54 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Well, they broke missiles in the 5/20/2014 patch, so you can't use LRM's against the pop-tarters anymore... I'm not sure if that answers the question...

[spectralthundr]

Instead of standing out in the open for the pop tarts to well, pop tart you. Use cover and close, isn't so hard to use tactics and teamwork to over come. The issue is as has already been mentioned, people are far more worried about their precious K/D ratio to actually contribute in most matches these days. Most of the pugs would rather hide behind a hill for half the game til their team is half decimated before even thinking about engaging.

Pop tarts aren't the game's biggest issue, content is.

[CDLord HHGD]

I really don't have a problem with poptarts..... Jump sniping with a single PPC or ACx isn't bad. What does make it bad is the High Pinpoint Alpha Damage (HPAD). Boating weapons that do pinpoint and then constantly alpha (or near alpha) striking isn't what Battletech and Mechwarrior was about.

My proposal is to de-sync ghost heat from same type weapons and instead make it a mechanic of total potential damage sent downrange in any 1/2 second interval. Anything over say 20 points of damage will incur exponentially increasing amounts of extra heat the farther above 20 it goes. Of course the math will have to be done and tested, but this could be a viable solution (also bring LRMs back to 1:1 because they do more potential damage per volley then they are supposed to).

[Damocles69]

Short answer: No

Longer answer: PGI has absolutely no idea how their game works at higher levels, nor are they even slightly familiar with what makes a mech good and what makes a mech unusable. Also the guy in charge of balance (Paul) litteraly has no clue what he is doing and the fact that in their quest for a "minimally viable product" they seemed to have eschewed any form of a work ethic (Byran taking off for Hawaii while the game is in shambles a mere 4 weeks before a major content launch)

This whole experience reeks of amature developers in way over their heads with no way out. Hang on for the ride folks. I can garentee that things will get way way worse before they get marginally better.

[Glory in the Highest]

D34K, on 21 May 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

Allow me to summarise the basic complaints of people who don't like jump sniping; or, more generally, give an overview how scrubs think when it comes to MWO.

QFT, truer words never typed.

[Pygar]

I'd like to see them fix the "only one jump jet needed" thing... other than that, I don't know what else can really be done w/out gimping other direct fire mechs.

[AlmightyAeng]

OP, to answer you:

Edited by Ghost Badger, 22 May 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Working as intended.

There will always be optimal loadouts. Things that kill faster than others. Shame it's significantly better because of the heat system neutering energy heavy builds.

[Rhent]

The Mechromancer, on 20 May 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

i really dont like it.

seems every game its CTF-3D's and Victors dictating how the game goes.

No, Paul lost his virginity while playing a sniper in Halo back in 2002, so his idea of the end all be all game is one in which we have ridiculously high heat cap and ridiculously low heat dissipation leading the the Sniper Fest we are in right now. Poptaring is just one more cherry on the cake.

[Ultimax]

Pygar, on 22 May 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

I'd like to see them fix the "only one jump jet needed" thing... other than that, I don't know what else can really be done w/out gimping other direct fire mechs.

They did for Assaults, and to a lesser extent Heavies.

I don't know what the upper end teams are running, but even 2 JJs seems like the bare minimum for VTR and HGN chassis.

[Lightfoot]

This is fascinating to me because I hear about it, see the videos of it, but never have a problem with it in the game and rarely see it. I just PUG right now, but my teams just steamroll the pop-tart point from the side or from long-range. It's not that good a tactic in MWO and they are prone to LRM damage coming straight down on them.

The only advantage they are getting is vertical movement through an opponent's aim-point and they rely on you to come to a stop in front of them, not too far away and be sitting ducks. So, you never do that. You manuever to their exposed flank or use LRMs and never just sit there or head straight at them. If you counter their vertical movement with lateral movement over the ground you become as hard to hit as they are and you have better aim and firing stability.

[Pygar]

Ultimatum X, on 22 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

They did for Assaults, and to a lesser extent Heavies.

I don't know what the upper end teams are running, but even 2 JJs seems like the bare minimum for VTR and HGN chassis.

Yeah, I tried 12 mans the other day...and going over the builds with people all of them only had one or two JJs, and I was like "Wait...that still works? I thought they fixed/nerfed that..." but sure enough nope, many mechs can still skimp on JJs in favor of bigger guns and jump high enough to do the job. So yeah, that is one possible way PGI could nerf Jump Snipers w/out nerfing everything else in the process.

[LastPaladin]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 May 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

If I can resist the urge to Pop I can safely assume more can.

Sure, people can, but why should we expect them to? I don't do it much, because it's not that fun for me. However, I recognize it is harder for me to wrack up the kills using my non-meta builds even if I have more fun playing them. So, I'm not going to begrudge anyone for going the path of least resistance.

If we want the meta to change, it's going to be up to PGI to make sure other playstyles are just as viable. We can't expect the playerbase to self-enforce against their own self-interest.

[RangerGee412]

A poptarts is the easiest most efficient way to do good OP. That's why you see them alot. If it was extremely difficult to use you wouldn't see them nearly as much.

[zortesh]

The funny thing is other playstles are viable, but require far more teamwork and coordination then jumpsniping... a jump sniper can ignore what there teams doing for the most part and just shoot people.
But you wanna close on a pack of jumpsnipers to murder them? that will require the help of of teammates, which doesn't happen in pug games, they cower behind cover that isn't cover against jumpsnipers and get murdered slowly one at a time.

try to brawl a poptart one on one you will lose, cuz unless there terribad they will get atleast a couple of shots in before you close, and even if you do they do still have crazy good pinpoint damage. lets face it there are maps where there no way to use cover to close fully in, without taking a massive long flanking route that'll cuase your teammates to die without your help fighting., and if the poptart pays attention atall it takes them far less time to reposition and snipe down your new approach lane.

Mostly its a bravery thing in pug games, noone wants to close when they can pick away at enimies from range, even if the enemy is clearly more effective at ranged combat....

I saw alot of jumpsnipers in games yesterday, inexperienced ones thankfully, my team suffered horribly most of the time, but then occasionally you get a brave team and they just go shove there guns down the poptarts thorats and murder them brutally.

I had one especially good example on alpine, had 3 victors a highlander 2 shadowhawks and 2 cataphracts. the catas and highlander were ppc guass the rest were ac/ppc.

We had good lrm support, they defended suacide hill, we drove them back with lrms, thanks to good spotters so they didn't have a chance to shoot at us on the way up, we smashed into them ontop for a big brawl, at which point the highlander and cataracts just flatout ran, and alot of enemies also jumped the cliffs with them after it started going bad, now were 7 to 1... and my team starts attempting to snipe from the top of the cliff... this goes badly for them, nevertheless we end up 8 to 3, lrms boats run out, our team attempt's to charge again but fails at it horribly.

the cataphracts murder them one by one with there poptarting goodness, the match ends pretty much with one banged up atlas and a misery with no armour and 1 medium laser left, versus two shadowhawks, one gets killed off, the other runs away into the snow and shuts down and disconnects ( leaving us to wait out the timer.) i considered it extremely cowardly as he could of killed both the remaining mechs with ease.

Brawling can crush poptarts... but requires more tactics and teamwork to do it... poptarts can just crush anything... as long as the enemy isn't making a coordinated effort at closing.

Sadly the brave pug teams that just blob up move as close as possible then do a all out charge seem very rare.