52 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

I am of the opinion that Clan mechs should be superior to IS mechs, but not to the degree that they were in the TT rules.

There are plenty of ways to balance them without making them equal to IS mechs.

[Pygar]

Bhael Fire, on 21 May 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I am of the opinion that Clan mechs should be superior to IS mechs, but not to the degree that they were in the TT rules.

There are plenty of ways to balance them without making them equal to IS mechs.

Well, the good news is: PGI has some pretty interesting ideas on this that just might work. (I'm not feeling very confident about the DOT thing or the "reverse falloff" thing for missiles right now- but a few of their other ideas sound good.)

The bad news is: It's PGI, who have had their ideas blow up on them a couple times in the past, and worse, in the end it's going to be us that play tests this stuff- a community of people that can be highly critical and has wildly different ideas about balance depending on their point of view.

[cSand]

Hillslam, on 21 May 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Been in BT since it was released in ziplock baggies. Before most of you were born.

Nerfing the clans is the one thing PGI is doing right in a 1-customer-per-mech title.

If this were a top down title where everyone controlled a lance or company of mechs then fine make one set of units more powerful then the other and balance by numbers.

but when every paying customer is sitting in one and just one mech, and the ONLY thing they get to do is shoot other paying customers sitting in other mechs, then, well, whenever I hear some Clanner bleating about how they're not going to get uber gear I say:
"clan mechs for everyone!"

"mix tech everywhere"

because F**K you if you think I'm going to pay to play against boss enemies in ANYTHING but a PVE environment.

PVP ? N.O.P.E.

Grow your larping epeen elsewhere. How about you earn your wins? shoot straight, drive right, earn it.

whining advantage seeking mouth breathers......

[Taffer]

It's already pretty far from TT/lore. I can't wait to see how this goes down.

Tell you what though, if clans were superior, you better believe I (and most players probably) would sell off/ditch IS mechs and just play clan from now on. That is the lamest outcome.

Instead, they are just gonna be new/different but equal/balanced mechs. Okay, in that case, whatever. Let the eternal team deathmatch continue. That outcome is only lame for people who thought they were gonna have OP mechs.

Try not to be too butthurt that your clan mechs aren't better than IS.

[Captain Stiffy]

Pygar, on 21 May 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

So I heard a rumor that last night's missile "nerf" was actually intended for the Clans and not for IS mechs.

Seriously PGI, just stop. You are nerfing a weapon system that isn't even very good in the first place, on a product that is making people angry because they don't want the watered down version, to appease a bunch of people who don't even know what the Clans are in the first place, people who have the game boiled down to the point that less than 1/4 of the mechs and weapons in the game even matter to them, and people who are going to complain anyways regardless of how big or small of an advantage Clan players might have.

So stop it...Just stop. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't at this point anyways-You might as well just release them at full power, because people are going to complain either way- you could at least make the people who are actual Clan fans happy.

Just stop posting about unreleased, unteased content based on rumors. Just stop it... just stop it.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Pygar, on 21 May 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

So I heard a rumor that

this is where I stopped reading.

[Sarlic]

Pygar, on 21 May 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Yeah, they are worried about Clan LRMs because they weigh half as much as IS ones. But maybe instead of nerfing Clan LRMs into the dirt, they should leave them alone and we'll *gasp* actually see LRMs become viable instead of "tournament" games being an AC/20 zerg rush?

And the teams call them selves "competitive gaming". Hahaha.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 May 2014 - 08:30 PM.

[Lightfoot]

I got the Timberwolf back in Feb. and was thinking of getting the Daishi, but I see why there have been no public test of Clan Mechs. They just aren't ready.

PGI kind of lost me with Ghost Heat and the Gauss de-sync. Yes I can see why it was done, what it fixed, but the real solution was to leave gameplay normal and just make the Mechs tougher because..... You never nerf Inner Sphere Tech in preparation for a Clan Invasion!!! I.S. PPCs and Gauss Rifles are mediocre compared to Clan tech so preparing for the Clan Invasion would be to make the Mechs tough enough to stand up to that type of damage level.

I told my friends PGI was nerfing Inner Sphere weapons in preparation for the Clan Invasion and they said, "you can't be serious?", and started laughing when I said it was true. Essentially that's kind of like re-inventing the wheel/ starting from zero, and they knew it.

PGI has adhered to the damage numbers from the weapons, so to do that with Clan tech also the mechs need to be tougher. It will do no good to turn the UACs into streams because everyone just comes straight at you in MWO and the 11 ton LBX20's will also fire a single slug anyway.

Grrrr, Heavy mechs with 3 hardpoints is and omnimech, bug the missiles so they don't work, what about Clan ER Mediums? They still need to sell the Clan mechs at some point, but I am worried about getting burned like what they did to the Phoenix mechs with Ghost Heat and the Gauss desync.

Aww well, at some point PGI needs to back off the nerfs and just let us play MechWarrior. Would Clan superiority be any different from the Ballistic superiority we have right now? Probably no different.

[Aresye]

topgun505, on 21 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

While I play the TT considerably I don't know all of the finer points of clan ethics for combat (aside from zel).

But I do know they hold honor in the highest regard (most of the time).

I can't speak for many, but one of the things I've always enjoyed about MechWarrior is being able to put myself into the lore, fight honorably, and be a good sportsman.

Back in the MechWarrior 3, "MSN Gaming Zone," days, there was an unofficial code amongst most players:
- Let mechs knocked down get back up before firing again.
- No intentional legging (mostly because even slight damage to a leg made the mech fall over).
- No shooting shut down mechs.

Obviously not all players followed those rules, but most of them were because people were on crappy 56k connections back then. Skill was seen in how well you could aim at an invisible target 3-4 mechs ahead of the actual mech (lag shooting). Legging was considered a cheap tactic because it allowed somebody to sweep the invisible space in front of a mech in order to trip a mech, thus giving them the ability to hit the actual mech with no lag shooting required.

Because of this, a lot of players got REALLY, REALLY good at lag shooting, to the point some of them were able to target the cockpits of invisible mechs.

Because of this early introduction to online gaming for myself, I've always viewed skill as a measure of how well a pilot can fight against the odds. If I see a solo pilot making it absolute hell for an entire lance, and even taking a couple of them with them, I see them as a good pilot.

How does this tie into Clan tech? Well it's kind of like nerfing the players themselves.

The proposed balancing ideas essentially equate to, "Clan tech will require more skill to utilize." That's cool. So better players have to essentially work harder to measure up to a lesser skilled player in an IS mech?



On an average night, I like to take my Catapult with 3 ER Large and play it like the poptart meta, which requires me to stay in the air longer, increase my exposure time, AND maintain my crosshair on target through the entire duration of the lasers.

Is it more fun? Hell yeah it's the most fun build I've played with
Is it harder? Definitely. I have to be much more focused in order to do well with it.
Will a poptarting meta pilot of equal skill beat me? Every time.
If my goal is to win, will I take it? Absolutely not. I can contribute much more to the team by taking a meta poptart.

It all boils down to the competitive scene.

Yes, it would be nice if we get CW or something similar in the future for Clans and IS houses to battle it out, but from how it looks like Clan tech will be implemented, Clan mechs will be about as useful in the competitive scene as LRMs.

[Pygar]

Taffer, on 21 May 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

It's already pretty far from TT/lore. I can't wait to see how this goes down.

Tell you what though, if clans were superior, you better believe I (and most players probably) would sell off/ditch IS mechs and just play clan from now on. That is the lamest outcome.

Instead, they are just gonna be new/different but equal/balanced mechs. Okay, in that case, whatever. Let the eternal team deathmatch continue. That outcome is only lame for people who thought they were gonna have OP mechs.

Try not to be too butthurt that your clan mechs aren't better than IS.

I'm more worried that they won't be able to keep pace actually....kind of mentioned that earlier.

It's funny how many people I've tried to talk to on this subject...that believe the Clans are going to come out balanced, when they don't really believe that the game has acceptable balance now.

[Redshift2k5]

Karl Berg actually commented that it was in fact related to explosion frames and not clan range

Edited by Redshift2k5, 22 May 2014 - 12:50 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Grow your larping epeen elsewhere. How about you earn your wins? shoot straight, drive right, earn it.

Clearly, my ability to hit you with beat you to death with my overgunned, overarmored 'Mech vs. the one you chose is OP....

...wait, you mean someone else can pick an assault and outgun me in my heavy? Or a light and move faster? Or a Jenner vs. a Locust?

Smaller in number units who individually have more power is hardly imbalanced- as long as the total matches up. If PGI had the brain cells, Clan forces would have had more firepower offensively but lower "health" defensively due to fewer units and hence, fewer places to slap armor on. I put X amount of firepower into the enemy. They lose Y amount of capacity. If this happens at the same rate whether 5 Clan pilots or 8 IS ones are the enemy, we have ourselves a fair fight.

Yes, I would ask you to please play your uberclantech Timber Wolf. It still dies just as fast as all the Orions I've shot down over the past few months, and if PGI had done it right, I'd have had 2-3 people firing at it thanks to numerical advantages. All that wondertech still generates murderous amounts of heat, the better performance of weapons would have finally forced a global fix to FLD weapons, and Clanners would be in Clan forces, IS pilots in IS ones, instead of turning the Clans into a kludge and nerf-filled bait-and-switch that just parks their giant robots in the 12-man lot with everyone else. They're so bad, you can't even make a Clan unit with them and get a fair fight.

Do remember you can get them with gold paint to cover the disappointment.

Also, I know that advanced age can cause you to forget a few things. LARPers actually do this thing where they see each other in real-time in this magical place called "outside" that has nothing to do with the room in which your computer sits, MechWarrior Online, or giant digital robot battles in general.

These are LARPers.



This is a computer room where one can play MechWarrior Online.



Know the difference. It could save your dignity.

[meteorol]

Pygar, on 21 May 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

So I heard a rumor

And that pretty much invalidates your whole post.
Are you really making assumptions on how clan tech will be based on a line of code that was obviously totally messed up?
What we saw wasn't clantech, it was IS missiles messed up by a line of clantech code.