, so 225 tons
Assaults = 80 - 100 tons each, so 300 tons

For a total of 795 tons per side. With the full team requirement unlocked, as can be done for Private Matching, this means the maximum per side is 795 tons. If a team comes purposely short, they can still only come with a maximum of 12 people, they would be short on tonnage. Unfortunately, with Lights as OP as they are, that would mean Light-ageddon, to borrow the common terminology, here. For those who go to the weight limit, those players are the only ones that would be let into the game, even if it's only 8-man's.

Or, you know, there's still always the Battle Value, which can be determined in the MechLab, saved as total when the modifications of the 'Mech are done, and then added together to help balance BV on each team. That way, even PUG matches could set an open value for BV, rather than being restricted to Elo limits, which would make for more pleasant gaming.

[Sir Trent Howell]

WarHippy, on 20 May 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

When they announced the rule of 3 they gave reasons for why they didn't go with tonnage limits. One of them being it makes it really hard for people to play together and play in whatever mech they want. The original proposal was for a group of 2 to be limited to 120 tons, which would mean if my friend wanted to play in his Boar's head my only choice would be a Locust when I would also prefer to play in a heavier mech. The rule of 3 was the better choice between the two, but neither are good.

You don't need a strict limit like that. As long as the average tonnage between the teams is within 50 tons it doesn't matter if it the tonnage is 500 or 800.

[Ultimax]

Morang, on 20 May 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Were you even visited by obvious idea to add a minimum of 2 so as not to relax it too much and to keep all classes present? Idea "2-4 per weight class" circulated forums a lot since 3/3/3/3 was announced.

Yeah, seriously, this.

2 to 4 per weight class.

Having one team have 0 assaults or another team with massed mobility can be just as disruptive as 6 assaults on a team.


Ending up as the only, slow, assault that gets abandoned by your faster team is also awful.

2 to 4 min/maximums per weight class, seems more flexible and very close to their compromise - just go the extra step.

[Morang]

Ghost Badger, on 20 May 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Whoa...dude...so...like...a full lance of equally tonned mechs? But that resembles...lore...

Lore does not dictate a lance of the same class. While generating random scenarios by Master Rules you only have 1/6 probability to get a homogenous lance classified as Light or Assault and 1/3 probability of Medium or Heavy homogenous lance (it's arbitrary classification of Lances' weight class, needed for random generation of larger scale forces)

Edited by Morang, 20 May 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 20 May 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Now let's not get too hasty!

Oh we won't. Don't worry. No hasting here. Molasses. Like paint drying. Haste makes waste!

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Zhajin, if there were such an award PGI might well have won it for the past two to three years running since the MW IP is responsible for many current and former developers being in the industry at all, not to mention the media folks who cover this industry. Of course, if it's by customer review of the award then EA would probably edge them out, but if peer review, hands down, PGI would "win".

For those who don't believe me? Feel free to watch this patch fail along the same lines as it did before, the same way most of PGIs patches fail.

[Leigus]

Adiuvo, on 20 May 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I'm sure you've guys have already reviewed tonnage limits for groups, but if 3/3/3/3 isn't working out I would love to see group tonnage put in. Groups are the main cause of mech class overload as it is.

Possible group tonnage numbers:
2 Players -- no limits
3 Players -- no min - 220 tons (1 Locust, 2 Atlas; 2 Cataphract, 1 Victor)
4 Players -- 180 tons - 240 tons (Low: 3 Raven, 1 Orion; 4 Blackjack High: 2 Locust, 2 Atlas; 2 Jagermech, 2 Shadowhawk)

[TLBFestus]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 20 May 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

There are many flags we have yet to complete. These are but 35 of a great plethora still to be created.

Honestly, did someone come up with the idea, "Hey, let's make FLAGS and wave them around as a distraction!"?

Sorta like this (Oh, look, an Eagle!);

[Angry Parrott]

3/3/3/3 sounds cool....if i could play!!! 52 mins of queuing not a single drop, changed to different weights no difference would it be quicker in a group...i like playing solo but whats the point of playing a game when all u get is searching screen!!!

[AlmightyAeng]

Morang, on 20 May 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Lore does not dictate a lance of the same class. While generating random scenarios by Master Rules you only have 1/6 probability to get a homogenous lance classified as Light or Assault and 1/3 probability of Medium or Heavy homogenous lance (it's arbitrary classification of Lances' weight class, needed for random generation of larger scale forces)

Dictate, no. Sometimes resemble? Yes. A number of people who enjoy the classis Steiner Scout lance and other 12-man battalion company formats were kinda annoyed *and still are* by the 3/3/3/3 in pubs and free private matches.

[Threat Doc]

Ghost Badger, on 20 May 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Whoa...dude...so...like...a full lance of equally tonned mechs? But that resembles...lore...

Actually, having four of one weight class in a Lance may be lore in certain small places in BT, but the lore actually calls for one of each weight class per Lance, in nearly all circumstances. Imagine trying to program that, though, hehe.